Discussion in 'sandboxing & virtualization' started by Ghostcloak, Nov 29, 2007.
Im currently using Returnil?
Anybody using Returnil here too? Any opinion would be welcomed.
I have it on my son's computer, passworded, and it seems to be doing fine: His computer has been clean eversince, nothing has apparently got through the sandbox. It doesn't slowdown processes, and it's free for personal use.
How long it will remain free, and survive the tough competition is another thought, although it really doesn't need any updates as a sandbox. It is also fairly tolerant of other applications.
A search at Wilders will give you a number of good threads on Returnil.
Happy user here too. Switched from ShadowUser (that was good but no session lock)
No issues with Returnil. Runs light and does what it purports to do.
Don't bother with the virtual partition. Just session lock when I'm on the web and not wanting to save anything.
If I do, I come out of session lock, reboot and then rely on SafeSpace to protect me.
If only conducting financial transactions I also rely on Online Armor as my other layer of security. Banking Mode only lets me visit sites that I have manually input as trusted.
All three work very well together and at the moment quite happy that this is a pretty secure scenario. I'm no expert though
For the time being with this set up I see no reason to use a signature based application ( i.e currently no AV/AS etc)
One small detail : you cannot test softwares in the frozen mode of Returnil, that require a reboot during the installation, but I don't think that most users are worried about this, except me.
My second layer, SafeSpace, allows you to run downloads in SafeSpace in a virtual envionment should I wish.
I also heard of deep freeze & first defense isr. What is difference between returnil & are they better than returnil or vice virsa. Never tried deep freeze & first defense isr , so I cannot say. Any advice would be appreciated.
Oh I see, I'm not familiar with SafeSpace, but you tried it, so you should know.
It's always like this, when a software has one or more shortcommings, you have to find another solution to fix it, if you want to keep the software.
FirstDefense-ISR has a frozen snapshot and that is the same as DeepFreeze or Returnil.
Some users don't like the frozen snapshot of FDISR, so they combine FDISR with DeepFreeze to replace the frozen snapshot.
A frozen snapshot of FDISR has two major disadvantages : it causes a slower reboot and it requires more space on your harddisk. Older computers have more problems with FDISR, than powerful computers.
The difference between FDISR and DeepFreeze/Returnil is TOO BIG and is totally different. FDISR is closer to RollbackRx, but not the same as RollbackRx.
DeepFreeze and Returnil are SIMPLE, FDISR and RollbackRx require a longer learning curve.
Deep Freeze is not an ISR product. This was clarified to me by Faronics some years ago. DF does not create an image or snapshot, in the sense that these other products do. All it does is to restore the frozen partition(s) to previous state on reboot.
ISR means Immediate System Recovery, ISR has nothing to do with FDISR or snapshots. So Deepfreeze = ISR-software.
OK, thanks for the clarification. I thought IS=ImageSnapshot which I thought I had seen mentioned in another thread...
My earlier reference was to when ShadowUser was released, and there was some discussion as to whether or not DF created an image or snapshot.
I call them all ISR-softwares, but their method to return to the previous state is usually different.
FDISR use snapshots and archives to do this and that is indeed the slowest method.
I don't know about the rest, but when I ever use them, I will try to find out. Returnil seems to use RAM, others probably a virtual container, etc., but the final result is always the same : back to the previous state.
Some of them restore more than one partition, others work with a virtual environment or real environment, some go from normal to frozen mode without reboot, but those are just small details to meet certain needs of the user.
I never use images regarding ISR-softwares. Images are typical for Image Backup softwares, it's already confusing enough.
Returnil is a pleasure to use if the reboot factor can be tolerated,which it cant if testing software which requires this,or for casual use.
Otherwise,the more complex SafeSpace or Forcefield are excellent for browsing only,whilst Altiris can be used for intermittent testing,as can Rollback.
Which is really better then, Returnil,or Deep Freeze or First Defense ISR?
It does help if you specify usage!!
If you are just surfing the web and dont mind rebooting to exit etc-Returnil is the one to use-simplest and free.
If the reboot annoys you- try out SafeSpace or Forcefield,both freeware but more complicated
Otherwise,keep it simple! Just stick to Returnil
The others for a start are shareware.
FDISR and Rollback take snapshots for restoring to a previous state-good for software testing.
The king of POSSIBILITIES is without any doubts : FirstDefense-ISR.
Returnil and DeepFreeze are just boot-to-restore solutions and both are faster than FDISR.
Keep in mind that FDISR Workstation is terminated although it will take at least 5 years, maximum 10 years, before FDISR will disappear.
I don't know RollbackRx very well, but according member "Markymoo" RBRx has the same possibilities as FDISR and RBRx is much faster too. I hope that all problems are fixed now in the latest release. Markymoo found also an acceptable solution to backup/restore ALL RBRx-snapshots.
It depends on what you want multiple snapshot or not, speed, volume, ...
I stick to FDISR as long as possible and alot can happen during 5-10 years.
I favor speed as well as anyone, but i don't mind the small trade-off of waiting a bit longer with FD-ISR as it's 100% STABLE as a rock plus BUILDS/DUPLICATES "Complete" systems of all physical(files/folders/settings etc.), whereby RollbackRx users have suffered continuous issues with those HDS versions causing everything from losing prior snapshots to failing to even boot at all from it's "ONE" baseline. Is it fixed yet? Don't care.
I happen to have just made it in the nick of time with the Genuine FirstDefense program with "ALL" features before it changed distributorships and is now subsequently stripped.
Since this is a "RETURNIL" topic i might add it seems a very stable app and ridiculously simple, what more could any user ask for in a Free!
I have been using it for about a week and a half on one of my partitions and so far am impressed with it as it has not caused any problems. Very good concept.
I think I will try some of the other apps mentioned in this thread on my other partitions.
To keep you impressed :
The trick here is to find the small differences.
These are totally different (multiple snapshots) :
- BackOnTrack Suite
- Rollback Rx + clones, like Eaz-Fix, ...
Here are some more virtualization apps. just to confuse the issue even further.
As said before Returnil is flawless plus its FREEWARE and simple,as compared to a lot of the others.
If a snapshot solution is being considered- Rollback has a new update version 8 (10 Sept 07) and it works very well-no problems at all - has all the features that could be wanted.The rollback reversion is very fast.
Returnil might be flawless, but is too simple and can't do everything. Freeware or payware is not an issue for me, I don't look at the price to evaluate a software.
According my readings Rollback Rx v8.1 had still a freezing problem, which was recently reported in the FirstDefense-ISR forums. So far I never heard of a flawless version of RBRx, there is always something wrong.
You might gain time with RBRx, but you lose all that time, when you have to fix RBRx. Once I have the time, I will test RBRx myself and see how good it really is compared with FDISR. One big problem, a trial of 15 day is way too short and I'm not going to buy it before I know it's worth its money. Wasn't there an activation problem also ?
i have just got in returnil and its great for me, especially when my computer shuts down for no good reason and then comes on again and stays on, although this time it stayed on instead of going off again but i lost my content of film download and it brought back my previos stuff whitch i had deleted, i had tried to turn off the system as the instructions said i should, but i might of done something wrong somewhere.
If the frozen mode is activated and you reboot, Returnil will restore your harddisk to a previous state and undoes every action you did and that is NORMAL.
If you want to keep something you have to store it on another partition or the Virtual Partition of Returnil. I also have to do this when I'm using my frozen snapshot in FDISR.
My advice is : start with small changes and put Returnil in frozen mode or thawed mode and see what happens with these changes.
Freeware or shareware may well be a consideration for the people who read your posts and when you say the trick is to find the small differences.
I thought we were trying to advise others ,not talking about ourselves.
The simplicity is its beauty for a lot of people-of course it cant do everything-very few of the virtualization apps. can!
This is not a thread about Rollback v FDISR,which has been discussed ad nauseaum-if you havent even tried the latest version- can you really give an opinion?.
There is absolutely no activation or freezing problem for me and the trial time period surely is not a problem for a lot of people, I can decide about this sort of matter within days.
I am sure if you try hard enough, a problem could be found,just as I could find them in FDISR,which wouldn't detract from the fact that its eminently successful in achieving its purpose.
For me the ideal combination is Acronis + Returnil.
For Daily use I have Returnil protection on. when I want to test something that requires a reboot I simply make an image of C: depending on the machine I use this takes between 1 and 5 minutes. I like to keep C: on the light side - and don't use bloatware. Then I run the software and finally restore C:
If what FD-ISR users would call a snap shot is required I just restore the required image of C: from an external drive. I find that 4 or five full images suffice.
So most of the fancy stuff done by FD-ISR can be done by any imaging program. The benefit that Returnil adds is that each version of C: can be set up the way that I want and then kept that way.
Without Returnil I would probably still be using FD-ISR. Returnil and Acronis combined suits my needs better mainly because full images are quick and simple to make and Returnil is simple and rock solid.
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