Returnil

Discussion in 'sandboxing & virtualization' started by biatche, May 14, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Coldmoon

    Coldmoon Returnil Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2006
    Posts:
    2,981
    Location:
    USA
    Hello Genady,
    Thank you for your kind words as they are greatly appreciated. You make a great observation about how RVS also helps to protect your privacy. It was a wonderful free "extra" for using memory as opposed to HDD cloning.

    William
    We will leave this decision to the user. The main difference between the Business and Personal Editions is is that we offer direct product support for Business Edition customers.
     
  2. BlueZannetti

    BlueZannetti Registered Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2003
    Posts:
    6,590
    Coldmoon,

    Just a bit of clarification for the privacy mavens...., does RVS leave footprints in the HDD free space or are all content manipulations/transactions handled on the virtual drive?

    and some kudos - on a short test drive thus far - this does seem to be a quite nice application that performs it's main function in a very straightforward fashion and in what seems to be a robust manner.

    Blue
     
  3. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2003
    Posts:
    20,590
    Hi Genady

    There is another cool privacy thing. Don't use the tool bar, and don't have the virtual partition mount on windows boot, but just mount it when you need it. Then password protect the gui, and you can use the virtual partition as a hidden vault. Really cool.

    Pete
     
  4. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2003
    Posts:
    20,590
    Hi MIke

    I kind of found the toolbar annoying. I'd rather have those options as right click features of the systray. But actually for use as privacy tool, I also like keeping the mount/dismount in the gui, which you can password protect. Of course if it was in the systray, you could also password protect those options.

    Pete
     
  5. EASTER.2010

    EASTER.2010 Guest

    Yes, that is pretty cool extra. There are some programs i've used that do the same thing. I believe in Returnil's case it's meant specifically to address the need for the user to SAVE data while Protection = "On". LoL

    I am experiencing a marked delay at reboot that has my undivided attention ATM. In Power Shadow even after several hours of session or several software installs it can take time to eradicate and dump from disk the virtualized data, but since Returnil makes use of MEMORY as opposed to DISK i would have expected a faster response then i'm seeing so far.

    It's still too early to etch it in stone as an obvious limitation but over these next several days/nights i should be able to fully determine these differences more precisely as whether theres a trade-off of time/delay for the Memory protection virtualization.

    One thing is clear, you can boot into Disc virtualization with PowerShadow at any given moment in time (true On-The-Fly) without a reboot, whereas with Returnil a reboot is REQUIRED.
     
  6. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2003
    Posts:
    20,590
    See post in the other thread. Reboot isn't required. Use session lock.

    Pete
     
  7. EASTER.2010

    EASTER.2010 Guest

    Important Notes: Using Session Lock does not require a reboot of your computer! It does however require a reboot to deactivate the System Protection feature. Additionally, Session Lock is available only if System Protection is currently OFF

    Duh, thanks Pete.
     
  8. WindBlade

    WindBlade Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2007
    Posts:
    58
    Hmm.. So whats the difference between SessionLock and System Protection?

    Am I right to say

    SessionLock = System Protection without reboot?

    System Protection = System Protection WITH reboot?

    being the only difference?
     
  9. EASTER.2010

    EASTER.2010 Guest

    I believe your spot on WindBlade with that assessment.
     
  10. EASTER.2010

    EASTER.2010 Guest

    I,ve Uninstalled Returnil and my boots have returned to normal. There is an obvious BUG in Returnil current release that causes it to inhibit normal booting on my XP.
     
  11. kennyboy

    kennyboy Registered Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2006
    Posts:
    431
    OK. So have installed Returnil with a VM. Several questions come to my mind, but most of them are probably showing my lack of knowledge, so bear with me if you will.

    1. Resources. - As Returnil is running in memory, I would have expected to see a big hit in the the amount of free memory left on my system, but...I don't. When in System Protected Mode(On), it seems to use very little. How is this?

    2. Appearance. - After being used to VMWare and the fact that the VM machine is very visible and "in your face" it is a bit of a shock NOT to see much visible in Returnil. Only reason I know it is working is the little Icon in the taskbar. This not a complaint, just a surprise.

    3. Compatibility (1). - Do I understand correctly that each FDISR snapshot/archive will now require a) Its own installation of Returnil, and b) another virtual machine, and doesnt this mean that any data kept on one virtual machine will have to be duplicated on each further VM.

    Compatibility (2). - Are there any issues with Imaging programs (ATI and Paragon etc) in that imaging an entire disk would now include a VM partition. In fact, is it possible to image this drive? If the VM partition is there to keep data, then it would be wise to image it also, but this would mean keeping the partition mounted..........wouldn't ito_O Not sure my self now.......lol

    Compatibility (3). - Assuming the VM partition to be on the same disk as C:, what would happen when needing to partition that drive in the future? Would there be any issues with doing this, and would it be better to do it with the VM mounted or not?

    Any thoughts appreciated.

    Ken
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2007
  12. WindBlade

    WindBlade Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2007
    Posts:
    58
    But if that is indeed the case, why the use of 2 different names for essentially the same feature? Is "Session Lock" then just a marketing term?

    I mean, i'm sure there are other differences?
     
  13. Franklin

    Franklin Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2005
    Posts:
    2,517
    Location:
    West Aussie
    SessionLock - Returnil activates and is inactive after reboot.

    System Protection - Returnil is auto activated at reboot?(I think)

    Working fine here on vista ultimate with no perceptible slowdowns anywhere.
     
  14. Riverrun

    Riverrun Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Posts:
    376
    Location:
    ~
    Hi Windblade. Haven't had a chance to assess the program yet as I installed it late last night and I'm actually at work now.

    I think that the Session Lock extends protection to all logged in users. Perhaps, and I'm just speculating here, System Protection Mode is more limited in effect and require each new user to activate it afresh?
    I'm sure Mike will clear this issue up.
     
  15. Riverrun

    Riverrun Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Posts:
    376
    Location:
    ~
    One mistake I made during installation is that I allocated too much space to the VP (nice feature BTW) and I'm wondering if I can resize without re-installing?

    Will uninstalling the program delete the VP also? I imagine that it will but I just want to make sure.

    I only had a few bare minutes to look at the program last night but one thing puzzled me, for a program that operates in RAM it's using very little memory, < 3MB if I recall. Why is that?

    Congrats Mike, this looks like a winner.
     
  16. Franklin

    Franklin Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2005
    Posts:
    2,517
    Location:
    West Aussie
    Hooked up one of my xp drives and installed Returnil after I uninstalled PS.

    Did mount the virtual drive but I realised there was no need as I have other partitions so just unticked the option.

    Things are just so much quicker here with Returnil compared to PS that it's a keeper here atm.

    One thing I did notice whilst in virtual mode is that my PC tools v1 threw up no warning when I hit check for updates in the gui.
     
  17. Riverrun

    Riverrun Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Posts:
    376
    Location:
    ~
    I suppose it's possible to save date to the D: drive, since it's unprotected, the same as one would while running PS in single shadow mode?

    The ability to lock the VP is a really neat feature!
     
  18. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2003
    Posts:
    20,590
    Hi Ken.

    I'll answer what i can.

    1. THis I have no idea.
    2. I wouldn't think imaging would be a problem at all. My hunch is it would be wise to dismount the partition first. At that point it is just another file on your c: drive and imaging and defrag are not an issue as far as I can tell.
    If you image the "file" that represents the partition even though dismounted any data in the partition is safe. It's just part of the file.

    3. same as 2. Yes I would dismount. Also dismounting the drive doesn't
    harm any data you have on it. It's just hidden.

    Pete
     
  19. Riverrun

    Riverrun Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Posts:
    376
    Location:
    ~
    A more thorough perusal of this thread has answered the query.

    It's possible to save data to the D:\ just the same as PS.
     
  20. Coldmoon

    Coldmoon Returnil Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2006
    Posts:
    2,981
    Location:
    USA
    Hi,
    There is alot to catch up on - long post warning...

    BlueZannetti asked:
    First you need to understand that there are two distinct and seperate features here. The first is the System Protection which clones a copy of your System Partition in memory, the second is the Virtual Partition that uses a file to simulate a physical partition on your HDD. RVS does not use free disk space on the HDD to save or manipulate the clone

    Peter2150 said:
    Pete,
    The Toolbar is there as a visual option to supplement the Tray Icon. If you are using the access protection password to lock the GUI, you need to open RVS, enter the password, then use the GUI features. Also the Tray Icon will be hidden (if you have this activated in Windows) if it has been a long time since you accessed RVS or used any of the features.

    We thought about this for quite some time after the first Beta was released for 1.62 and decided that this could be a hinderance if the user needs to activate the Session Lock in a hurry. This is why the Toolbar floats above all open Windows. The way I use it is to place it on a part of the desktop that will always be where my browser titlebar is located (slightly to the right of its default location when first started). So if in doubt, I can just move my cursor up the the TB and turn ON Session Lock without trying to focus on finding and using the Tray Icon.

    It also allows me to mount and dismount the VP quickly. This is very useful when using more than one VP (changing between an active RVSYSTEM.img and an archived or transported VP for example).

    We also realized that not everyone was going to like using it so we included a preference option that allows you to turn the Toolbar off by default. There is also a similar option for the Tray Icon. This means you can use both at the same time, one at a time, or not use either one at all.

    WindBlade asked:
    Yes, but with some clarification needed. The name of the feature was chosen to aide the user in understanding its function and what happens when using either one.

    When you Turn System Protection ON, you are making a change to your default preferences. This does require a reboot and protection will be ON for all users at Windows boot.

    Session Lock is used to denote that the System Protection is ON for all users, but only during the current boot session. This means that System Protection is ON until you reboot your computer to reset to your default preferences.

    Easter said:
    We are watching this but will need some more information to adequately address it if it is not due to proper function. You mentioned that you are using an extremely customized setup with a specialized boot manager.

    To see where something is causing a slow down, I would start looking at whether there is any conflict between this custom setup and the MBR protection.

    1) Does this happen every time (including VM sessions) or does it only happen in a real OS install?

    2) Does your custom setup have an MBR protection feature other than what is already in RVS?

    3) Does this only happen at Windows boot? That is, does this also occur at system shutdown? If yes, does it happen everytime?

    Mike
     
  21. Franklin

    Franklin Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2005
    Posts:
    2,517
    Location:
    West Aussie
    Getting errors here when attempting an offline defrag with Perfect Disk 7.

    RN inactive.

    On an old test hard drive RN showed two errors at reboot after locking in an offline defrag and PD was unable to do an offline defrag with a driver conflict error.

    Tested again in a vm with RN showing those same errors on a blue screen/white print but PD seemed to be able to do the offline defrag.

    XP pro sp2

    P4 HT, 3ghz, 1 gig ddr
     
  22. Coldmoon

    Coldmoon Returnil Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2006
    Posts:
    2,981
    Location:
    USA
    Hello kennyboy,
    You cover allot of ground so need to reply to your post by itself:

    I have discussed this in this thread, but for quicker reference, I would point you towards our website FAQ:

    http://www.returnilvirtualsystem.com/index_files/faqs.htm#8
    Compatibility question
    I cannot answer specific questions regarding FD-ISR. However, I think I can help to clear this up a bit.

    You will need to install a copy of RVS on each OS in a multi-boot configuration. Therefore, if you have for example a system that will allow you to boot into XP or Vista, then you would need to have RVS installed in both the XP and Vista system partitions.

    RVS is not drive specific; this means that if you have XP on C:\ and Vista on F:\, RVS will provide protection for the currently booted %s. Therefore, when using XP in this example, RVS is protecting C:\, in Vista it is protecting F:\.

    Pete makes a good point in his reply and I would only add that imaging is usually saved on an alternate partition for obvious reasons, so you should have no issues creating backup images.

    For best results here, I would suggest the following:

    1) Dismount the VP
    2) Turn OFF System Protection if ON
    3) Make a backup of the VP by moving it to an alternate drive with adequate storage space
    4) Repartition as needed
    5) Move the VP back to the root folder
    6) Re-mount the VP if desired

    A cautionary note here: You need to pay close attention to the size of the VP. As an example, I like to have several backups (made during various installations over time - RVSYSTEM.img.ol1, ...img.ol2, etc) that are relatively small in size compared to the max size I could create on my HDD; Usually around 1 to 1.5 GB. This makes it easier to move, transport, etc. YMMV
     
  23. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2003
    Posts:
    20,590
    Hi Mike

    I have only one thing to say about the toolbar vs systray option.

    NICE TOUCH!

    Pete
     
  24. BlueZannetti

    BlueZannetti Registered Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2003
    Posts:
    6,590
    Mike,

    Thanks.

    The reason I mentioned free space is that I performed a quick surfing test to some websites that had no footprint on this system and when I took a peek at things, at least some of the disk sectors where this surfing activity was apparent were labelled as free space (as opposed to the RVSYSTEM.IMG file).

    Just a minor point in the event anyone had assumed from some of the comments above that no information regarding a surfing/transaction session could be fished from a hard drive, i.e. the privacy advantages are not quite there, but that wasn't a design objective either. On the other hand, perhaps this would be a useful feature enhancement to consider sometime in the future (i.e. content for designated applications restricted to RAM or wiped from hard drive).

    Blue
     
  25. Coldmoon

    Coldmoon Returnil Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2006
    Posts:
    2,981
    Location:
    USA
    Hello Blue,
    My first question is whether the "footprints" are still there after a reboot with System Protection/Session Lock ON?

    The second would be to ask for a clarification of what the "footprints" are. Thanks and we will check this out.

    Mike

    Edit: Additional question

    Can you provide the steps necessary to reproduce this? Thanks again...
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.