Returnil

Hi Easter,

Yes, When System Protection is OFF you will be using your real HDD and all changes will remain following a reboot. Mounting/dismounting and use of the Virtual Partition is not affected by the System Protection mode or change of mode.

The best encouragement I could offer is the reaction of a user the first time they are rescued from disaster because they had RVS or similar protection installed. Another motivation is the fact that your cleanup team has access to solutions that will provide those they spent countless hours helping with a means to keep their computers clean...

Sadly, we both continue to see more and more people struggling with Malware on a daily basis (not to mention those who have this happen to them more than once). I am constantly amazed and shocked to see the sheer volume of HJT logs and people asking for help when there are solutions available that could have prevented thier disaster in the first place.

I completely reject all the FUD about virtualization being too difficult to use, or not being a mature technology, or not relevant or useful for the Home user. This is wrong and all of us in this space are proving it everytime a new user discovers options like RVS, PS, DF, VMware, etc.

Virtualization is not a silver bullet, but it can be the one tool in the closet that saves the day when all else has failed, especially when you are unlucky enough to be the one who gets infected before your favorite avtivirus/antiMalware solution has had a chance to release the signature update you need.

 

Thanks many times over for this clarification. This On-The-Fly switching from/to virtualization is critical to point out and cannot be expressed enough IMO. Excellent feature i must say.

.

I know, it's simply intolerable that so many users are left gaping in the dark when like you said, REAL & SAFE solutions are very present in the here and now.

Totally agree. Virtualization is very relevant to today's PC safety successes in much the same way as Recovery/Rollback Apps and to a certain extent even imaging apps have proven to be when needed.

I'll use my own daily practice as an example. Sure i keep images like most who adhere to a secure backup plan for their systems, but i don't expect to roll them out for a restore everytime a software install goes horribly wrong or some malware has slipped under the shieldings. That consumes some time and plus other factors that add to it.
A very strong and dependable Rollback app like FD-ISR can prove beneficial also for such as these occurances when even your security apps might fail or again a bad program install.
But Virtualization offers IMO by far the best overall coverage against those problems. Yes, while i currently and for some time use Power Shadow to umbrella my snapshots, i can see great benefits with the flexibility Returnil provides, and not only on-the-fly switching in and out which i personally favor highly, but also usage of MEMORY as opposed to disk as you pointed out earlier in your introduction descriptions for us.

So with that said, many thanks for this particular reply, and the many more to follow as more users become attracted to this new innovation/technique.

EASTER

 

As strange as it may seem, testers have prefered to use the support@returnilsoftware.com address. This has not been an issue for our development team so you can use that or send to me directly (michael (AT) returnilsoftware (DOT) com) and I will forward it to them straight away.

We can't fix something we don't know about, so please feel free to use whichever method is most convenient for you and thank you for your efforts.

____
Mike

 

What's the current prognosis on Returnil's debut Coldmoon?

 

Hi,
We are getting closer. We had to address some issues first which can be seen below:

New Build Available

http://www.majorgeeks.com/download5451.html

1.62.4076

Updated:

* Product name changed to Returnil Virtual System Business Edition

Fixed:

* Corrected "Write Delay" issue experienced by some XP users with Duel Core processors
* Correction added to address hibernation recovery issues on some Laptops
* Added logic to address low-level disk change issue

A big thank you to flinchlock for his low-level disk change test!
____
Mike

 

After reading all 5 pages of posts and the torture tst by Pete, I have to say I'm quite impressed byu the level of support offered by Mike aka ColdMoon..

I have not tried Returnil yet but do have some questions that crossed my head after reading all the above posts so forgive me if some of my questions seem dumb..

1) If Returnil cached all changes etc. in RAM, wouldn't a large amount of RAM be used? For example, after installation of say Adobe Photoshop?

2) You mentioned "The main mission of the VP is to allow a convenient means for the user to save their data while using the protection feature." So, the VP would essentially be "useless" if say I a dedicated Data Partition or Disk? Are there any other use of the VP other than to store data?

3) Lets say you tried a Software with System Protection ON and decided to keep it.. Is there any to commit changes done instead of rebooting to restore the original configuration and then reinstalling the software?

4) What is this Session Lock feature?

5) If I do a Defrag on my System with System Protection on, will the effects of the Defrag be present after a reboot? Since data is effectively moved around, it should not be present?

6) Is there an assurance that
a) Turning on or off "Shadow" mode without reboot
b) Support for changes made surviving reboot
be will both be implemented in the next version of Returnil (as in the version after 2007)?
And if so, does the retail price of $29.90 include support and upgrades to future major versions of returnil?

7) From all the response about returnil highlighting its Pros and the openess of Mike in his response, can we see a response of the "Cons" of Returnil as compared to its competitors such as ShadowUser, PowerShadow, DeepFreeze (did I miss anyone out) that uses system virtualization technology?

Other thant he superb support i've seen here and the fact that it uses memory instead of disk, what are the "Pros" of Returnil compared to its competitors? I guess one of it would be support for Vista? What about lower CPU utlization and memory footprint?

9) So far, are there any known issues or compatibility problems with Returnil?

Thanks..

 

One advantage that Returnil has over PS ,as far as I'm concerned is that there is someone on the other end of the questions. With PS there doesn't seem to be any support or any one interested in helping. A shame in a way.

 

Quite liking Returnil.

It seems as good as, if not slightly better than PS mainly on how quickly it goes into action.

I put a shortcut of the storage volume on desktop then dragged and dropped into the "Sendto" folder.Now I can right click and save whatever whilst in virtual mode.

 

Thanks Pete for the informative reply..

Well, I'm kinda looking at simply using RVS for testing simple sotware to see that I like the software... FDISR doesn't work as I am using a MultiBoot setup where my boot volume is C:\ while my Windows is installed in D:\... or Rollback, I've heard quite some bad comments from the forum here..

Yea.. think Mike could talk more on this.. It seems quite illogical to put all files in Memory if you are installing programs like Adobe Photoshop to test its capabilities etc. etc.

Isn't that the System Protection? Or is Session Lock the name of the feature of turning on Protection without rebooting?

hmm.. I do see a post previosuly by Mike that they have some ideas regarding this and they will try and implement it in the next version after 2.62..

Well, I'm more of looking at the "cons", if any, compared to the rest of its competitors..

Thanks

 

Hello and sorry for the late reply. I see that Peter has covered quite a bit of information so will try to be as brief as I can.

WindBlade asked:

The actual amount of RAM used to store and update the clone in memory is very small unless what you are doing requires an extreme amount of RAM.; So extreme that you would be at the point of system stress or about to exceed your computer's physical limitations. What you are likely to see at this point is a general system slow-down, as you would expect from computing on the extreme edge of your capabilities.

Peter said in response to this question:

This is true but for Returnil to actually be forced to do this would mean your system is so overloaded that it would be useless at this point anyways.

WindBlade was overheard asking:

No, it would not be useless, but would offer you a redundant save location. In addition, where your alternate partition cannot be transported easily, you can transport the VP (provided you have media large enough) to another computer with RVS installed where you can simply select to mount this transported VP through the RVS interface. Cautions here:

1) You need RVS installed on the other computer to do this
2) The VP must be saved within your root Returnil folder to be mounted
3) The mounted VP must always be named RVSYSTEM.img

You can store backup copies of the VP within the Root Returnil folder but they must be saved as something like RVSYSTEM.img.old for example. Further, you can store saved data in a backup of the VP file and said data cannot be seen or accessed unless you have RVS installed and the VP mounted.

Pete said and I emphasize:

As Returnil is keeping changes from being made to the real HDD, a defrag with protection ON can have unexpected results. Always turn protection OFF when you want to do this. Also, as has been shown through the now famous HP Recovery application install with other products, use a full featured test environment such as VMWARE or MS to test software that requires a reboot.

We also recommend the following BEFORE you install RVS for best performance of both the program and your system:

1) Defrag you HDD as this will make RVS run most efficiently
2) Make sure your system is totally clean! I cannot emphasize enough that RVS (or similar) will not protect you if you are already infected!

WindBlade asked:

No, Returnil does not include a backup imaging feature. We are however exploring ideas internally for such a function. This will take some time to make ready for a general Beta release and is scheduled for later in the 1.XX or 2.XX series. We are also getting ready for the following over the next several months:

1) New product to be introduced for Public Beta testing following soon after the final release of 1.62
2) New public Beta series for Returnil to explore new features and feature requests

WindBlade also asked:

The Session Lock feature is a temporary activation of the System Protection during the current logon session. It will affect all users logged into the computer at the same time, but will not override the default System Protection Mode preference. This means that when you use Session Lock, Protection will be ON for all users until the computer is rebooted which will cause Returnil to revert to default, user selected preferences.

WindBlade:

There will be more information following this post today or tomorrow regarding Returnil licensing etc. First, Returnil Virtual System Business Edition will still be $24.95 USD single copy price. Second, all registered customers will receive free upgrades and customer support during their license period.

We have already addressed “A” in the form of turning System Protection ON without reboot in the form of the Session Lock feature. Turning OFF System Protection without a reboot is not a trivial thing to solve and is because of limitations/restrictions in the OS rather than in the software itself. Remember, Microsoft itself requires a system reboot for some critical patches and hotfixes...

WindBlade also asked:

While I do not think there is anything close to perfect software, I will say that we have, and will continue, to strive towards such a goal. For now, I would say that there are features we want to include that we do not yet include. Whether this be in RVS itself or in a new product specifically designed to address the particular function in question.

1) Turning OFF system protection without a reboot – we see this as a high priority but it will take time to realize. This is also a limitation in other similar products so I would say it is more of an industry negative rather than a specific product negative. Debate regarding this however is greatly appreciated, as it will help make all the products that much better.
2) A robust and efficient Restore imaging and system backup/recovery feature or separate solution. Though we do have solutions, these solutions are not yet ready for Public Testing, as there is much yet to do as regards user manuals, language translations, and a final structure determination.
3) More to be revealed later

I would also say at this point that the user has a better ability to determine what the pros and cons are by trying each solution to see which works best for them. While we can debate what I see and you see as essential, it is the user that moves development and not the developers or marketing people. As long as you tell us what you need and want, we will work hard to develop the solutions you want.

WindBlade asks a very important question:

First, see my previous replies as much of this may be answered already in one form or another. The next is with OS compatibility that I have already mentioned but feel it is important to emphasize here. Returnil builds above 1.62 are no longer compatible with W2K and W2K server. So please make note that 1.62.XXXX+ versions have the following minimum requirements:

Minimum System Requirements

* Note: A good rule of thumb to keep in mind and as a further answer to your memory questions, "If Windows can, so can RVS". This means that if you have enough memory to use your OS efficiently, you can use RVS efficiently.

Operating System: Microsoft® Windows® XP/ 2003 Server/ Vista 32-bit

Processor by OS:
XP: 300 MHz
2003 Server: 750 MHz
Vista: 800 MHz

Memory by OS:
XP: 128 MB
2003 Server: 128 MB
Vista: 512 MB

Hard Disk: 25 MB free HDD space (minimal configuration)

------------
With kind regards
Mike

 

Hello William,
Thank you for the kind words. Virtualization as an accepted and widely used technology will be much harder to realize without a contiuous and substantive dialog between the vendors, the security community, and the users. We want to be the catalyst that forces this discussion into the public arena and thus benefit everyone who does not use or have access to advanced forums like Wilder's, or has no idea what Virtual technology actually is rather than thinking about the last Virtual this or that science fiction movie...

 

WindBlade,
Sorry for missing this in my previous post:

You will need to install RVS within each of the separate OSs. For example, if you are using a duel-boot XP/Vista 32 bit setup, install Returnil in each OS as RVS will not provide protection for partitions other than the currently booted OS's %s and the MBR.

With this setup, you will also need a separate VP within each of the OS's as the VP is restricted to the %s in question. This means you should be careful when creating the specific VP so you take account of your total HDD space. A good thing to keep in mind here is that the installation wizard will tell you the maximum size the VP can be on your system and will not anticipate or detect the existence of another OS on the system.

 

Coldmoon ,I am in the process of trying Returnil and found that with the VP setup, defragmenting with PerfectDisk 8 was out of the question. Not really interested in the VP so I got rid of it. Now I can defrag.

 

William,
Thanks for the heads up and we will look into any issues with PD 8.

 

Hi Pete and William,
You do not have to go through that much effort. Click the "V" button in the toolbar and you can dismount/mount the VP on-the-fly...

 

Great work on this application. Very impressive!

One thing I haven't read much discussion about are the obvious benefits for computer/Internet privacy. The system partition running in memory obviously puts index.dat and many other things (registry MRUs, etc) out to pasture, without even leaving traces of a virtualization "snapshot" (whatever you want to call it depending on the program) on your hard drive.

Kudos to all at Returnil, and especially to Mike, for taking so much time in offering so much assistance in this forum. That in itself is unusual and impressive.

Genady

 

Hi guys .I am not going to use the VP anyway so I didn't load it on the set up. Sure do appreciate the free program. Is there any advantage to the paid version for a home system? I don't mind paying if there is reason.