Restoring System Partition ?

Discussion in 'Paragon Drive Backup Product Line' started by JosephB, Aug 12, 2010.

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  1. JosephB

    JosephB Registered Member

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    Confused about one aspect of Restoring - System Partiton Backup Image Archive:

    Questons:

    1. When Restoring a System Partition, from a Backup Image Archive (containing only the system partiton object), will DB10 Pro - Restore the MBR also during the process of Restoring the System Partition ??


    2. If yes, does it Restore the MBR with a default MBR that it creates ??

    -- OR --

    Did DB10 Pro actually Backup My Hard Drive's MBR, by automatically including (even though I did not check the MBR object when creating the backup image archive) the MBR in the Backup Image Archive of the System Partiton, when the Backup Image Archive was created ?
     
  2. Mech_An

    Mech_An Registered Member

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    1. No. If only system partition is selected to restore, MBR will stay intact.
    Maybe you are talking about HDD backup where system partition is located?
    2. Restore overwrites existing MBR and reverts MBR to to state it was saved.

    If only partition is selected to backup, MBR is not automatically included.
     
  3. JosephB

    JosephB Registered Member

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    Mech_An,

    I just did a search in this Forum on MBR, in order to learn about any issue involving MBR's that I should be aware of and when I read the below thread by Raza0007 it confused me regarding the question I asked about restoring system partiton because it implies to me the opposite of what you indicated in the answer to my MBR questions. So, now I am really confused.

    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=261726

    In post 3, reply by Raza0007, he stated:

     
  4. Mech_An

    Mech_An Registered Member

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  5. JosephB

    JosephB Registered Member

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    Mech_An,

    I do not find DB 10 Pro version specifically on the list of applicable products in the knowledgebase article.

    .... It sure would be great, for reassurance, if Paragon_Tommy could confirm one way or the other on this question.
     
  6. Mech_An

    Mech_An Registered Member

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  7. JosephB

    JosephB Registered Member

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    Mech_An,

    Okay. Great, so this is resolved specifically ---> MBR is not automatically backed up, when creating a backup acrhive where you only selected to backup the the system partition.


    ... Now, if you can answer my additional questions below, I will then understand the big complete picture of everything i need to understand.

    Additional Questions:


    1. If I understand correctly, you are saying that whenever DB10 Pro - Restores a Backup Archive consisting of only a "System Partiton" Backup Image, DB10 Pro will perform an "Update MBR" ?


    2. I assume am "Update MBR" means that it DB10 Pro creates a default MBR, when it restores a system partition only backup image archive ?


    3. So, if my pc has on it, either one of the following:

    A) An MBR that was modified by my pc vendor to allow pressing F11 to access my pc's Hidden OEM - Recovery Partition

    B) In the future, I installed a Third party boot manager to allow me to multi-boot a 2nd operatiing system which I assume means it will modify the MBR.

    C) I install DB10 Pro's - Backup Capsule with a hotkey (Fxx key) to access the Backup Capsule, by pressing Fxx key, during boot process.

    Now, with any of the above A) to C) setups on my pc, I was to Restore a "System partition" only Backup Image Archive, then I assume DB10 Pro will perform an "Update MBR" action when Restoring the System Partitoon only Backup Archive, effectively replacing my MBR with a Default MBR which would in turn cause me to loose the modified MBR functionality that the above setups A) to C) had established when they originally modified my the MBR on the hard drive of my pc ?? ..... Is this correct ??


    .... If what I stated is correct, then:

    I.) Does this mean that after I Restore my "System Partition only Backup Image Archive, I should then do a second Restore from my MBR Only Backup Image Archive to gain back my the customized MBR that was originally on my pc's hard drive?

    II) What if I create a Backup Archive containing only the "System Partition" and "First Track/MBR", items Selected/Checked On and then performed a Restore of this Backup Archive, will this Restore my System Partition and customized MBR in one Restore operaton ??
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2010
  8. Mech_An

    Mech_An Registered Member

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    1. Yes. It updates partition table.

    2. No. It performs Update, which means that part of MBR called "partition table" is overwritten , even if there are no changes in partition size or start/end sector. There is no difference if it is system partition or data partition.
    RestoreUpdMBR.jpg

    3. I. No, if you use Paragon Boot manager or bootable backup Capsule option.
    No, if third-party boot manager doesn't use updated sectors.
    Yes, if third-party boot manager is very sensitive to MBR changes.

    3. II. Yes, you can perform MBR restore each time, but it is not required if your boot manager is not affected by re-building partitions info.
    If you create an archive with system partition + MBR, you will need to restore each part separately, because it will be complex backup.
     
  9. JosephB

    JosephB Registered Member

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    Mech_An,

    Many thanks to your answers. I have a better understanding now !

    ... I have just a few more last set of questions:

    1. Why does Paragon update the "partition table" part of the MBR, even if there are no changes in partition size or start/end sector ?

    2.(A) If I follow with a Restore of my "MBR Only Backup", what will be the side effect/damage of undoing what Paragon did by performing "rebuilding of the partitions" ?

    2.(B) If I follow with a Restore of my "First Track Backup", what will be the side effect/damage of undoing what Paragon did by performing "rebuilding of the partitions" ?


    3. Could a 3rd party boot manager be effected by paragon's re-building partitons info of the non-mbr parts of the First track where you need to restore more than MBR only backup, but actually restore the First track backup (there is an option to backup mbr only or all of first track with mbr) ?


    4. I could play it safe by using paragon's boot manager and then my only main concern would be the following:

    Question:

    Typically, would an OEM recovery - partition with access at boot-up process, by pressing F11 key to access the hidden oem recovery - partition be sensitve to paragon's rebuilding of partitions ?
    .... Specifcally, would I typically need to perform MBR restore from a backup of my mbr, for recovery partition to work properly ?


    5. Which would be the best as a Paragon Boot Manager for 2 operating systems - Hard Disk Manager or Partition Manager 11 ? ... and what are the main difference strengths between Hard Disk Manager vs. Partition Manager 11 ?
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2010
  10. Mech_An

    Mech_An Registered Member

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    It is very important part, because if even 1 sector is changed in partitions table, it could cause unbootable Windows and other issues (e.g. partition could be shown as Invalid in Paragon product)
    It would be very hard to resolve such issue after the operation. So, to avoid problems, partitions info is re-building.

    Note: In general, probability of such errors is very low. But they are really serious.

    Yes, It will overwrite rebuilding. But in most common cases, there will be no issues after restore.

    In very rare cases - yes, but you can always repeat restore operation or perform separate Update MBR operation.

    No. First Hard Disk Track is not affected. Only a part of MBR is re-building. As First Hard Disk Track + MBR and only MBR backups are very small, toy can create full First track + MBR backup and keep it somewhere. It is always restored as single object backup.

    The only way to find it out is to try. Because some OEMs Recovry options are not affected, but other are.


    In general, Hard Disk Manager 2010 Pro/Suite is the product which contains most features and options to satisfy any user requirements.
    In my opinion, it is the best product, because at has almost all possible options.

    Please have a look at Full features list of Hard Disk Manager http://www.paragon-software.com/exp.../docs/HDM2010_Full_Features_List_Consumer.pdf
    Here is same list for Partition Manager 11 http://www.paragon-software.com/exp...com/docs/PM11_Consumer_Full_Features_List.pdf.

    As you can see, Hard Disk Manager includes all features of Partition Manager + advanced Backup\Restore
     
  11. JosephB

    JosephB Registered Member

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    Mech_An,

    My last set of questions (that will wrap up this thread for me), in order to make sure I grasp everything correctly is as follows:


    Questions:


    I. Lets say I installed a Security/HIPS program and it modified the First Track and the MBR and I decide that I want to remove the Security program (I uninstall it), but to be on the 100 percent safe side, I want to ensure that whatever the pgm might have modified in the First Track and the MBR is definitly removed.

    Now, luckily, I backed up the System Partition and I backed up the First Hard Disk Track (which includes MBR), before installing this Security Hips program.

    So, now to get the pc back to the state it was before installing the Secuirty Hips program which of the below sequences would be the best Restore Sequence to accomplish this:


    Restore Sequence - A

    1. Restore "First Hard Disk Track" - Backup Archive.

    2. Restore "System Partiton" - Backup Archive.


    Restore Sequence - B

    1. Restore "System Partiton" - Backup Archive.

    2. Restore "First Hard Disk Track" - Backup Archive


    II. If both of the above methods will work, then what is the advantage(s) of one method over the other ?

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    III. In terms of an "Entire Hard Disk" - Backup Archive and the Restore process of this type of backup archive:

    When you create an "Entire Hard Disk" - Backup Archive it includes the "First Hard Disk Track (with MBR)", as well as all the Partitions (system/data/hidden) on the hard disk.

    Question:

    So, when you Restore the "Entire Hard Disk" - Backup Archive, is DB10 Pro actually Restoring this type of archive in the following order:

    1. Lay down the "First Hard Disk Track (with MBR)" (from the First Hard Disk Track/MBR image object that is contained in the backup archive).

    2. Next, Update MBR (in terms of Re-Building of Partiton Data).

    3. Restore all the System and Data Partitions contained in the backup archive.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    IV. So, if one already has DB10 Pro installed on their pc or Backup/Restore, then would it be best just to get Partition Manager ? .... It looks to me like HDM would be duplicating all the backup/restore features found in DB 10 Pro.

    V. Can Partition Manager be installed on the same pc that has DB10 Pro installed ? .... Since, Partiton Manager also has some limited backup/restore features would there be any conflict of having these 2 pgms installed on the same pc ?
     
  12. Mech_An

    Mech_An Registered Member

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    1. "Restore Sequence - B" is correct. After System partition restore Paragon will rebuild partitions list.
    3. Paragon restores full HDD backup as follows:
    1) First track with MBR
    2) All partitions
    3) Re-building partitions list
    4. Yes. If you have DB10 Pro, there is no need in HDM, Partition Manager together with DB10 will cover all functionality of HDM.
    5. Yes, You can install as many paragon products as you want. just do not try to run them at the same time. It is impossible, as they use same engine.
     
  13. JosephB

    JosephB Registered Member

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    Mech_An,

    I am confused, regarding what you said below, in response to my question ........

    Since, Paragon when restoring full HDD backup, first Restores "First track with MBR" and then next Restores "All partitions" and follows with last step of "Re-building partitions list", then for my question 1. , so why use Restore Sequence - B, when Restore Sequence - A would actually match what happens with a Restore of a "full HDD backup" ?

    .... I would think Restore Sequence - A would work just as well ?

    .... After all, if I had created only a full HDD backup (instead of a Complex Archive Backup, consisting of a "System Partition - Backup" object and a "First Track with MBR - Backup" object), just before installing the Security/Hips program and I then proceeded to restore the full HDD backup, Paragon would perform the restore basically like "restore Sequence - A" ??
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2010
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