random memory errors and crashs

Discussion in 'other software & services' started by lodore, Jan 16, 2007.

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  1. lodore

    lodore Registered Member

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    Hello,
    sometimes i get rqandom lock ups and sometimes programs crash because of memory errors.
    should i replace my ram?
    i have found out that two 512mb corsair xms memory is less than £100
    so it might be worth getting.
    atm i have two 512mb corsair value ram.then my pc should run alot more stable.

    this is my motherboard
    http://uk.asus.com/products4.aspx?l1=3&l2=14&l3=66&model=232&modelmenu=1
    does this ram work with it?
    http://www.savastore.com/productinf...store&product_id=10279873&pid=207&rstrat=3115

    if not what corsair xms memory does?
    might as well get more expensive ram lol.
    also is it better to get one 1gb stick or two 512mb sticks?
    i want some proformance ram.
    so something like corsair xms or crucial Ballistix

    lodore
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2007
  2. ronjor

    ronjor Global Moderator

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    Either
     
  3. lodore

    lodore Registered Member

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  4. ronjor

    ronjor Global Moderator

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  5. lodore

    lodore Registered Member

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    im not at home atm so not yet.
    but might try that when i get home tonight
    lodore
     
  6. Ice_Czar

    Ice_Czar Registered Member

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    the K8N-E Deluxe doesnt use a dual-channel memory bus, but thats not always the case. Here is a guide on Opteron Memory that explains the difference. Many 64bit processor boards would see a real benefit from two sticks. For instance AMD 64 & Turion 64 based on die memory controllers and of course Opterons but implementation comes down to the mobo to take full advantage of it. My Opterons and Tyan K8W employs a dual channel (quad with 2 CPUs) memory bus which is why I employ 4 sticks.

    but in your case its not important, just thought Id toss that out since lurkers might misinterpret the scope of the first article linked

    have you actually determined the RAM is bad?
    http://www.memtest.org/
    http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/ (w\ memtest86+)

    have you adjusted the timing?

    if the memory is bad, whatever you do dont start transferring data around you'll magically turn it into garbage
    verify all transfers
    http://www.slavasoft.com/fsum/
    http://www.haxial.com/products/hash/
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2007
  7. lodore

    lodore Registered Member

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    i think ive got enough evidence that my pc has bad ram.
    1. ages ago the driving thoery test showed memory read error with a windows dialog box.
    2. recently opera crashed randomly and an entrie was in the event log showing the bad memory address when it crashed.
    3. avp.exe has randomly crashed once or twice for no reason what so ever.
    these are three completely different program thta crash for no reason.
    4. sometimes when i log out of my dad's account then log in as me it restarts before it loads my account.
    5. sometimes it gets stuck on savings your settings...
    6. i read on the hexus fourms that someone had a client that brought in a system that got stuck on the login screen sometimes and randomly reboots.
    7. bsods with sql less or equal to. which acoring to someone at hexus this indercades a memory error. also they said they reformated and loaded everything back on and it still happerned so they replaced the ram and it was fine.
    8. window blinds seemed to crash explorer alot. acording to crutical graphics errors and bsods indocate memory problems.
    9. there was a thread on hexus entitled "what makes memory go bad"
    the answers where power spikes,dust,bad cooling,power cuts etc.
    now i have a very dusty house and when i open my pc up theres tons of dust to clean.
    so i think thats enough.
    two 512mb Ballistix Tracer costs about £100 or 1gb Ballistix Tracer costs £100 free postage to the uk.
    i know that any memory can go bad even corsair value ram
    lodore
     
  8. Ice_Czar

    Ice_Czar Registered Member

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    probable doesnt equal definitive
    run memtest for at least one pass

    IRQL less than zero is the catchall BSOD
    and you really havent eliminated the possibility of system file corruption
    or a bad driver

    not that Im not "up" on ESD & Electromigration
     
  9. lodore

    lodore Registered Member

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    i dont think its system file corroption and have no reason why it would be.
    bad driver could be but dono.
    i update drivers normaly wait till they have been out for a while first.
    but how can you tell if its a driver issue unless you update it and ive got all the lastest drivers for all my products i think.
    this has been a long time thing.
    so i have done lots of updates during that time.
    most of the time the pc boots up fine and runs fine.
    then sometimes it randomly reboots and produces bsods and has some program crashing and it tells me the memory address in the event log.
    so that makes me think its a memory error due to the fact sometimes it must use the bad bit of memory right?
    and thats why the pc goes really bad and produces errors and bsods.
    then uses the rest of ram and is fine for a while.
    i learned from memtest86 website that ram is not meant to have even one failiure and then you throw it in the bin because in the end it will get round to the bad memory.
    i dont know if i will run memtest86 yet or not.

    lodore
     
  10. lodore

    lodore Registered Member

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    woops forgot number 10
    10.acronis true image cant make a image if i put it on high compression.
    but will work on normal compression.
    someone in the acronis forum said thjat in the past that its a sign of memory errors.
    lodore
     
  11. Ice_Czar

    Ice_Czar Registered Member

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    1. weve now discussed this longer than it would have taken to test it
    2. if there is a memory defect your almost guaranteed to have filesystem corruption, borked critical system files, and are slowly turning your data to mush.
    3. Corruption 101 (2nd post) certainly possible to corrupt without bad memory and its possible that it could account for the errors youve seen. Possible but not probable, its probable you have a bad stick of RAM, do you know which one? How are you going to figure that out without testing?

    test both
    test first one then the other

    actually you should swap their locations as well if you pass the first test of both sticks

    http://www.lostcircuits.com/memory/ultrax/2.shtml
    Dr Michael Schutte (current\former?) Director of Technology Development at OCZ Technology
    the geek in disguise responsible for Lost Circuits
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2007
  12. lodore

    lodore Registered Member

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    i was just gonna replace both since its alot easier.
    how long does memtest86 take?
    i dont know how that corroption program works and how to use it
    lodore
     
  13. lodore

    lodore Registered Member

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    ok i just had to reset my pc because my dvd drive wouldnt open. unrelated im gonna check the cables of the dvd drive at a later date.
    but after the reboot i opened opera,wml and sonicstage.
    it took a while to load up i had two wml icons in the taskbar one signed in and one not so i closed one and they both closed. then i reopened and it was fine.
    opera randomly crashed.
    you cant tell me opera is that unrelible and should crash this often.
    tell me if you think it could of crashed because of bad memory or why you think it crashed.
    i will post a screenshot of the error.
    lodore
     

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  14. Ice_Czar

    Ice_Czar Registered Member

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    how long it takes is variable depending on the speed of the processor(s) and RAM and how much of it your testing

    I recently did nine full passes overnight on a glacially slow 750MHz PC100 128MB box

    its likely you could start, go have dinner and it would be done with at least a single pass
    (its an endless loop)
    you might have a screen full of red errors inside of a minute too

    the whole point of my posts is to stop you from playing guessing games and start to definitively rule out possible causes with real tests. So no thanks Im not guessing why its busted.

    And while it maybe easier to buy 2 sticks of RAM its not cheaper
    the other point would be if it is the RAM, is it covered under a warranty?
    (always buy lifetime guaranteed RAM ala Crucial ect)

    and finally if it is the RAM how did it fail? Was its a latent defect that occured in manufacturing? during integration? (buy a wrist strap and grounding mat be aware of humidity) or was it a crap PSU thats likely to fry your replacement RAM too? Get a good PSU and put it on a good UPS


    I take it you mean the checksum aps?
    unzip fsum and place it in C:\Windows or C:\WINNT (XP vs W2K)
    where C: is your %systemroot% (where the OS your booted into is installed)
    then take some big assed file and place it in C:\

    Start > Run > (Type) cmd

    youll then get a prompt (what you type is in red)

    C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator>CD C:\
    C:\>
    C:\>fsum.exe /? (verifies its working)

    SlavaSoft Optimizing Checksum Utility - fsum 2.51
    Implemented using Slavasoft Quickhash Library <www.slavasoft.com>
    Copyright <C> SlavaSoft Inc. 199-2004. All Rights reserved.

    ; SlavaSoft Optimizing Checksum Utility - fsum 2.51 <www.slavasoft.com>
    ;
    ; Generated on 01/16/07 at 18:09:09
    ;

    C:\>fsum.exe -md5 bigassedfile.jpeg (name of whatever file your testing)

    SlavaSoft Optimizing Checksum Utility - fsum 2.51
    Implemented using Slavasoft Quickhash Library <www.slavasoft.com>
    Copyright <C> SlavaSoft Inc. 199-2004. All Rights reserved.

    ; SlavaSoft Optimizing Checksum Utility - fsum 2.51 <www.slavasoft.com>
    ;
    ; Generated on 01/16/07 at 18:10:09
    ;
    bec50a347a5fb2ff498be5022637180f bigassedfile.jpeg

    at which point you cut and paste that file around into and out of several locations\directories then back into C:\ where you repeat the process and get another long assed number, if the two numbers match the checksums are the same and no corruption occurred

    I simplified this so to limit the navigation you had to do in the command window, normally youd navigate from one tested file to the backup location and run fsum there and compare the two hashs (alphanumeric strings) which if you actually have to transfer data around with possibly bad RAM youd better do before deleting the original.

    md5 is only one of several options
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2007
  15. lodore

    lodore Registered Member

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    i have a hiper PSU which i belive to be a decent psu. i dont think that would of fryed the ram
    do i just burn the memtest85 iso on to a cd then boot from it?
    then do i just press start and it tests one module at a time?
    how the hell are you meant to find out how it got bad.
    it could be dust, power spike from mains,to much power from PSU etc.
    for the tests i would have to take out one stick and test one 512mb stick at a time to find which one is fryed.
    thats why i talked about UPS because power spikes happern alot so i will probaly get one of those.
    lodore
     
  16. Ice_Czar

    Ice_Czar Registered Member

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    all power supplies can go bad
    how gracefully they retire is what matters

    yup burn the ISO and boot
    F1 mainboard tools > F5 Memtest86+
    or something close to that

    its all links in a chain
    mains > surge protector\UPS\lack there of (cheap surge protectors go bad in a few years) > PSU > VRM\VRD (Voltage Regulation Modual\Voltage Regulation Down, the "hidden" DC to DC power supply) built into your mobo that steps down (typically) the +12V to the Vcore

    you can check and even log voltages (including vcore) with MBM or speedfan
    and you can think back to that really dry day when you where fumbling around in the case while it was ungrounded reseating RAM moduals while scooting your butt around a urethane foam cushioned chair (80,000V)
    you can take your computers off the same house circuit that heavy motors start and stop on (Washers, dryer, AC, refrigerator, ect. anything with a serious assed amp draw) you can make sure the house circuit its on isnt overloaded with lots of other crap (map your house circuits and outlets to the breakers)
    you can buy a good UPS
     
  17. lodore

    lodore Registered Member

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    well i have always thought my hosue needs rewiring.
    i know that all psu's can go bad but how long does a normal psu last?
    on my computer course last year they never got us to use wrist straps maybe they didnt think it was needed.
    lodore
     
  18. Ice_Czar

    Ice_Czar Registered Member

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    there are alot of variables involved in how long any device will last
    the primary one in coming up with MTBF MTTF ins the arrhenius equation
    which primarily has to do with temperature

    a supply that has to transform a highly variable AC current into stable DC currents will be working harder than one that is dealing with a stable AC current
    a supply that has its mean operating temperature lower by 18F\10C will likely have the same rule of thumb applied (via the arrhenius equation) as most other devices, 10C drop = 100% increase in lifespan, 10C rise = 50% decrease. The next factor is the load that is on the supply, an overloaded supply isnt long for this world. Some supplies die gracefully protecting the devices they power to the last breath, others go on a killing rampage allowing radical surges and unstable voltages that fry the VRM RAM CPU and even attached drives
     
  19. lodore

    lodore Registered Member

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    i burned the iso image to a cd and thought i would try it on my old pc first so i did.
    it tryed to load from the cd but failed so tryed to load the os on that pc which is crappy windows ME lol but it said failed to start from hibination. so it tryed to load but couldnt and it got stuck on the options screen showing 4 options 1. normal
    2.boottex.log
    3. safe mode
    4. cant rememeber
    i know this isnt the cd's fault but its still annoying
    the keyboard allows me to press the y to get that far but the numbers and arrows dont allow to do a selection.
    i have checked the keyboard lead.
    lodore
     
  20. farmerlee

    farmerlee Registered Member

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    Have you tried running your computer using one memory stick at a time? This way you can isolate which is the faulty one.
     
  21. lodore

    lodore Registered Member

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    not yet i havent.
    lodore
     
  22. Ice_Czar

    Ice_Czar Registered Member

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    tab key

    it aint just cats that eat mice :p
    its important to know how to navigate a computer without one
    you should be able to do most programs without a mouse (barring graphics)
    in fact I just navigated this whole thread from link to link to buttons and this edit solely by keyboard

    give it a try ;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2007
  23. lodore

    lodore Registered Member

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    lol ok i will try that.
    lodore
     
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