PROPOSAL: (old/full) FD-ISR WS Edition

Discussion in 'FirstDefense-ISR Forum' started by holymoly, Jul 9, 2008.

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  1. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Does anyone really feel there is much point to this thread continuing. At the end of the day it is accomplishing nothing.

    Pete
     
  2. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    No I don't see any purpose of this thread, because it's just a dream, that won't become true, at least not in the near future.
    Maybe one day, when ISR-softwares become as popular as AV scanners. :)
     
  3. Longboard

    Longboard Registered Member

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  4. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    This is why this thread is pointless. Tony's idea was well expressed, but regretfully it doesn't matter.

    HDS is letting Todd do what?? We don't know the contractual arrangement so anything said like this is pure speculation.

    I am not going to close the thread based on this, but Erik's right.
     
  5. Longboard

    Longboard Registered Member

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    Yes.
    Just that.
    ; aaaggghhh :D
     
  6. EASTER

    EASTER Registered Member

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    Some members amaze me with your blatant dismissal and like it's over as to never again be available.

    This is only a trend, sometimes developers lead the public to fantasy land. I lay odds, and maybe not in the near future due to contractual agreements they signed and are obligated to abide by for a specific amount of time, but sometime in the future i think everyone is going to be amazed when the workstation of the old FD-ISR resurfaces again, with not only it's great features a lot of customers have enjoyed in the past, but times and agreements CHANGE no matter what.

    So though at this time it seems unlikely, it is not impossible. This is the software products world and it's ever evolving and sometimes takes years to ressurrect again back to it's popular products, even with newer distributors.

    And i'm a patient fellow. IMO, it's not dead or dismissed, just going thru natural channels of change like all product makers decide on.

    EASTER
     
  7. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    Easter,
    Average users are not ready for a software like FDISR or ISR-softwares in general.
    Only knowledgeable users know how to appreciate such softwares and where are these knowledgeable users ? In forums like Wilders and in the computer department of companies.

    You only have to visit Malware Forums to see what is going on in the real world, one infection after another and that is just a small part, because the rest doesn't even know that such forums exist to get help.
    Many of them don't even use IB, why would they use FDISR, which is even more difficult to understand than IB.

    To a reseller
    1. companies are the easy clients, because they have the money and the knowledgeable people to handle FDISR.
    2. average users have often problems with FDISR and need constantly support in the beginning until they finally understand the purpose of FDISR and all hardware/software issues with FDISR on their computer are solved.
    I'm not surprised that average users don't get a reply from HDS to solve their problems, their inbox must be full of support tickets and support costs money and average users don't like to pay and don't read the manual.
    FDISR Rescue is simple, which means less support, less questions, less troubles with average users.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2008
  8. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    You will probably have time for several trips to your designated location.
     
  9. EASTER

    EASTER Registered Member

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    You both speak with much persuasion now unlike your former praise of them before, like you have an inside track to this company and it's policy, but neither of you know what the future holds for a certain, not even myself, But i seen this happen before and gives rise to a more positive rather then the negative notes you seem to dismiss it entirely as it's a done deal no more to surface again.

    But then again neither of you and not even LEAPFROG themselves can predict the future untill the seasons change, the market turns in their better interest, then who is to say exactly what just might suddenly without warning come to the forefront.

    EASTER
     
  10. Huupi

    Huupi Registered Member

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    As Todd clearly stated,selling it to home users gave not enough revenue to make up for the costs it took. So i feel sad but his decision to stop selling it to us is completely understandable.
     
  11. EASTER

    EASTER Registered Member

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    Yes, but keep in mind, that decision came at a time where they needed to solicit the enterprise industry, that IMO in no way either discounts or dismisses what can change in the future.

    And i dare anyone to be so naive as to predict the future outcome of LEAPFROG'S policy say a year from now or so.

    Patience does has it rewards.
     
  12. trjam

    trjam Registered Member

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    that may be true, but I can assure you of one thing. A hell of a lot of people know more about it today, then say 1 or 2 years ago. It is almost like the Rocky Horror Picture Show with a cult following. Going "under" for an extended timeframe may have been the best thing that could have happened to it.

    Remember, 2 years ago it was, antispam, antispyware and antivirus. That table is turning, not just here but in the general public as more and more seek alternatives. The problem with FD-ISR is, it was birthed just a little to early.;) :argh:
     
  13. wilbertnl

    wilbertnl Registered Member

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    (Maybe Leapfrog Software should find a retailer in China...)
     
  14. holymoly

    holymoly Registered Member

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    ok fellas....I started the thread, I had an idea, Todd came back and very politely stated the current facts once again....and the good folks keep reminding us that we are dreaming. Therefore, as I like to do in these kind of situations.....I made a PDF of this thread in case things do change later on, and thus the evidence is now secure. ;)

    on a more serious note though.....since there's such a radical market repositioning....then why maintain a forum here at Wilders? the good people that visit here want more than "rescue", but can't afford "server", had a taste of the full version for a couple/few years....and we have others reminding newbies and others of how good the "old" version is, so you can imagine it can get very confusing for anyone "slightly" interested in FD-ISR.

    SO.....Why not just have a forum on Leapfrog site and be done with it? As long as the forum and Erik are here....we, members, guests, etc.....will keep hearing of the grande ole version that used to exist, but no longer does. Also...at least around these circles....I have yet to hear a good thing about HorizonDataSys. So......bo!
     
  15. pandlouk

    pandlouk Registered Member

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    Why then not ban all the FD-ISR Pro users from the wilders? :cautious: :rolleyes:

    I do not know about the others but for me HorizonDataSys folks are ok.
    I own both FD-ISR and Rollback RX and I like them both. Although I prefer Fd-ISR.
    Most of the time they respond at my support tickets and they try to fix the problems that I report to them. (1-2 tickets did not get responce but when I chatted with online support I got these resolved too).

    Panagiotis
     
  16. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    I don't see any benefit in creating a forum at Leapfrog website.
    When Wilders replaces the subforum "FirstDefense-ISR BETA Forum" with "FirstDefense-ISR Rescue", we have all the forums we need and there won't be any confusion between two very different versions anymore.
    Users of the server edition hardly visit this forum, because they are used by knowledgeable people in companies and they don't need as much support as average users do.
    Changing the address of a forum doesn't improve anything.

    You always seem to mention my name, but I'm not that special, I just know how to use FDISR, nothing more than that.
    Each time when there is a technical problem with FDISR, I'm not the one who solves the problem : Todd, Peter, Wilbertnl and others solve technical problems, because their technical knowledge is much larger than mine.
    I never had any technical problems with FDISR, unless I caused them myself. I try to avoid technical problems by using my logical mind, intuition, keeping it simple and my experience as a pure application analyst helps me alot.
    I only wrote (too) many posts about FDISR, because I was fascinated by FDISR during 2 years. I never met a software like FDISR in my life that changed so many things thoroughly on my computer in a very positive way.
    After September 2007, I couldn't improve anything anymore regarding recovery and I had reached my final goal : cleaning and repairing my computer automatically without doing anything than reboot and without needing specialized knowledge.
    Isn't that the final goal of everybody at Wilders, having a malware-free/garbage-free computer and spending your time in a positive and productive way ?

    I can't do this in the very same and convenient way with any other ISR-software without needing extra softwares and I've been studying DeepFreeze, Returnil and ShadowDefender, they are all three LESS than FDISR and I don't need to study the others, because they have the same design with only small differences.
    Some of them have much better functions than FDISR, but these are just details, not important enough to replace FDISR. :)
    DeepFreeze is too strict and its development is rather slow. Returnil and ShadowDefender are the most interesting ones and they improve constantly, sometimes with strange extra functions like in Returnil's beta version recently.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2008
  17. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    I agree with Pandlouk. HorizonDataSys is doing what they feel best for them, and I also have gotten response to any tickets I've submitted.

    As to the forum for Leapfrog here. As long as they support users, which is obvious they will do, why not. It takes work to support and moderate a forum, so they are wise to continue here. I for one am glad they are here.

    Pete
     
  18. holymoly

    holymoly Registered Member

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    Well...really there's nothing more I can say on the subject since at least this point in time....it's not going to make a difference. Unfortunately, we have 2 camps here at Wilder's:

    1) those who have the full version FD-ISR
    2) those who don't have the full version FD-ISR (and have to live with those of you who do) :mad: by the same the token...you have to live with us as well...so it's a 2-way street. ;)

    Erik - I meant no offense to you regarding your FD-ISR pitches that I've and others come across during researching here at Wilders. You do post ALOT...you're nearly at 10,000 posts, so you DO know we see you everywhere. ;) Again....I did mention early on that if it wasn't for your posts....I would have never picked up on FD-ISR. Same with Pete....his comments have also been very very helpful throughout Wilders. I think Todd and Gang should owe you guys for being such a great supporter of their product and putting others onto it. There's something to be said when you reach that many posts and nearly most of them probably concern FD-ISR.

    Which brings me to another idea I just had - if folks REALLY care and love this product - then all of you need to help LeapFrog and the full FD-ISR by really convincing others here to purchase Rescue and to let LeapFrog know they came from Wilders. I think this place is a wonderful place to discuss this type of stuff, so it's unfortunate with numbers like this:

    Members: 78,986, Active Members: 15,558

    ...that Wilders didn't make an impact on LeapFrog's revenue. :(

    One last comment - let's not forget either that most of us here are probably the "computer experts" in our families, so....we're the ones to help spread the word as well to our friends and families and co-workers/managers, who would otherwise never hear or even understand something like this and how great (and important) it is in the scheme of things. Out of our worldwide operation....I feel like I'm the only one who understands how important it is to backup....most people simply take it for granted and even if they were concerned - they wouldn't know where to start.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2008
  19. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    holymoly,
    I don't feel offended at all, don't worry about me. :D
     
  20. wilbertnl

    wilbertnl Registered Member

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    I disagree, I think that we all are Leapfrog Software/Raxco etc, customers.
    Some of us express strong personal preferences, others are more open.
    In the end, we all come here for support. To receive or to offer.

    Let me give you an analogy:
    I don't care how my car works and I don't want to change the oil myself. I get to an automotive place and pay to get maintenance service.
    My neighbour though, is laying under his car and replacing his battery every week.
    I would NOT want him to convince me how much I'm missing out by not doing what he is doing.
     
  21. holymoly

    holymoly Registered Member

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    ok I think you missed my point completely and therefore I have no idea how to respond to that.....so I just won't + it's time to move on anyway. :blink:

    [holymoly now waves to the crowd....and exits stage left]
     
  22. EASTER

    EASTER Registered Member

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    Personally as a very encharged and ethusiastic plus totally satisfied recipient of the now i guess we can call the Classic FD-ISR, i applaud holymoly's write-in campaign of sorts with this topic and his efforts to appeal for it.

    As software continues to evolve, marketing strategies also are always in flux and tend to change according to season almost, so even for all purposes it looks bleak at this point-in-time and all indications express against what's greatly desired, i for one never close the door or chalk things up as over and done.

    And why? Because it's happened before, so the belief, even in the face of doubt that whats over is over, this business does spring up surprises when we least expect them.

    Thats how i happened on FD-ISR at all to begin with. My thoughts were this is just another round of a different software that will come and go, and while it has gone (original version save the update) theres no law that dictates it HAS to always remain that way indefinitely.

    In the meantime however, of course, is it's cousin for better or worse.

    Thanks for the Topic & Effort holymoly
    EASTER
     
  23. Acadia

    Acadia Registered Member

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    "Classic", I like that! :cool:

    Acadia
     
  24. katoa

    katoa Registered Member

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    Great post Erik - I couldn't agree more with your reasoning and yet disagree more with your (and Leapfrogs) conclusions.

    First, let me preface my remarks by stating that I am long-time reader, first-time poster here at Wilders. Second, my qualifications - 15+ years in Software Development, Windows developer, MBA, graduate of one successful startup, and currently CTO of another software startup (which is now profitable in year 2).

    Successful software business is all about positioning - the right products for the right markets at the right prices. FDISR was the mostly-right product positioned to the wrong market at an unsustainable price-point. I don't blame Leapfrog/Horizon at all for pulling out - but I must say that they are unforgivable crazy to not be repositioning the full-featured product to a different market (with different sales channels, etc) at a different price point.

    Let me illustrate by discussing Altiris SVS (now owned by Symantec), which was developed by a neighbor and friend (originally the company was FSLogic). They knew from day 1 that both Protect (their first product, competing with DeepFreeze, etc.) and what later became SVS would only be successful in the Enterprise market, where the IT expertise needed to successfully use the products (and not require a fortune to support) existed. Accordingly, Altiris saw the huge IT benefits of integrating it into their suite. (Not to say that they couldn't have made some money selling dumbed-downed versions to Consumers much like FD-Rescue, just that the big money wasn't there. Even the market to tech-savvy consumers is dwarfed by the business IT market.)

    All that said, Altiris made a brilliant move to release an absolutely free personal version (which only has the client-server functionality removed) to the general public. Why the heck would they do that? Because, the only consumers that end up using it (because of the very technical knowledge required, far surpassing even that required for FDISR) are those that can deal with it (Wilders-security type of folks), are willing to read the 500+ page manual, spend countless hours on the Altiris Juice community site supporting themselves, working around issues, etc. Many users are technical enough that they are writing their own plugins using the SVS SDK which benefits the entire SVS community!

    And most importantly, what else is true about most of those folks? - they have a huge likelihood of being in current and/or future positions of influence in IT decisions of companies they work for! Get a tech-guy like that hooked on it, and you can bet big money that they'll purchase and/or help convince their IT department to at least seriously investigate SVS. And once in the door with SVS, then there is the huge upsell to the entire Altiris Suite, Wise Package Studio, etc.

    I'm not trying to convince anyone to give FDISR away for free (unless it made business sense), but my point is again is that is is borderline insane to walk away from the very real business value of such an amazing technical solution (albeit one that needs the right market, with a few changes targeted at that market).

    Trust me, businesses of all sizes need FDISR as a Client-based security solution (with central management features, etc.) and would pay big money for it with the right business model, sales channels, and marketing. Until then, unless there were contractual obligations preventing it, it just makes simple business sense to continue demonstrating/refining/building a reputation for the product by selling it as a self-serve only (no support) product to a community like Wilders.

    [EDIT: I forgot to mention my admiration to Todd/others for making the forum and updates happen. Whether it is for future business reasons or solely out of the goodness of your hearts, you are to be commended! Just use your influence to help your baby grow up and get the recognition it deserves!]

    [EDIT #2: Another forgotten mention - FD-ISR could be marketed very successfully as an alternative to VMWare/etc. for Software Development companies - to their developers and QA departments. Virtual machines are great, but often have big technical downsides in QA Testing. FDISR easily solves those pain points.]
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2008
  25. pandlouk

    pandlouk Registered Member

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    Interesting post katoa.

    Another market that FD-ISR could be promoted (and supprises me that none have thought about it) is the administrate/central managment of multiple machines for updating/upgrading/migrating purpuses.
    For example:
    Lets say that I need to migrate 10 identical machines from xp to vista and install all the necessary productivity and security software.
    The currently solutions are imaging software (configure one machine and then deploy the image to the others) and/or virtualized applications like svs, thinapp, softgrid. But all of them are time consuming.
    With FD-ISR Pro I would put all the pcs in "Freeze" mode and then I would point all of them to a single frozen archive(updated for this purpose) on a server. Then I would only have to reboot those pcs twice (10 minutes job).
    By magic I would have 10 identical vista fully configured pcs ready for use. :D

    ps. The frozen snapshot is the most powerfull, less documented and almost forgotten feature of FD-ISR Pro!

    Panagiotis
     
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