PoC Exploit Released for macOS Gatekeeper Bypass

Discussion in 'all things Mac' started by mood, Oct 4, 2021.

  1. mood

    mood Updates Team

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    PoC Exploit Released for macOS Gatekeeper Bypass
    October 4, 2021
    https://www.securityweek.com/poc-exploit-released-macos-gatekeeper-bypass
    The discovery of Gatekeeper bypass CVE-2021-1810
     
  2. Rasheed187

    Rasheed187 Registered Member

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    Like I said, Apple's built-in security simply isn't good enough, it's just as leaky as Windows used to be LOL. :rolleyes:
     
  3. Daveski17

    Daveski17 Registered Member

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    As you don't run macOS I don't understand why the need to consistently comment on any Apple security problems. Have you ever ran or owned a Mac? Mac in-built security is far better than anything Windows had, has or will have. It's certainly not as 'leaky' as Windows.

    This exploit still requires some social engineering to convince the user to extract an archived zip file.

    Not exactly a drive-by.
     
  4. 1PW

    1PW Registered Member

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  5. Rasheed187

    Rasheed187 Registered Member

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    Oh no, not this stuff again, do you really want to go down this path? It hasn't got anything to do with me not using macOS, and I might actually buy a Mac in the future. The thing is, I find it amusing that the whole myth of macOS being a more secure OS than Windows is starting to unravel. It's full of holes and if hackers want to, they can easily bypass built-in security both on macOS and iOS. But if Windows has a market share of 90% and macOS 10%, on which OS are you going to focus as a hacker?

    Yes that's exactly how most malware ends up on Windows as well, so I'm not sure what your point is. I already explained that drive-by attacks on home user PC's are mostly a thing of the past because of built-in browser sandboxes (Chromium and Firefox) and adblockers. It was a huge problem in the days of Win XP and Internet Explorer, that's how I ended up on this forum, I was trying to figure out how to protect against it, because it became obvious to me that AV's could not block 100% of all malware.
     
  6. XIII

    XIII Registered Member

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    Many things can be hacked, if you really want to. But why do you think it's easy for macOS/iOS?
     
  7. Rasheed187

    Rasheed187 Registered Member

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    Didn't you read all of those reports? And I'm not saying anything new, most security experts agree with the fact that macOS is not more secure by design than Windows, just perform a Google search. I can also post those quotes from them if you want to. So it's a silly discussion, the facts are up for grabs. And yes it's less likely that you will encounter malware on a Mac, but that's not what this discussion is about.
     
  8. XIII

    XIII Registered Member

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    You did not answer my question: why do you think it’s easy?
     
  9. Daveski17

    Daveski17 Registered Member

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    It isn't a myth. It is actually more secure. More secure; not invulnerable. Anything can be bypassed or hacked. Windows especially. Unix as a whole is more difficult to pwn or compromise through design. It's always been this way. I explained why on another post. It's just that every time a Mac vulnerability is discovered you proclaim that macOS integral security is worse than windows or that it is deficient in some way. It's not deficient, it's just not invulnerable. In the real world macOS is safer than Windows. Ubuntu is safer than Windows. Not just because either are a minority OS, but because they are integrally more secure. Just because occasionally macOS vulnerabilities are discovered it doesn't mean as an operating system it has become more or as vulnerable as Windows is.

    I still bet there are more drive-by vulnerabilities on Windows than anything Unix. Interestingly Safari on macOS (even with the adblocker disabled) gives a better score on BrowserAudit than Firefox or Chrome in my experience. It's worth pointing out I literally only have one extension on Safari:


    AdBlock Pro.jpg

    Safari is the only browser I have ever run with just one extension. IMO Apple are ahead of Google in security, and Google are way ahead of MickeySoft.
     
  10. Rasheed187

    Rasheed187 Registered Member

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    Well, both Windows and macOS had plenty of code execution vulnerabilities in 2021 alone, see links.

    But here's the thing, not all of those vulnerabilities are a direct threat to users. I haven't had malware on my system in 25 years of using Windows and I didn't even patch it for 10 years, go figure. So with your way of thinking, I might as well dismiss all articles on this forum about exploits and zero days on Windows as FUD.

    So are you nowadays more at risk on the macOS? I would say barely, because hackers are still less likely to target the macOS, and that's why there is less malware developed for it. You guys somehow fail or refuse to understand this. And again, most security experts will tell you that macOS is not more secure by design than Windows, so don't take my word for it.

    https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerab...age=1&hasexp=0&opdos=0&opec=1&opov=0&opcsrf=0
    https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerab...&sha=b2469d311f056e36b697b917831e2f9ec63185df
     
  11. Rasheed187

    Rasheed187 Registered Member

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    As said before, drive-by attacks are less of a threat nowadays for home users, and hackers reserve zero days mostly for targeted attacks, instead of trying to exploit the mass, both on Windows and macOS.

    On the other hand, it only takes one working exploit to do any serious damage. Why do you think that Apple is patching these zero days in iOS and macOS? They even admit that they are actively being exploited, so it's not just a threat in theory.

    So to round this all up, in terms of OS design, I would say that Windows and macOS are probably just as secure or insecure depending on how you look at it. Perhaps macOS has a slight edge, but does it really matter if YOU happen to be the unlucky one who gets tricked into running a malicious app, that's able to bypass built-in security?

    BTW, this is an interesting article that highlights all of the security features in both Windows and macOS, and it doesn't try to give an answer on which OS is more secure, for the record.

    https://www.idginsiderpro.com/artic...pple-macos-18-security-features-compared.html
     
  12. Daveski17

    Daveski17 Registered Member

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    You can't just will something to be true Mussolini-style and make the trains run on time. 'Will to power' is not actually a thing. It's just an ontology.

    Either way, Unix is a safer system regardless of any BS propaganda or bizarre ontological claims in the 'new standard reality' in which we find ourselves. Which I refuse to accept anyway as there is no real proof that macOS or Ubuntu have suddenly degenerated to the security level of Windows.

    Reality just isn't like that and any scholar of history will attest to this. We live in a world of disinformation, fear, and egregious BS. This is especially true in the world of software exploits. You have to examine the narrative more closely. Then ask yourself not only if everything or anything you are reading has a basis in reality, but has its author any sub-textual or tendentious reasons for what they are stating?

    Security and anti-malware software distributors would certainly financially benefit if they could scare more Mac users into acquiring their products.

    There have always been macOS vulnerabilities which are usually then discovered and brought to the attention of the developers. They are rare compared to Windows vulnerabilities. Eventually Apple get around to patching them (hopefully).

    Just because occasional vulnerabilities are found and reported doesn't mean that macOS has suddenly become as unsafe as Windows. Merely seizing on a newly reported Mac vulnerability and then claiming that therefore this proves macOS is as vulnerable as Windows as some form of triumphal quod erat demonstrandum just isn't logical. I explained why Unix architecture is integrally more secure than Windows but you choose to ignore it. Just ignoring it doesn't make it invalid. This is the ontological aspect. You can't will the trains to be on time. No matter how desperate you want them to be.

    If it makes you feel better that every time a Mac vulnerability is discovered it bolsters your belief that macOS is as insecure as Windows then that's fine. You obviously have a need for it to be true. It doesn't actually prove anything though. It doesn't actually make it true. It just means that there are extant macOS vulnerabilities. There have always been extant macOS vulnerabilities, just as there have always been extant Linux vulnerabilities.

    Mussolini never actually made the trains run on time.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2021
  13. Daveski17

    Daveski17 Registered Member

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    The biggest myth here is that macOS isn't more secure by design. It is. As all Unix OS are.
     
  14. Rasheed187

    Rasheed187 Registered Member

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    Well, I won't response to all things, because you're all over the place. Like I said, don't take my word for it, just perform a Google search, and you will find that most security experts agree with me. If you want to keep believing that macOS is more secure by design, it's fine with me.

    But I do seriously wonder if you even bothered to click on all of those links that I have posted, probably not. And you keep talking about drive-by attacks, the last one that was in the news was actually a real life attack on Firefox and built-in security of the macOS did nothing to stop it! I don't know about you, but I call this pretty leaky.
     
  15. Rasheed187

    Rasheed187 Registered Member

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    And did you see all of the remote code execution bugs that were found in macOS in 2021 alone? Well, you didn't because you probably didn't click on the link. What this means is that if hackers wanted to, they could possibly develop working exploits. But why bother when macOS only has a market share of 10%?

    Just about all security experts agree with the fact that the bigger the market share gets, the more hackers will focus on the macOS. But currently, Windows is simply much more attractive because of its sheer size.

    So yes, in my view the myth of macOS being more secure is starting to unravel. Of course most macOS fanboys don't like this new reality, but I can't blame them. And I wouldn't be surprised if we will see more succesful attacks on the macOS in 2022. And to clarify, to me it's not about Windows vs macOS, I think they are both great operating systems, so I haven't got anything against Apple, and if they decide to lower prices, I might even buy one.
     
  16. Rasheed187

    Rasheed187 Registered Member

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    Sorry I forgot to reply. But I see your point, and you're right, it probably isn't easy to find these holes and to develop a working exploit. But what I meant is that there are plenty of holes in iOS and macOS, so if they really put their mind on it, these hackers will have no difficulty succesfully exploiting them. For example, on the Pwn2Own hacking contest in 2020 and 2021, both Safari and macOS were succesfully hacked.
     
  17. Daveski17

    Daveski17 Registered Member

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    You obviously have some deep seated psychological need to believe the FUD about macOS. I don't. Mac isn't bullet proof, but it's integrally far safer than Windows.
     
  18. Daveski17

    Daveski17 Registered Member

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    The myths about macOS were just that; myths. You've got this bizarre idea about macOS that was never a reality in the first place. ALL Unix platforms are integrally more secure by design.

    Mac was never invulnerable. This is the mythology.

    It's just a lot safer out of the box than Windows. As are Ubuntu, all other distros and Chrome OS (which is also Linux anyway).

    My iMac, MacBook, both Chromebooks, Lenovo laptop (that was preinstalled with Ubuntu) and several Android tablets are all more secure than anything Windows.

    The only thing unravelling here is your subjective reality.
     
  19. Rasheed187

    Rasheed187 Registered Member

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    I already said, if you want to keep believing that macOS is integrally more secure by design, it's fine with me. Most security experts will say something differently though. And the reason why they say is, is because of the simple fact that it's becoming clear that macOS has plenty of holes that hackers can abuse, same as with Windows. And not just in theory, people are now getting actively attacked.

    In my view, if macOS really was integrally more secure, then it should also be harder to exploit and to get malware up and running on the system, but turns out it's not LOL. At the end of the day, that's what counts, nobody cares about the modular design of UNIX, which I'm sure in theory should make it more safe and stable than Windows, especially in the days of Windows XP, like 20 years ago.

    But Win 8/10/11 have been improved considerably when it comes to built-in security features. Which means that combined with common sense, it should be rather easy to stay safe on Windows, as it should be on macOS.

    For some reason, this is difficult to accept for certain people (macOS fanboys), I haven't got a clue why, perhaps it makes them feel less secure or less special? Or perhaps they want to keep hanging on to this bizzare idea that Windows is a security nightmare to most people, and that macOS is way more secure by design, eventhough most security experts think differently. I dunno, it's seems kinda silly to me, weird stuff!
     
  20. Daveski17

    Daveski17 Registered Member

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    It is integrally more secure by design. As is all Unix. This isn't about being a fanboy. This is about actual reality. This is nothing about feeling special. This is more to do with your desperate need to believe that Windows is as secure as macOS/Unix. Citing so called 'experts' is usually a last resort in any argument (a spurt is a drip under pressure and 'X' marks the spot). I could cite a shed load of 'experts' to corroborate that Unix based systems are more secure by design. Like I have stated repeatedly in the past, there seems to be some deep seated psychological need for you to believe that macOS is as vulnerable as Windows. This idea is promoted by some 'experts' who are possibly gaining financially from spreading FUD.

    It's possibly a manifestation of the 'Mac Hater' syndrome. Apple products are perceived as elitist and unobtainable to some. Although my iMac and MBA were competitively priced in my opinion. I could have paid the same amount for computers running Windows.

    Windows is and always will be a security nightmare. It was never the best operating system anyway. There are far more Android mobile devices on the market than Windows and they are all more secure. Even though they have vulnerabilities. Unix was always the better and safer option. Windows isn't just a security nightmare because of its vulnerabilities. The whole AV concept is flawed to begin with and actually developed because of the insecure architecture of Windows. I'll bet false positives have tanked more Windows computers than malware ever has.

    I own several computers, all of them run Unix. I've been Windows free for some time now. I've never been happier or safer.
     
  21. Rasheed187

    Rasheed187 Registered Member

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    Come one now, these are computer science professors and CIO's of big companies that even prefer to use Mac computers themselves. Not because they are more secure, but because they think Macs are simply better machines. I can post a couple of links with quotes, but you probably won't click on them.

    And where are these experts, perhaps you can post a couple of links? So far you have posted one link about the modular design of Unix, that nobody really cares about in real life. But I guess we have a different way of measuring security of an OS, I believe this is the problem. I simply look at whether an OS is hackable or not. In 2021 alone, macOS had 105 code execution vulnerabilities, which of course doesn't paint the full picture, but it does give you an idea about overall security.

    Here's where you are wrong, I already said I have got nothing against the macOS. So to me it's strictly about facts, not about my own perception of OS security. But I do think all of these GateKeeper bypasses and succesful zero day attacks on the macOS are amusing.

    This is exactly my point, seems like you're still stuck in the days of Win XP. And I personally believe that Android is crap, I wouldn't be surprised if iOS is more secure, but I don't know much about mobile phone security so I can't really know for sure.

    That's just plain silly, then why has macOS implemented XProtect and GateKeeper? It has got zero to do with the insecure architecture of Windows, on every OS you have API's that can be used by legitimate apps and sadly enough also by malware. That's exactly what we're seeing on the macOS. We all knew that Windows is pretty leaky, but turns out macOS is as well.
     
  22. Daveski17

    Daveski17 Registered Member

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    Yeah, 'experts'. The world's full of them. I don't need to click on FUD.

    Predictable. I already gave you a link about how Unix is intrinsically safer by design. This isn't a small thing, it's why Unix is generally less vulnerable. Mac has always had execution vulnerabilities. It's still safer than Windows in the real world.


    Oh, I'm not wrong lol. Mac has and always will have documented successful zero day attacks and will always have Gatekeeper bypasses. It's still safer than Windows.


    The point you're missing is that Android is Unix. It's integrally more secure than Windows. All Unix is. It still is. This has nothing to do with XP.

    Like I keep saying, macOS is safer by design. The clue is in the adjective safer. As in not impenetrable. As threats develop it was only natural that Apple would develop software to address the problem. Overall it's still a safer system. All Unix is.
     
  23. JRViejo

    JRViejo Super Moderator

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    OK, Let's Agree to Disagree and Move On From This Discussion, Otherwise, Posts Will Be Removed!
     
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