Please help with my DVD bootable backup!

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by MartinB82, Nov 17, 2007.

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  1. MartinB82

    MartinB82 Registered Member

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    I have just created a 4 DVD+R backup set, that included Acronis TI 9.1 with Universal restore on the disc. I restarted my machine with Volume 1 of the backup in the drive, in order to test it.

    Well my system DID READ THE DISC because it booted into an Acronis menu screen. HOWEVER, once I went into the Acronis program and tried to restore my backup in this environment (as a test) Acronis couldn't see the .tib file on the Volume 1 disc.

    How come, when Acronis had successfully started from the same disc (DVD+R)?

    Even more weirdly my final disc (Volume 4) COULD be read by Acronis (perhaps as it only had a small amount of data on it), but it was the only one that could be read in this startup environment.

    In the windows environment however, all the 4 discs of the DVD+R backup were successfully written, read and verified.

    Please help, can you explain to me what is going on?
     
  2. DwnNdrty

    DwnNdrty Registered Member

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    True Image is full of quirks and idiosyncrasies. I don't know why it wouldn't pick up on the backup files, but even if it did, an even more frustrating event awaits you in the procedure for restoring.

    When the process starts, it requires swapping those dvds in and out so many times that you will think your dvd drive will wear out. As a test I did such a backup that spanned 3 dvds and the swapping in and out was close to intolerable.

    It is much better to use an external drive to hold the Backup Images.
     
  3. MartinB82

    MartinB82 Registered Member

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    Thanks for your response DwnNdrty.

    I verified my 4 DVD backup in the windows environment, and there certainly quite a number of swaps required (about 10 to 15). Enough to be a bit of a pain, but not enough (not nearly) to make me go an buy an external hard drive. DVDs are cheap. Also I'm trying to get my system into a Raid 1 (mirrored setup) as I do have 2 internal 250GB drives.

    Once the mirror is configured, it would seem like a waste to have an external hard drive. Still I wonder what a 3rd internal hard drive, of say 80GB (enough for backing up) would cost?

    I can see why you said this, but actually I think there is a good technical reason. Acronis only recognised my optical drives as 'CD drives'. I think the answer to my question lies in using the ISO format, and indeed there is a large thread on using the ISO format to create DVD backups. I have PMed one of the more knowledgeable contributors, and await a response. Any other response to THIS thread would also be gratefully received.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2007
  4. DwnNdrty

    DwnNdrty Registered Member

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    I doubt you can find that small of an internal drive on retail shelves nowadays. The smallest would be 160Gb or perhaps a 120 Gb. If you are in the USA, a 160Gb internal would be around $50 or less. See this example:
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136112

    You would get best value for your money with the larger sizes.
     
  5. Menorcaman

    Menorcaman Retired Moderator

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    Hello Martin,

    I've provided a more detailed response in my reply to your PM but it looks as if you could be suffering from the same bug (disappearing .tib files on spanned DVD+/-R media) contained in TI 9.0 Home Build 3633. Suggest you try using DVD+/-RW media instead and then see what happens.

    Regards

    Menorcaman
     
  6. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    I would add, that if you are going to rely on the backup to restore your system, don't use multiple DVD's. If they fail, the cost will be far higher than an external drive.

    This is true for any imaging program.

    Pete
     
  7. MartinB82

    MartinB82 Registered Member

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    Many thanks Menorcaman - guess what? You're right.

    I backed up a few largeish data files separately (and then deleted them on the c: drive) in order to reduce the size of the image, and managed to just get it below the 3 DVD threshold. I then burnt this image to 3 DVD+RWs. I put Volume 1 in the drive, restarted the machine, Acronis loaded, selected restore, clicked on the DVDRW drive - and THERE WAS MY BACKUP (where it definitely wasn't before).

    I am not pleased that you were right, because it means that Aconis haven't bothered to check whether a known bug with the Home editions is affecting Corporate editions, which it seems, it is.

    I only bought Acronis TI 9.1 Workstation with universal restore about a month ago, so it must be a fairly recent build (3887). Hopefully we can bring this issue to their attention in time for the next build of the Workstation product. It is an intriguing detail of the bug that with my DVD+R image the final disc's .tib contents WERE READABLE. Whether that's because it was the final disc of the set, or whether its because only 61MB got written to that final disc I don't know. But for an expert that might be a start in working out the exact nature of the bug.

    This is a semi-important issue, because the Corporate versions are frequently purchased in order to get universal restore - this gives you flexibilty in where you restore to. If you use DVDs and have to use RWs, then you must also make sure the restoration computer has an RW drive. That in turn may drastically reduce the options that Universal Restore opens up - many computers in a corporate environment may not be equiped with a DVDRW drive.

    Menorcaman - thanks again.
     
  8. MartinB82

    MartinB82 Registered Member

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    Thanks for your comment Peter, but no the (monetary) cost will be quite low. I have all my data backed up seperately, so the worst that can happen is that I have to restore Vista manually, all the programs, all the settings etc. Granted this will have a cost in time.

    Actually, I am of the opinion that once a DVD backup has been verified it has a number of advantages. (Particularly DVD+Rs, I know that changeable state RWs shouldn't be relied on for more than a few months). DVDs are fairly cheap, small and light, and are quite robust. So long as you don't snap them or scratch them they should be fine. But I've heard of several dropped external hard drives that never worked again!
     
  9. jonyjoe81

    jonyjoe81 Registered Member

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    One thing I do know is DVD media. I never use dvdrw blank discs for anything it's unreliable from my expirements. For backup purposes you need to use tier 1 blank dvd media. The only 2 media that fall in that category "taiyo yuden" (made in japan and only sold on internet), and verbatim 16X + (sold anywhere).
    Both of them give quality ratings in the 90% with verbatim going up to 99% on some of my burns.

    The only second tier blank dvd media that I might use is "sony" , those are usually at 85% and above quality, which is the lower level that I would attempt.But if it's important data I would go with tier 1 media. Acronis backups I consider in the tier 1 category.

    If you have nero, you can run a quality test on your burnt dvd's, it would be under "test drive" section choose disc quality test. It takes about 5 minutes, at the end it's tell you what the score was. Anything above 90 percent and you probably won't have any problems getting your DVD's to read when you need them.

    As long as you use quality media, doing backups to dvd's is no problem. My system partition is small enough to fit in one dvd, and my backups and recoverys from that one dvd went smoothly.


    http://forums.afterdawn.com/forum_view.cfm/47
     
  10. MartinB82

    MartinB82 Registered Member

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    Well that's interesting. I am using Sony DVD+RWs, as I also regard them as fairly high quality. The packet says they received a rating of 'GUT' from Stiftung Warentest, but I admit that 'Gut' is not German for outstanding.

    I freely admit that the Memorex CDRWs I used to use weren't that great quality wise.

    Anyone reading my comments this week should bear in mind the purpose of my latest Acronis Image operation with Universal Restore - I won't be relying on RW media in 6 months time.

    I currently have hardware level RAID 0, and wish to move to RAID 1. In order to do this I must delete the RAID 0 array (stripe), and will lose my data in the process.

    I will then configure my drives as RAID 1 (mirror) and HOPEFULLY restore my old image with universal restore. Then I will have RAID 1 mirror and THAT will become my first safety net. These DVDs for me are really about making the change without losing my settings and programs.

    Can you tell me, if Acronis successfully verifies my DVD image, does that mean its OK. Is that equivalent to getting a good Nero quality score?
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2007
  11. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    I could be misremembering, but I'm pretty sure I've done RAID 0 to RAID 1 restores (or maybe the other way around) and it work just fine without UR.

    I think that if the RAID drivers are installed, Windows will recognize any RAID setup since it uses the same drivers to access the array.
     
  12. MartinB82

    MartinB82 Registered Member

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    Well we shall see. But I don't think they will be installed at the crucial point in time, because as I explained the first step (after backing up) is to remove the RAID 0 array, and since the data was striped that means you lose your data (and for the time being all your drivers too I would think).
     
  13. bodgy

    bodgy Registered Member

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    You are aware that the latest version of Workstation has just arrived. Might be worth checking if you manage to just fall within the free upgrade option of purchased within 30 days.

    I don't know if this idiosyncrasy has been altered in the latest version.


    Colin
     
  14. MartinB82

    MartinB82 Registered Member

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    What! Oh no. I had been waiting for the next version, but it seemed like it would never come, so I went ahead and got 9.1.

    Hang on, the email giving me the links to my copy of Workstation and UR arrived in my inbox on the 23rd October. Am I in time?
    edit:

    Just a moment 'you are aware'. No, I'm not. I can find no mention of Workstation 9.2 or 10. Edit: See information from "bodgy" below. The naming convention for new versions of corporate products has obviously changed.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2007
  15. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    It doesn't matter if the RAID 0 array is broken or removed. TI always deletes and recreates the partition anyway. If the backup image was created from a working Windows system with the RAID 0 array then the drivers are in the image and installed. When you restore the image to a new RAID setup (RAID 1, for example), the drivers are there and Windows should boot okay (at least it did for me).

    You have nothing to lose, but the time to restore to test if you need UR or not. Just note that if you use UR and you choose to install the RAID drivers during the restore, you'll be installing the SAME drivers that are already installed in the image.
     
  16. MartinB82

    MartinB82 Registered Member

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    Thanks Mudcrab,

    Now, someone get me the sales people who implied that I would need UR for what I wanted to do!

    Perhaps I could have saved and got the home version without UR.

    Frankly the sales people weren't great. I got the impression I'd lost them when I started talking about RAID. Someone told me I would need UR. I may still have the chat transcripts, perhaps I'll email you them.

    Still, the necessary use of UR might still be useful at some point in the future.

    Edit: I've found the original presales email(s). Now I look back on them they are not as clear as they could be, perhaps the Russo/English language barrier wasn't helping.
     
  17. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    Most times, the problems come from changing from a non-RAID system to a RAID system or a RAID system to a non-RAID system. This assumes you're using the same computer and the only thing changed was the RAID setup/level.

    If your image was of a RAID system drive and you restore to that same system with the same or a different RAID setup, I think it should work. There may be more with RAID 5, but RAID 0 and RAID 1 are pretty simple. It probably depends on how the RAID is implemented and supported by the computer's BIOS.
     
  18. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Given I want to use images for disaster recovery, to me the only valid test is a restore. Yes a verification is a good sign as if it doesn't verify, you don't have much chance of a restore. But the final test is the restore. I restore any image I make that I want to count on.

    pete
     
  19. bodgy

    bodgy Registered Member

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    Workstation 9.1 is now Echo Workstation in the latest version as are all the corporate versions.

    Colin
     
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