Please help me choose PSU, CPU cooler, RAM

Discussion in 'hardware' started by tepe2, Dec 30, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. tepe2

    tepe2 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2006
    Posts:
    539
    I will buy new pc. Need help to choose parts. Im not going to build it myself. The webshop will. Here is what I have chosen so far:

    Corsair Obsidian 550D
    Intel® Core i7-3770K
    ASUS P8Z77-V PRO
    Samsung DVD Writer, SH-224BB
    Samsung SSD 840 PROSeries 128GB 2.5"
    2 x Seagate Barracuda® 2TB
    Western Digital My Book® Essential 2TB USB 3.0

    And this is where I need help:

    PSU which one?

    XFX ProSeries Core Edition 650W PSU ATX 12V V2.31, 80 Plus Bronze
    Silver Power SP-S650 650W PSU ATX 12V V2.3, 80 Plus Bronze, Standard
    Silver Power SP-S750M 750W PSU ATX 12V V2.3, 80 Plus Bronze

    RAM:

    Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600MHz 16GB CL9 Kit w/4x 4GB XMS3 modules, CL9-9-9-24, 1.5V, Vengeance Heatspreader, 240

    Kingston DDR3 HyperX blu 1600MHz 16GB 8GB 2Rx8 1G x 64-Bit x 2, DDR3-1600, CL10, 240-Pin DIMM Kit

    GeForce GTX 660Ti 2GB PhysX CUDA PCI-Express 3.0 All three looks the same but different manufactor. And Asus has 2 fans:
    http://www.komplett.no/k/ki.aspx?sku=759240&CKS=PCW
    http://www.komplett.no/k/ki.aspx?sku=759660&CKS=PCW
    http://www.komplett.no/k/ki.aspx?sku=761147&CKS=PCW

    CPU cooler:

    Corsair H40 Hydro Series CPU
    Corsair H60 Hydro Series CPU
    Intel® High Performance Liquid Cooling
    or just stay with the stock cooler?

    Note: I can only choose from the parts listed above.

    Im not sure I want one of those water cooling systems listed above. I have read they can be noisy and poor quality.

    I can of course stay with Intels stock cooler. If it is not as good as I hope I can buy a better one. But I would like to avoid that.
     
  2. nosirrah

    nosirrah Malware Fighter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2006
    Posts:
    561
    Location:
    Cummington MA USA
    Intel® Core i7-3770K

    The K means that this CPU is unlocked and can be overclocked with ease so Id go with liquid cooling, might as well get the extra performance. Sandy and Ivy bridge CPUs also offer turbo OC which allows you to only OC the maximum turbo multiplier. The result is that you CPU only runs over spec when you push it while keeping power saving enabled. My system runs like this and can hit 4.6 ghz when pushed but runs under 2 ghz when idle. Corsair H60 <- Id go with this one.

    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 Ti <- all 3 gfx cards are based on the same base tech so just choose the cheapest one. The extra fans allow you to OC the card more but I personally do not recommend gfx card OCing as I have seen many cards go down due to this while I have only seen 1 dead CPU due to heat.

    Kingston DDR3 HyperX blu 1600MHz 16GB 8GB 2Rx8 1G x 64-Bit x 2, DDR3-1600, CL10, 240-Pin DIMM Kit

    Always go with 2 sticks over 4 sticks as this makes things a lot easier on your memory controller. This also often allows T1 timing to be completely stable where 4 sticks often can force you to use T2.
     
  3. tepe2

    tepe2 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2006
    Posts:
    539
    Thank you so much.

    I go for Kingston ram.

    Will 2 fans on Asus 660Ti card make more noise than EVGA and Gainward cards? I would like to buy the card with less noise.

    I might OC one day. Maybe I go for H60 cooler.
     
  4. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Posts:
    2,272
    Location:
    Nebraska, USA
    You neglected to state the purpose of this computer.

    Make sure you do your homework first. Overclocking ALWAYS includes increased heat concerns, risks and potential disastrous consequences.

    1. Using any cooler besides the one provided by Intel (or AMD) on CPUs that come packaged with a supplied cooler voids the warranty (read your warranty - it's in there) - if you don't care about your warranty, no problem. But this is information everyone should know BEFORE jumping in.

    2. Overclocking (using voltages not in accordance with CPU specifications) voids the warranty (that's in there too).

    3. Motherboard designers purposefully cluster heat sensitive and heat generating parts around the CPU socket to take advantage of the expected OEM cooler. Aftermarket HSF coolers are often oriented differently (they may fire horizontally instead of down onto the CPU). And water cooling provides zero air to those heat sensitive components.​
    Remember, it is the case's responsibility to provide an adequate "flow" of cool air through the case. The CPU cooler only needs to toss up the CPU's heat into that flow. So ensure you have a quality case with lots of large (120mm or large) fan support. I like Antec cases.

    I don't see a case listed.

    For sure, that is my recommendation. Understand because both AMD and Intel warranty their coolers for 3 full years (most aftermarket cooler warranties are for just 1 year, sometimes just 90 days) and because they don't want to replace the coolers or CPUs under warranty because of fan failure, the OEM coolers are excellent - fully capable of providing more than adequate CPU cooling for the vast majority of users - even with mild to moderate overclocking.

    If someone tells you OEM coolers are junk, they don't know what they are talking about. The only time I don't use OEM coolers anymore is for HTPC (home theater PC) builds where "silent running" is essential. And then I may go for a quality, ultra-quiet cooler, or a passive (giant heatsink, no fan) cooler.

    For your PSU, first, I applaud you for ensuring your options are 80-Plus certified. That ensures the PSUs have a near linear (flat) efficiency rating across a wide range of expected loads - a very good thing. And it takes a good design with quality parts to achieve linear efficiency across a wide range of loads. I have never heard of Silver Power so I personally would avoid it and go with XFX.

    I also don't see an operating system listed. A common mistake is some users assume they can use their old Windows license on a new computer or when upgrading their motherboards. Understand only a "boxed" full Retail license can be transferred to a new computer (or upgraded motherboard). It is illegal to use an OEM license that came with or was purchased for one computer on another computer. A disk “branded” with a computer maker’s brand name, or is labeled with “OEM/System Builder”, “Upgrade”, “Academic Edition”, or "For Distribution with a new PC only", is not transferable to a new PC (or upgraded motherboard) under any circumstances. These OEM licenses are inextricably tied to the "original equipment". So if that is the case, I recommend 64-bit Windows 7 or one of the many free Linux alternatives. Just ensure it is 64-bit since you have selected more than 4Gb of RAM. Note I am just the messenger stating the facts. This is all in the EULAs we agree to abide by when we first use our OEM software.
     
  5. nosirrah

    nosirrah Malware Fighter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2006
    Posts:
    561
    Location:
    Cummington MA USA
    You would have to search around for review sites. Almost every review will have a noise level section comparing the card to different cards.
    I would only go this way if he is 100% sure he does not want to OC and in that case I would also look into saving some $ and avoid the K version CPU as they offer nothing at all over the basic model other than the ability to OC.
     
  6. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Posts:
    2,272
    Location:
    Nebraska, USA
    This suggests voiding the warranty by getting an aftermarket cooler now, in the event one day down the road, he might OC. I disagree.

    I recommend sticking with the OEM cooler now even with the K model CPU. Then, if one day, later on down the road there is the desire to do some extreme OCing, he can then replace the OEM cooler with an aftermarket one - if the OEM cooler fails to provide adequate cooling.

    In this way, all options are open, and the warranty remains intact.

    If OCing is off the table, then I agree and get the less expensive CPU.

    As for fans, you cannot assume 2 fans are noisier than 1. Fan noise is more a function of bearing quality, blade and housing design, size, and of course, rotation speed. And also it should be pointed out that noise suppression is a function of the case too.
     
  7. nosirrah

    nosirrah Malware Fighter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2006
    Posts:
    561
    Location:
    Cummington MA USA
    You may have missed this Bill. My assumption reading this is that he is willing to pay extra for this service because he is not an expert when it comes to PCs and as a result will not be doing major hardware upgrades in the future (pulling off cooling and replacing it with liquid cooling is not something I would recommend anyone do unless they were an expert).

    OCing the max turbo multiplier on the other hand is super simple, make it 4.4 instead of 3.9 and you are done. Most modern motherboards even support BIOS/UEFI modifications like this directly from windows so this is not an expert level tweak.
     
  8. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Posts:
    2,272
    Location:
    Nebraska, USA
    I saw that but it does not change the facts about the warranty and that is all I am trying to point out. If preserving the 3 year warranty is important to the buyers, they need to be aware of the terms of that warranty so they don't violate those terms. And again, if not important, they should still be aware of the consequences. That's all.

    I agree it is super simple and I also agree motherboard makers are supporting it. But it should be noted that no motherboard maker is going to replace your CPU if their OCed board fries the CPU.

    FTR, I am not against overclocking. I am against overclocking without the necessary due diligence first. It is not just about voiding the warranty that I am concerned about. It is the added heat and stress on ALL the affected components I worry about.

    Another problem I have seen too often with alternative cooling solutions, in particular water cooling is diminishing "preventative maintenance". Users are typically very diligent for the first 6 months to a year when it comes to inspecting for leaks and other issues but as times marches on, the inspections too often become longer in between when the reality is, as the system ages, hoses become rigid, clamps come loose, all sorts of nasty bio-hazards start to grow inside, inspections should increase in frequency, not decrease.

    It is easy to do overclocking right, but in my experience, it is easier to do it wrong.
     
  9. tepe2

    tepe2 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2006
    Posts:
    539
    Lots of info. Thanks.

    First of all. The case is listed in my first post. Corsair Obsidian 550D
    http://www.komplett.no/k/ki.aspx?sku=746611&CKS=PCW

    I have not bought this computer yet. When I do I will buy it with Microsoft Windows 8 64bit.

    This is a typical gaming computer. But Im not a gamer. Regular use and work with home videos.

    3770 or 3770K? In the offer I get from this webshop the price different is very small. Almost non. So I buy K-version. It does not mean I will OC. Never done it before but who knows.

    OC, warranty etc... I know

    Interesting because this is what I have been told. They say OEM coolers does not cool enough and are too noisy. If this is not correct I may go for OEM cooler.

    You are right. Im not an expert. I did build a couple of computers at school with the help from a teacher. But that was in 1990. I would like to avoid building myself. But I consider to go for OEM cooler. It is not the end of the world if I some day have to replace it myself.

    PSU - I think they are both good enough. But I read somewhere that XFX make more noise. Will have to search for more info about that.
     
  10. tepe2

    tepe2 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2006
    Posts:
    539
  11. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Posts:
    2,272
    Location:
    Nebraska, USA
    Then you don't need to OC. In fact, having a sufficient amount of RAM and a decent graphics solution will benefit you most - even with a lessor CPU. Remember, today's computing is highly graphics oriented. The more capable the graphics solution, the faster more graphics tasks can be handed over to the graphics solution - and it takes very little CPU horsepower to hand off tasks.

    Maybe 10 years ago with cheap cases that was true, but not today. Both Intel and AMD know users don't like fan noise so they both use quality bearings and good designs to ensure proper cooling and low noise. No, they are not the quietest fans, but they are pretty quiet and more importantly, efficient at their job.

    Think about it for a second. It makes no sense for them to provide cheap coolers that don't cool adequately. That will only make users very upset. And the fact is, the vast majority of users use the OEM coolers. If they were bad as your ill-informed advisors are telling you, there would be 100s of millions of overheated disgruntled users out there. And it is not happening.

    Just like on cars - you don't automatically replace the radiator on your brand new car do you? Surely not if your plans are to operate the car in "normal" conditions as the vast majority of car owners do. If you will be taking your brand new car to the race track, then yes, you might beef up the cooling - but of course, Porsche (or the aftermarket radiator maker) is NOT going to cover motor replacement if you blow it up while racing - even though it is race car.

    It is not necessary to achieve the coolest possible temps. Cooler temps are desired but it is only necessary to keep the CPU well within its normal "operating range" to ensure stable operation, and a normal lifespan.

    As for noise, CPUs are located deep in the middle of the system. It is far more likely any fan noise you hear will be from the graphics card, PSU or case fans - fans that are located right next too, or attached to the case outer walls.

    It is important to note too, with good case cooling, the CPU fan will likely toggle down in speed - and noise.

    If you decide down the road to OC, and the OEM cooler does not keep your temps in a safe range (I don't like my CPUs to go over 60°C) then that cooler will likely be fine - assuming the mating surfaces are cleaned and a new, proper layer of good TIM (thermal interface material) is applied.
     
  12. nosirrah

    nosirrah Malware Fighter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2006
    Posts:
    561
    Location:
    Cummington MA USA
    Junk? No. Is there a substantial change going from OEM to aftermarket cooling? Oh yes. I have a Thermaltake Water 2.0 Extreme in my workstation and it holds temps under 25 C, usually under 22 C. There is no way an OEM cooler could do this. FYI the case is also loaded with good cooling so the actual MOBO does have solid airflow.

    I am not saying that stock cooling is terrible, just that it is not amazing. Keep in mind that I am also not saying that you need amazing cooling, only that if you OC you are going to want to have it.

    I am not sure if you have read up on or used the new turbo OC functionality but it is far better and safer than OCing used to be. 99.9% of the time there will be no OC at all and usually you will actually be running under stock due to power saving. All turbo OC does is allow the CPU to clock higher when pushed and since it is a change to the upper cap instead of a forced clock you are still protected by thermal throttling. In short OCing a Sandy/Ivy bridge CPU is not at all the same as OCing the CPUs that came before them.
     
  13. tepe2

    tepe2 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2006
    Posts:
    539
    And again thanks to the both of you.

    I have decided not to replace the cooler. I go for the OEM and save money. Or spend that money on other parts :) I could of course change my mind in the future if I decide to OC.

    The Corsair Obsidian 550D Midi Tower has noise reduction. And theres place for more fans if needed.
     
  14. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Posts:
    2,272
    Location:
    Nebraska, USA
    Right - keep your options open. That said, you are talking about a screaming 3.5/3.9GHz quad core, massive amounts of fast RAM for the CPU and OS to play in, and a bad-a$$ graphics card. And you are not a gamer. This system will be running at or near idle almost all the time! This will be the most powerful "standard" computer in your neighborhood - without overclocking! ;)

    I agree. You don't need amazing cooling. You only need good cooling. Wants and needs are two different things. I don't need two big widescreen monitors on my computer, but I want them - and have them! :D

    I'm all about controlling heat, as reflected in my sig. But CPU performance (or lifespan) does improve when going from "good" cooling to "amazing" cooling. Amazing is only for bragging rights - and 22°C is worth bragging about! But today's CPUs are typically extremely stable up to at least 65°C, and often to 70°C - though I don't recommend running them at that temp for long stretches of time. If the stock OEM cooler keeps the CPU below 60° when pushed, the CPU should remain stable and thus be good to go - regardless of clocking.

    Yeah, I understand that. In fact, some purist would say it is not really overclocking at all. And I would have to agree. It is more a marketing tactic. The engineers design the CPUs to run safely at full (100%) throttle. But then Marketing sticks their mitts in there and toggles them down 8-10% before packaging and calls that "normal mode" and "turbo ready". When kicked into "Turbo" mode" (another marketing term) the CPU is toggled back up to full (100%) speed. Not 110%. And they design/choose an OEM cooler to support that CPU running at 100% 24/7/365 too!

    But note it is not always the CPU that fails first. When a system is overclocked, it is not just the CPU that is working harder. There are many components on the motherboard and inside the PSU that are being pushed too. I am glad the chipset and motherboard makers have gotten together with the CPU makers to make this easier, and safer. Today's overclocking "wizards" are much easier than my early overclocking efforts - when we had to solder jumpers on motherboards! Overclocking increases stress on nearly all components - most often with no problems. But not always. And even though these wizards provided by the motherboard makers make it easy, no motherboard maker is going to replace your CPU for free, should a failed motherboard take out your CPU (and RAM, graphics and anything else connected to it! :().
     
  15. Firecat

    Firecat Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2005
    Posts:
    7,927
    Location:
    The land of no identity :D
    My recommendation:

    1) Stick with the OEM cooler. Do get some good thermal paste though and use that instead of the stock paste, it makes a difference.

    2) If you wish to save some money, try for an ASRock or Biostar board instead of Asus. They are reliable enough. Models I recommend are ASRock Z77 Extreme4 and Biostar TZ77XE3/XE4. They should be comparable to your Asus board.

    3) Go for the Corsair Vengeance RAM. AFAIK Kingston HyperX Blu are rated for 1.65V while Corsair is rated for 1.5V. Low volts is always better for RAM.

    3) If you live in the US, I would recommend EVGA. Gainward is very, very good - I have nothing but good things to say about Palit, their sister brand (same owner). My personal recommendation is Gainward and EVGA - I don't see much value in paying the premium for Asus.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2013
  16. tepe2

    tepe2 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2006
    Posts:
    539
    Thanks for your replies and advice.

    I have sent my order. (I live in Norway)

    I went for:

    - OEM cooler (if it is not good enough I can do something about it)

    - RAM Kingston 2x8GB (easy to upgrade)

    - Silver Power SP-S750M 750W (I read some user feedback say this one is good and make less noise)

    - Asus GTX 660Ti (I would have to pay more for EVGA and Gainward at this website special offer. But at normal price Asus is most expensive. I made a search for review and this Asus card impress. Not much noise. But Im sure all 3 are good)

    Also this:

    Corsair Obsidian 550D
    Intel® Core i7-3770K
    ASUS P8Z77-V PRO
    Samsung DVD Writer, SH-224BB
    Samsung SSD 840 PROSeries 128GB 2.5"
    2 x Seagate Barracuda® 2TB

    I have not made order for external hdd yet. Not sure I want WD. I bought one 500GB WD ext. a few years ago. Not happy with it. May go for Seagate or other.
     
  17. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Posts:
    2,272
    Location:
    Nebraska, USA
    I still don't see an operating system listed. Remember, new computers require new licenses.

    And FTR, I would have gone with the ASUS card too.
     
  18. tepe2

    tepe2 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2006
    Posts:
    539
    Antall Varenr. Beskrivelse
    1.00 766169 Komplett Gamer i20
    1.00 768241 nVIDIA's Assassin`s Creed III (Voucher)
    only for GTX650/650Ti/660/660Ti/670/680/690
    1.00 200504 Støtsikker PC-eske
    1.00 605781 SteelSeries QcK, Musematte i Tøy
    Professional Cloth Mousepad (med Komplett logo)
    1.00 746611 Corsair Obsidian 550D Midi Tower Sort
    Vifter: 2x 120mm Front, 1x 120mm Bak , Støydempet,
    1.00 660225 Intel® Core i7-3770K Processor
    Socket-LGA1155, Quad Core, 3.5GHz, 8MB, 77W, HD400
    1.00 657495 Silver Power SP-S750M 750W PSU
    ATX 12V V2.3, 80 Plus Bronze, Modular, 4x 6+2pin P
    1.00 746634 ASUS P8Z77-V PRO, Socket-1155
    ATX, Z77, DDR3, 2xG3+1xG2-PCIe-x16,SLI/CFX, VGA, D
    1.00 751787 Kingston DDR3 HyperX blu 1600MHz 16GB
    8GB 2Rx8 1G x 64-Bit x 2, DDR3-1600, CL10, 240-Pin
    1.00 759240 ASUS GeForce GTX 660Ti 2GB PhysX CUDA
    PCI-Express 3.0, with Assasin's Creed III
    1.00 761524 Samsung DVD Writer, SH-224BB
    SATA, DVD±R: 24x, DVD±R DL: 8x, CD-R: 48x, Bulk, B
    1.00 765948 Samsung SSD 840 PROSeries 128GB 2.5" OEM
    Basic Kit, MDX controller, 530/390MB/s Read/write
    1.00 653071 Seagate Barracuda® 2TB
    SATA 6Gb/s (SATA 3.0), 64MB Cache, 7200RPM, 3.5"
    1.00 653071 Seagate Barracuda® 2TB
    SATA 6Gb/s (SATA 3.0), 64MB Cache, 7200RPM, 3.5"
    1.00 493630 Microsoft Wireless Comfort Desktop 5000
    USB, Nordic Layout, Tastatur, hurtig knapper, Blue
    1.00 765774 MS ROYALTY Win 8 Nordic
    32/64 bit

    1.00 760848 MS COA Win 8 32-bit/x64 Nordic
    Nordic, 32/64 bit

    1.00 761882 Dell 27" LCD UltraSharp U2713HM
    2560x1440, 2M:1, 8ms, VGA/DVI/DP, IPS, Height adju
    1.00 200502 Garanti 3 år - Sende inn

    I chose Win 8.

    Also Dell 27" LCD UltraSharp U2713HM 2540x1440 16:9. I still dont know if this was the right choice for me or if I should buy 24" 1920x1200 16:10. I have an own thread for that. I still have the option to change my order. But I may go for 27". More than double the price but still.

    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=338916
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2013
  19. Firecat

    Firecat Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2005
    Posts:
    7,927
    Location:
    The land of no identity :D
    I still say get the Corsair Vengeance RAM instead of Kingston HyperX Blu. The lower voltage will be good for the life time of your CPU. It's CL9 too instead of CL10 and that should help your performance a bit.
     
  20. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Posts:
    2,272
    Location:
    Nebraska, USA
    As long as it does not exceed 1.65V, there is no problem. Heat is a much greater factor when comes to longevity.
     
  21. Firecat

    Firecat Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2005
    Posts:
    7,927
    Location:
    The land of no identity :D
    But surely CL9 rated RAM would be better, both for stock performance and for OCing than CL10 rated RAM?

    Of course, hardly a significant difference, but still :)
     
  22. Noob

    Noob Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2009
    Posts:
    6,468
    This PC will probably cover his needs for at least half a decade as long as he's not really into gaming. :rolleyes:
     
  23. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Posts:
    2,272
    Location:
    Nebraska, USA
    That's the thing. BY FAR, of much greater importance in terms of performance is the amount of RAM, rather than which is a few nanoseconds faster.

    IF RAM speed was as important as the RAM maker marketing weenies want us to believe, and IF budget didn't matter, then I would say get the fastest RAM you can afford.

    But there are way too many other, and much bigger bottlenecks - including the biggies: Internet bandwidth and drive access.

    Now wait! That's hardly a fair or accurate statement. We are still talking about an Intel® Core i7-3770K, 16Gb of RAM, GTX 660Ti graphics, SSD and fast HDs, and a fairly high-end ASUS PRO motherboard.

    This system will easily game (and just about any other task) with excellent results - overclocking or not. You do not need the fastest of everything to achieve top performance and good game play! The vast majority of gamers have much less capable systems - a fact the game makers are fully aware of so they code game to provide good game play with much lessor systems yet!
     
  24. tepe2

    tepe2 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2006
    Posts:
    539
    No gaming here :)
     
  25. Noob

    Noob Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2009
    Posts:
    6,468
    Now that's true. I thought it was not a good gaming build because i forgot that the Nvidia 600 series is the latest one, i was thinking they were already on the 800 series. :D
     
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.