Out-of-date software is what’s driving people to constantly replace their devices

behind a paywall

 

Sure is. But yes, I'm sure most several years outdated devices would run the latest software but there is less profit in that so they refuse to give you that update.

 

Yeah, it seems the definition of "planned obsolesce" has changed in recent years. In the past, it was all about a product failing, wearing out, or performance degrading due to intentional poor design. Or intentionally using inferior parts so these devices would become less capable or even useless after some (more or less) predetermined amount of time - like within 24 hours after the warranty ran out.

But particularly with computing devices, and even more so with "proprietary" computing devices, and especially so when the same company develops both the hardware and the software (like Apple), "planned obsolesce" now has become much about "compatibility" with the latest and greatest and nothing about product degradation or failure.

I do understand some being inevitable. Microsoft, for example, did not develop W11 to force everyone to go out and buy new hardware that supports W11. Microsoft does not dictate what Intel or AMD will support, nor vice versa. Hardware and software (at least when developed by different companies) advance the state-of-the-art at their own pace.

And of course, there is the monkey wrench - the bad guys who force changes on us in the way of new security features and techniques have become necessary that only available with the latest HW and SW.

But at the same time, why doesn't W11 in my laptop support printing to my old HP printer? It is because HP, not MS, but HP refuses to develop and release W11 drivers for my old printer and instead, wants me to buy one of their new printers. Yes, I understand they get $0.00 returns on those expenditures (providing support for legacy products). But is it fair the consumer carry the entire burden?

 

I don't believe this. Can't prove it but there is collusion. And M$ could easily make W11 support much older hardware. I am currently running W11P on a 2013 ThinkPad using the Rufus method.

 

No, sorry, but that is not true.

Once again, it is NOT Microsoft's job to configure Windows to support legacy hardware. That lesson was learned long ago with XP. That is what hardware drivers are for and it is the hardware maker's job to develop those drivers, not Microsoft's.

There are 10s of 1000s (100s of 1000s!) of hardware devices out there. No way Microsoft can code Windows to support them all - ESPECIALLY when the hardware makers add their own unique features in their attempt to make their products stand out from the rest. And especially when the hardware makers themselves no longer support their own obsolete, legacy stuff.

It is Microsoft's job to include "basic" hardware functions for "necessary" hardware devices like CPUs, RAM, keyboards, mice, storage devices, I/O interfaces and graphics - so users are able to operate their computers at a basic level BEFORE all the custom drivers (and even the OS itself) are even installed. And MS does that.

Then there is the security issue. We MUST remember the lessons learned in the past. When XP was in development, big corporations insisted XP support their legacy DOS/W95 era hardware and software so they would not have to retool - again - even though many of those obsolete protocols and hardware devices had significant security vulnerabilities - brought on by advances made by the bad guys since those products came out.

AT THE SAME TIME, Microsoft wanted to include AV code in XP but Norton, McAfee, Trend Micro, CA and others whined and cried "monopoly" to Congress and the EU, complaining that it was their job to rid the world of malware and that Microsoft was trying to rule the world. Microsoft was, but that's a different issue.

Congress and the EU heard the word "monopoly" and that was it. They threatened to split up Microsoft Ma Bell style if Microsoft didn't remove the AV code and let Norton and McAfee take care of protecting us from the bad guys. We see how well that went!

So at the risk of losing sales from big industry, and being split up forcefully, Microsoft relented and removed the AV code and added much support for legacy products.

Then what happened? The bad guys moved in and exploited those vulnerabilities. But who got relentlessly blamed by the IT press and MS haters like you, japjb, for the next 10 years and beyond and still to this day? Norton and McAfee? Nope. Big business? Nope. The badguys?!?!? Nope. Microsoft got blamed.

So MS decided they would rather be blamed for lack of legacy support and lack of flexibility than get blamed for the malicious actions of the bad guys. And they were right to take that path.

Okay. So? Is your one-off anecdotal example supposed to prove all other points are moot?

Come on! You can't prove it because it does not exist. Congress, the EU and every investigative reporter and news outlet, and every disgruntled former insider has tried to prove it for decades. But it didn't happen.

Are you seriously trying to convince everyone here (and yourself) that Microsoft, Intel, AMD, ASUS, Gigabyte, MSI, WD, Samsung, Acer, Sony, HP, Epson, Brother, Apple, Foxconn, IBM, Lenovo, LG, Dell and all the others are so clever and in such tight agreement to commit such a colossal (and totally illegal) conspiracy? So smart and able to keep such a secret for so long they can pull off such a feat off and not get caught? Really, zapjb?

 

W11P on my 2013 ThinkPad using the Rufus method is proof W11 could run on 10's of millions of older PCs. M$ would just have to get rid of or turn down the requirements of their hardware verification on install media. Dead simple. It's a money grab.

 

First, that is not proof. It just shows where one device was able to support W11.

Second, you missed (or totally ignored) the security factor - the exact reason to ensure users have the latest, most secure hardware. Hardware features and hardware state-of-the-art, by the way, that was NOT developed by or sold by Microsoft.

Third, it is not a money grab because, again, the hardware was not made or sold by Microsoft.

Having said that, since you ignored everything else said, particularly everything about how this would have to be the biggest conspiracy (among competing companies no less) in all of history, it is clear your mind is set.

What also is clear is how you really don't understand Microsoft at all, or how they make their money.

The fact is, Microsoft could sell off Windows and barely notice. Windows brings in only 12% of Microsoft revenue - WAY behind Office and Azure Cloud - none of which have to do with Microsoft selling hardware.

So, moving on.

 

Thanks @Bill_Bright - That statement right there if factual, sure rings true enough on why WINDOWS is turned into such a difficult demand for software developers and user's alike when it comes to having to constantly readjust due that constant update nonsense. Just when the user or developer has refined software to run picture perfect without issue, MS Windows Dept see's fit to find a way to knock things right out of alignment time & again. No wonder they keep pressing ahead to yet another series (next up 12) when they throw in the towel on the previous releases before finishing the product without issue first.

 

I am saying without proof I believe there is collusion between the 2. Might take a decade or 2 for the proof to surface. This is like the tobacco industry before their partial reckoning.

 

Windows 11 does natively support old hardware. However, Microsoft decided to limit the hardware it will run on. Apparently one of their corporate clients wanted to be able to run it on old hardware and that is why Microsoft included the bypass which lets you install it on unsupported hardware and even published an article with instructions, on how to create the needed registry keys to use the bypass.

 

"...Microsoft decided to limit the hardware it will run on..."

Exactly. A money grab.

 

Sadly, it seems you too fail to see the big picture. I am NOT saying Microsoft is totally innocent here. But you, along with zapjb, seem to believe Microsoft not only owns, but is driving the bus when it comes to advances in computer technologies. That is just plain wrong. They are not even in charge of driving the bus.

Who sets the ATX Form Factor standard? Not Microsoft. It is actually Intel and a host of other hardware makers - manufacturers who set their own development path.

Yes, Microsoft is in there, but not the leader. Same with HP, IBM, ASUS, Gigabyte, Epson, Apple, Samsung, Micro and many others.

Who sets the standards for USB, PCIe, graphics and networking (Ethernet and wifi) protocols? If you say Microsoft, you are just wrong!!!! Ever heard of IEEE?

Yeah right. That's why Microsoft gave away for free, 100s of millions of Windows 10 licenses and made upgrading to W11 for millions and millions of users totally free too. That's why Microsoft forced you to buy their latest OS.

Hating Microsoft is fine. I don't care about that. You are entitled to your opinion and I will defend you stating it. But you are not entitled to your own facts.

 

Agreed, I used the "/product server" switch to upgrade about 10 4th gen i7 PCs and they all run fine.

 

Not always.
If you Google "Why Windows 7 Won't Work On Intel's Current & Next Gen CPUs" you will see "Microsoft doesn't want you to use old Windows versions on new hardware. Users on Intel Skylake processors won't receive updates for Windows 7 after July 2017. And next generation processors will be Windows 10 only".

Nevertheless, all this is a storm in a teacup.
If you want to use W7 without OS or Security backups then go ahead. No-one is stopping you.
Just don't keep whinging about what you can no longer do, or the extra security measures you need to take.
Self inflicted wounds don't rate any sympathy.

Here in Australia all Telstra 3G connectivity across the 2100 MHz spectrum closed on March 25, 2019. Telstra devices on the 850MHz spectrum are still functional. Telstra will close all 3G services on June 30, 2024.

And that's it. Thank you linesmen, thank you ball boys!
There comes a time when you have to upgrade, no matter how much you like your "old hardware/software/way of life".

 

Logic is simple: new computer usually means new licence need. From the article you posted

Microsoft benefits from product like Windows not directly also: it was a way to raise their future customers (they became employes familiar with Windows), or reach out to them and suggest paid or services such as Outlook, OneDrive etc

Microsoft has leverage to influence decisions of hardware (and firmware) manufacturers by certifications of drivers and whole devices (Windows Ready, Windows compatible).

 

Come on! You took that totally out of context. Intel leads the group of companies that establish motherboard, case and power supply form factor standards. Always have.

Just because Intel leads the group, that does not mean they have final say in every standard set. And in the very next line, I said Microsoft is in there too.

And BTW, Intel put the extra security code in their latest CPUs all on their own. Why? Because Intel does not want to be blamed for the nefarious deeds of the bad guys either.

As for W7, Microsoft made it clear, as did I, they will not be supporting legacy hardware. And rightfully so. Legacy hardware and legacy software does not meet the security requirements needed today - requirements needed because of the bad guys and the failure of the anti-malware industry (and our elected officials) to stop the bad guys.

Now that I totally agree with.

New computer - that Microsoft did NOT force you to buy - also means more revenue for the CPU, motherboard, RAM drive, case, power supply, monitor makers too.

And okay, 59% of Windows sales. But as noted above, Windows is only 12% of Microsoft revenue. So just 7.08% of all revenue comes from those OEM sales. Yep. Big money grab there alright.

 

7.08% of $198 billion? I'd take .01% of that and still be happy.

 

if someone hates microsoft, then stop using their products, dont bother with empty words. seriously.

ofc i have my own outdated hardware, but i am able to use it with circumstances, bit work, but acceptable from time to time. anyhow i can get (and got) hardware, a replacement for my epson GT 700 scanner, for win10/11 with current drivers. just luck.

my samsung smartphone is outdated, but its better in parts than my current xiaomi.

i dont care about samsung or apple brand new products, my xiaomi is a expression of this.
i know about benefits of apple devices, but they will limit my work, so i would buy anytime an android device. next one is considered an android tablet.

 

Sure. Me too. But I would rather have a share of Walmart, Amazon, Alphabet (Google), Apple, even Costco. They are way bigger than that money grabbing, greedy Microsoft.

BTW, Windows XP Pro cost $199 when new. Now, 22+ years later and Windows 11 Pro costs... ...$199. Yep, a real money grab there too.

Exactly!

But isn't it a shame that businesses expect to make a profit? I mean why should consumers care if they have to pay their employees a good salary? Shouldn't all these businesses be forced to just give their products away?

 

Making newer hardware a requirement when it's a false "need" is my gripe with MS.

 

upgrades from win7/8 to win10/11 were free for 8 years now (no longer possible), yeah, really a "profit company". market share is important

 

This. These are the Windows 11 requirements. I was able to install mine with a command line switch and it runs fine.

• Processor – 1 gigahertz (GHz) or faster with 2 or more cores on a compatible 64-bit processor or System on a Chip (SoC) (see below for more information) --- Nope, I'm running a 2nd gen i7.
  
• Memory – 4 gigabyte (GB) or greater -- I am running 16 GB
  
• Storage – 64 GB or more of available storage space -- Yes
  
• System Firmware – UEFI, Secure Boot Capable (see below for more information) -- No and no.
  
• TPM – Trusted Platform Module (TPM) version 2.0 (see below for more information) -- No TPM at all.
  
• Graphics Card – Compatible with DirectX 12 or later with WDDM 2.0 driver -- Yes (was upgraded when original card died).
  
• Display – High definition (720p) display that is 9” or greater diagonally, 8 bits per color channel -- Yes.
  
• Internet connection: Internet connectivity is necessary to perform updates, and to download and use some features -- Yes.

So yes, the requirements are not necessary. While I do not agree in simple terms that this is a "money grab" on the part of Microsoft, you can't ignore the fact that the posted specs are intended to make me upgrade the hardware.

 

official minimum is an intel 8th gen, not less. 4gb, better 8gb ram, an ssd recommmended, and ofc tpm 2.0.
MBR is possible, uefi recommended.
anyhow a C2D and a 160gb HDD may run it also, but veeeeryyyyy slow from what i have seen, updates could not perform that fast as it is needed (throws error). an intel quad, 8gb and ssd run smooth, but 8th gen runs better.

#typo