NTFS versus FAT Format

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by donwhit, Nov 22, 2006.

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  1. QuiGonJohn

    QuiGonJohn Registered Member

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    Is it possible to make an image or backup with ATI10 that is mainly just the MBR.

    In other words, if you have a boot error issue, you could just restore this image, (minimal, like boot.ini, ntldr, etc.), then Windows will boot up.
     
  2. dld

    dld Registered Member

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    To create an image of just the MBR I don't think is possible. You would have to create an image of at least one partition. On restoration you would have the option of restoring the MBR only by ticking the appropriate box.

    http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/96/screenshot029cz3.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2006
  3. seekforever

    seekforever Registered Member

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    Do a Google search on something like: copy mbr and you will find various free utilities that will do it.
     
  4. Tabvla

    Tabvla Registered Member

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    QuiGonJohn posted.....

    The MBR does not contain the files that you mention therefore being able to create an image of the MBR only would not achieve your objective.

    However, you do have the right idea, in that having a way to boot, should a critical boot file become corrupted, is very useful.

    In order to start (boot) Windows XP requires access to 3 files which collectively are known as the XP “boot loader”. These files are: -

    • ntldr – boot strap loader
    • ntdetect.com – collects information relevant to the system hardware
    • boot.ini – specifies location(s) of operating system(s)

    The simplest way to achieve what you want is to create a boot floppy.

    • Logon as Administrator
    • Insert a new floppy disk into A: and format it
    • Navigate to the root folder of the operating system, normally C:\
    • Locate ntldr, ntdetect.com, boot.ini Copy & Paste them to the floppy
    Important: make sure that you COPY the files and don’t move them.
    • Leave the floppy disk in A:
    • Restart
    • If your computer BIOS has been setup so that it first "looks" at the floppy for the boot files then the computer should start normally, except that it will now be booting from the floppy
    Keep the floppy in a safe place for the day that a critical boot file becomes corrupted.
     
  5. donwhit

    donwhit Registered Member

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    Tabvla,

    1. I have followed your instructions carefully reference installation of the new internal data drive. I have labeled it for reference as Data Drive (H:/) and is installed. I have checked all the hard drives in Windows Disk Management as well as the external USB drive and they all show "Healthy" and partitioned correctly (NTFS). Both internal drives (C:/ System Drive) and (H:/ Data Drive) are SATA. I have been advised not to use Raid in their configuration although it is available on the motherboard if the drivers are loaded prior to OS installation. They were not. The new internal SATA drive is a 300 ATA versus 150 ATA for the original C:/ drive. The motherboard and bios originally supported 150 ATA and I don't know whether the use of the most recent bios I installed now supports 300 as well. (I don't don't whether this is a function of the motherboard hardware or if 300 support is turned on by virtue of the newly upgraded bios) I was told that the new drive is backwards compatible if it does not and the drive is working properly.

    2. I ran what I thought was a complete back-up of the system drive to the USB external drive. The backup shows 47.1 G versus the used portion of the C:/ drive which shows 61.1 G. I checked "My Computer" when I did it. I also went through the validation process after I did the backup. You mentioned that they should closely match in size. Before trying the backup to the new H:/ data drive, please advise if I should do another back up checking something that I missed with the original one.

    3. Also, should I boot from the recovery disc that I made to do this backup or do it within windows? The original thought was to be able to do this when I had only one internal C:/System Disk.

    Thanks again for your time and patience.
     
  6. Tabvla

    Tabvla Registered Member

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    Hi Don

    Good progress :)

    The above numbers look correct for a normal compresssion. My comment ".... closely match in size..." was with reference to the actual disk space in relationship to the quoted disk space after the removal of the ASZ. From your post it seems that all of this is OK.

    Support for 150 or 300 is a function of the onboard SATA disk controller. Because the BIOS (Basic Input Output System) is fundamental to most computing operations it plays its part but the controller is really the thing that in this case would be the determining factor. In a home environment you would not see a noticeable difference between 150 and 300.

    IMPORTANT : SATA 300 is backwards compatible with SATA 150. However, this does not happen automatically. At the rear of the disk is a jumper or slide switch which has to be set at either 300 or 150. If you disks are working then the jumper is in the correct position. If you install a SATA disk and the BIOS does not "see" it then in 90% of cases the problem is simply that the jumper is set incorrectly. Check the documentation that comes with the disk or that is available on the manufacturer's website.

    Opinions vary on the best procedure. I will give you my view.

    1. When backing up the System partition

    I always recommend that users backup the system partition via the bootable CD and Linux shell. The reason for this is that there are always numerous background processes happening on a fairly random basis within a Windows environment. Acronis accommodate for this by taking system "snapshots", and the technology works well in most cases.

    However, I personally, feel more comfortable backing up the System partition from within the Linux kernel because I am absolutely certain then that there is nothing happening in the background which could negatively impact on the validity of the archive.

    (NOTE : The above of course does not apply to backing up Data files which should be backed up from within Windows as they are not impacted by background system processes).

    2. When restoring the System partition

    This should be done from within Windows. Restoring a System partition archive is not impacted by background processes.
     
  7. donwhit

    donwhit Registered Member

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    Hi Tabvla,

    Thanks again for the follow up.

    I did another complete backup and verifcation last evening preparing for the "big day" today when I will test the backup/restore to the second non-system internal drive as you have suggested I do.

    1. I plan to disconnect the system drive C:/, use the recovery CD and restore the complete backup to the internal drive.

    2. Reboot the system using this drive.

    3. Check the integrity of the new restore to see if all programs are working fine and data is there in all related/non-related directories.

    4. Re-connect the system drive C:/ and erase (quick re-format NTFS) the new data disk to remove the system back-up.

    At this point, if all goes well, I assume from what you have said, that I can do the back-ups from now on to either the new internal drive or the external one. In looking at my notes, I believe you said that your preference would be to use the internal one.

    In reference to the 150 vs 300, when I booted the system after the new drive installation, Windows/bios recognized the drive, but I could not access it. I downloaded the latest version of Seagate's Disc wizard (The new drive is a Seagate) which located the drive, enabled Windows support for drives over 120 Gigs, set the NTFS format and "bingo", I was up and running with no problems.

    Will await your reply before I proceed.

    Thanks again for all of the help I have received from you and the forum. I hope that this thread will answer a lot of questions for someone (a "newbie") learning how the program works and being able to execute it properly. The cost of the new (drive) drive's and software is obviously insignificant when you consider the 80-90 hours I have spent in re-constructing what I lost before doing this. I have already reccommended it to several of my associates who like me (an idiot), have not protected themselves for a system crash.
     
  8. Tabvla

    Tabvla Registered Member

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    Seems like you have made great progress. It is always gratifying to see a new user that is prepared to read the User Guide and go slowly and carefully until the procedure is well understood and tested. :D

    A few points for consideration.....

    This disk (or partition) is empty... yes? Just checking because restoring the system partition will fundamentally change the geometry of the disk.

    Make sure that while you are still in Windows that you switch the external USB drive ON and that the drive is recognised and accessible.

    If you have problems with Linux "seeing" the USB drive, just try again. Communication between USB drives and the system under Linux can sometimes be a little hit-and-miss.

    If the restore fails don't panic. This sometimes happens because of timing differences between the motherboard and the USB drive. Just do it again.

    Disks are cheap. Why not simply keep it in a safe place which will then give you an immediate bootable system disk should your normal system go down.

    My personal preference is to
    • Keep all backups on the external USB drive
    • Restore the system backup to a spare hard disk that is used exclusively for this purpose
    • For Data file backups test-restore (or use the Mount Image option) to a spare partition
     
  9. como

    como Registered Member

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    My understanding is that restoring will wipe everything on the disk or partition, in the same way that a format would, my apologies if this is incorrect
     
  10. Tabvla

    Tabvla Registered Member

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    Posted by Como...
    1. If you created a backup via the "Partition" method then when you restore that backup, everything in the destination partition will be wiped out. In fact the first thing that the Restore process does is clear the partition. Therefore you should NEVER test-restore a partition back to the location from where you created the backup. If the restore fails you will be left with a wiped out partition and a corrupt backup. (The files can be restored but only at great cost by a company that specialises in data recovery - very expensive). You should always use either the Mount Image option or test-restore a partition back to a partition that has been specifically set-aside for testing.
      .
    2. If the backup was created usiing the "Files & Folders" method then you can test-restore the backup to a spare partition or simply to a Folder. For example, if you wanted to test-restore your My Documents folder you could simply create a new folder called "MyDocs_TR_01" and test-restore your Files and Folders backup to that folder. Safe and simple.
     
  11. donwhit

    donwhit Registered Member

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    Hi Tabvla,

    1. Using the CD boot disk and disconnecting the Local OS disk c:/, I was able to do a complete restore to the new internal drive. (The software indicated that the restore was complete). The new drive has one partition and formatted NTFS.

    2. Removing the CD, the system booted up into Windows XP, but hung up at the log-in screen. It continued to try to log-in then tried to log off continually playing the Windows log off music over and over.

    3. I turned the system over and re-connected the original system drive leaving the new internal disc in the machine. The system booted up fine and I was able to switch to the new internal disk where the back up was done. The back up looked to be identical.

    4. Any idea why the back up was not completely successful? Since I am the only one using the computer, the system is set to log-in automatically without typing in any log-in information.

    5. As I mentioned before, I did validate the back up on the external drive successfully before I did the back up. The back up, itself took about two hours. When it finished, the message came up saying that the restore was successful.

    Don't know where to go from here.
     
  12. Tabvla

    Tabvla Registered Member

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    Hi Don

    To be honest I am not familiar with automatic logging in. The risks are so high when you set up a system to login automatically that I have never used it personally and would never permit a customer to set up their system as such.

    The only thing that I can think of is that when you activate automatic sign-in that Windows then associates the login with the disk ID as a security measure to prevent someone from imaging your system and then restoring it to another disk. However, this is purely a guess and you would need to check that with an MCSP.

    If my guess above is correct then you will need to do the following:

    • Remove automatic sign-in (which would be a good thing!)
    • Create a new image of your system partition
    • Restore the new image to the spare disk
    • Test

    Let us know when and how you resolve this. An unusual problem which may be helpful to others.
     
  13. donwhit

    donwhit Registered Member

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    Hi Tablva!

    Since I am single and my office is in my home, noone ever uses my computer but me. That is why I have not set up a password protected log on. If I were in a true business environment or had someone at home who was using my computer, I would always password protect it.

    I will follow your instruction and retry the process.

    Since the software is supposed to create a mirror image of the c:/ drive, if it indicates that the image has been created successfully and verified and after restoring it to the second disk drive successfully and verified, you would think that it would boot with no problems regardless of the log-in scenario.

    I have attached a snap shot of the event logs which show successful completion of the back up and verify. What does the entry "changed to low priority" mean. I notice that this has occurred on all of the backups that I have made.

    Don
     

    Attached Files:

  14. Tabvla

    Tabvla Registered Member

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    Hi Don

    You could live on a desert island all by yourself - it would not make any difference, if you don't need a password to login to your computer then neither does every hacker on the planet! Without a login your computer is fair game for every script kiddie, criminal or obnoxious idiot who happens to cross your cyberspace path.

    Again let me precursor my next comment with the statement that I am guessing at what may be the problem. If there is an MCSP on this Forum then perhaps they would be able to confirm or correct my guess.

    Every hard disk has an identifier - the disk ID. It makes a lot of good common sense that the Windows automatic login would only log a user in if the disk ID remained unchanged. If - and again please note I am only guessing - this is what happens then when you restore an image to a different disk the disk ID will no longer be the same. So when you try to automatically login Windows will stop because the disk ID no longer matches the automatic login criteria.

    Now although the above makes a lot of practical sense, it may also be a lot of nonsense!! I simply don't know.
     
  15. donwhit

    donwhit Registered Member

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    Thanks for the advice! I will now and forever use a password protected OS.

    What you have said regarding this makes a lot of sense. Will let you know what happens after I backup using the password log-in.

    Maybe a MCSP will take a look at the thread. If need be if it doesn't work, I will find one.

    Don
     
  16. CatFan432

    CatFan432 Registered Member

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    Tabvla,

    I, too, use automatic login in my XP stand alone computer. To paraphrase Don Rumsfled, (mistyped the name but it looks good this way) I know there are things I don't know and I don't know what they are, but am I correct that once I'm logged in, automatically or manually, I'm dependent on my firewall, antivirus, anti spyware, flu shots, etc. to protect my system, and not login protection? If I'm not logged in, my system is off, powered down.
    Unless a hacker can reach through and power my computer up, isn't the login issue moot in my situation? Not disagreeing with your statement, just want to be properly paranoid.

    CF
     
  17. Xpilot

    Xpilot Registered Member

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    I agree with CatFan432 on this one. From where my computer is sitting behind a hardware firewall, in a router, followed by a software firewall an off site hacker would have a job even finding my computer let alone logging on to it.

    Xpilot
     
  18. Menorcaman

    Menorcaman Retired Moderator

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    Hello Don,

    You will probably find that your default backup priority has been set to Low (gives more CPU time to other applications but TI will take longer to create images). My recommendation would be to set both the Priority and Compression levels to Normal. To change them proceed as follows:

    Run TI and click on Tools > Options. Expand the Default backup options tree, select Backup priority and set it to Normal. In addition, select Compression level and set that to Normal as well. After that, expand the Default restoration options tree, select Restoration priority and set that to Normal also.

    Regards
     
  19. donwhit

    donwhit Registered Member

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    Thanks, Menorcaman!

    Will follow your instructions and do that when I try the next backup! After changing the log-in, plan to give it another try tomorrow!

    Cheers,

    Don
     
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