Norton/Symantec sells out

Discussion in 'other security issues & news' started by Fly, Feb 3, 2009.

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  1. Fuzzfas

    Fuzzfas Registered Member

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    Of course. The world would be too dull if everyone was to agree! :D
     
  2. nosirrah

    nosirrah Malware Fighter

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    We turned them down .

    Twice
     
  3. LoneWolf

    LoneWolf Registered Member

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    Thank You :thumb:
     
  4. CountryGuy

    CountryGuy Registered Member

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    Well, I'm starting to look at alternatives, and while I think I have everything down, the part I'm missing is the site ratings (to replace SafeWeb). SiteAdvisor always worked fine, but they added in their own toolbar as well (at least in their case, its a) free and b) something I can turn off in the settings).

    Any issues of late with SiteAdvisor I should be aware of? Not trying to derail this thread, but I don't know if others are considering alternatives based on this and may want this information as well. Admins -- If you don't feel this is appropriate, I'd be happy to open a new thread as well.
     
  5. aigle

    aigle Registered Member

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    The best and better alternative is Link Scanner. In your case even the free version will do the job.
     
  6. Fuzzfas

    Fuzzfas Registered Member

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    New article from Donna's blog:

    The related article from Larry Seltzer:
    http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Security/Enough-With-the-Browser-Toolbars-Already/

    An interesting find from Corinne (scroll down), about BOClean and ASk (it comments itself):
    http://msmvps.com/blogs/donna/archi...s-symantec-partner-with-ask-com.aspx#comments
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2009
  7. Fly

    Fly Registered Member

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    Issues with the SiteAdvisor ?

    I'm not completely up-to-date. I vaguely recall that I was satisfied with version 2.6, but that changed with version 2.8.

    Last time I checked, if you were to download and install the SiteAdvisor as a standalone application, it would be integrated with your McAfee Security Center, if you have that. I suggest you read the EULA and/or privacy statement for the SiteAdvisor. Last time I checked (and uninstalled!), that was quite extreme.
    You can turn off that toolbar ? Again, last time I checked you could not, or possibly you could make it invisible, but that wouldn't stop it from collecting data and sending it to McAfee and/or others !
     
  8. Fly

    Fly Registered Member

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    I don't know that SafeWeb thing, but from what I understand Link Scanner will examine a URL real-time for malware.

    This is different from the SiteAdvisor (not sure about current version), Browser Defender, MyWot and others that rely on community scores.

    Both approaches have their pros and cons.
     
  9. Fly

    Fly Registered Member

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    Are you sure you didn't change your post ? ;)

    Meat and toys are quite different from software. One could state that such regulations would violate the right of speech (it's all bits and bytes, data, information and code). (You mentioned books) Do you really want 'the government' to mandate standards for books, and require permission for books to be published ?

    I guess we have a different (political) perspectives.

    In general, I think the world is better off with fewer regulations, rather than more.

    I think I'll stop now.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2009
  10. Fuzzfas

    Fuzzfas Registered Member

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    I have also mentioned things specifically about sofware which have nothing to do with allowance to be sold. But you opted in commenting that. ;) Regulations adopt to specific products. Where's the harm in labelling a box? In controlling the category criteria of a product? (for the 100th time). That would violate Norton's right of speech? Or maybe the right of abuse?
     
  11. zfactor

    zfactor Registered Member

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    i just installed this on a system and didnt see anything about the ask bar at least not yet anyway
     
  12. TechOutsider

    TechOutsider Registered Member

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    The ask search thing is in Norton 360 version 3.0, the latest public beta. Eariler version of the public beta; versions prior to 3.0.0.125, lack such a search bar. Anyway's it's not that intrusive. Wonder if someone could change the search provider to Google.... :) instead of ask!

    I'm pretty sure there are ways around this, such as changing FF's install location or deleting your user profile. I'll have to check the possibilities out.
     

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    Last edited: Feb 22, 2009
  13. Thug21

    Thug21 Registered Member

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    Anytime I see some sort of toolbar on paid security software, it makes me think twice before purchasing it. ;)
     
  14. BerserkerPup

    BerserkerPup Registered Member

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    I've got to say, this has been one of the most time-wasting threads ever.

    If they offer Ask, just opt-out. It's a no-brainer. The inclusion of that offer has nothing whatsoever to do with the effectiveness of the Norton program, so to reject the usefulness of the security offering just because you have to check or uncheck a box during the installation - and I would hope that everyone here has enough sense to always choose the "Custom" installation on whatever product they buy just so that they can see what exactly is being installed" - seems to me to be cutting off your nose to spite your face.

    Everyone and their brother is including toolbars and other services during the installation process. They are in the business of making money and this is a quick and easy way for them to do it. It's called capitalism, dears. Realities of the current day sometimes no longer allow the altruism of the past. Reputable companies give you the choice to opt-out. If you're not given the choice, then cancel the installation and find a better piece of software.

    I'm using NAV 2009 now, instead of my previous NOD32. It's a great program, light-years away from the bloat of previous Norton products, and all that was installed was NAV 2009.
     
  15. dw426

    dw426 Registered Member

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    I agree, but you'll just get more arguments from the zealots that prowl around here. You'll spot them pretty quickly, their way of thinking is the only way, and they'll think up the most extreme and/or unlikely scenario to try and prove they're right. I've decided lately that I'm not going to try and reason and argue with them anymore, you can't educate a dead brain. On-topic, yes, this is nothing more than a financial thing, and if they continue to make it opt-out, it hurts no one.

    I no longer have pity for those that don't look for the checkmark box or bother to read the EULA/TOS, if you're in such a hurry to install something that you don't even bother to look at what you're installing, you have no business operating a computer. I used to have an opposite way of thinking, but I've woken up to the realization that some people are born stupid and they'll die stupid.
     
  16. ambient_88

    ambient_88 Registered Member

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    I like the way you think! :)
     
  17. yeuxbleus

    yeuxbleus Registered Member

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    Just writing to say: hear,hear! I too am a glad supporter! I apologize for being off-topic.

    Edit: Spelling and addition
     
  18. Fly

    Fly Registered Member

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    Most people don't notice/understand these issues. Calling this 'capitalism' is rather easy. I'd use the words deception, manipulation, data-theft, privacy violations. It's plain WRONG. And it has nothing to do with capitalism vs. altruism. Preying on people (even if you-pejoratively or not- call them sheep) is wrong.
     
  19. dw426

    dw426 Registered Member

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    *sigh* Fly, I generally think you've got a pretty good brain and usually have pretty good posts that interest me, but this post is one of those I referred to in my previous post. No, I'm not calling you brain dead, I just wish your post had been thought through a little more. Your anger over the situation is clouding your good judgement. Please, show me how Norton saying out in the open they are going to use this toolbar is deception.

    Show me that Ask is still now and forever will be as bad as the reputation they once had. Show me where there is going to be data-theft beyond the normal website tracking/internet usage found in almost every program you install, including a lot of security programs. Show me how the decision to use the toolbar in their product wasn't financial. Privacy is beginning to be a term wildly thrown around here in the forums to include any sort of data, however extremely trivial, that is collected or otherwise used.
     
  20. mvdu

    mvdu Registered Member

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    Good for you. And you don't make as much money as Symantec.
     
  21. BerserkerPup

    BerserkerPup Registered Member

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    I'm calling it what it is, and it is capitalism. I don't consider myself to be "preyed on" when, during installation, software offers me toolbars or whatever that I have a choice of opting-out or opting-in (and most times it's an opt-in choice). It is my responsibility as a consumer to know what I am buying, and my responsibility as a computer user to know what I am putting on my machine. People who don't pay attention will learn a life lesson.

    The expectation of privacy online is now an unrealistic thing. Perhaps in the early, formative years it was easier to slip under the radar. But now? Every site installs cookies, ISPs can track usage, becoming members of community watches transfers data about sites visited, etc. We choose to believe that the EULAs are true, but who really knows? I used to really care about that stuff when I first went on line. Now, I've got various bits of software to protect me, I know what I install, I don't visit dicey sites, and I figure whatever information that is out there about me is out there, and I'm not going to worry about it. Aside from different user names on different sites, I always am the same person and never pretend to be someone I'm not. If someone wants to build a profile about me and my viewing/shopping habits, go for it. I've got software that blocks the targeted ads anyway. ;)

    I really do understand the annoyance and intrustion of toolbar offerings and the like during installations, but expecting it not to happen, in this day and age, is like spitting in the wind. You've got people running software companies that have to meet payroll; they're no longer college students providing a program just because they can. They've got to keep up with cost-of-living increases and insurance premium hikes. If you access torrent sites or other places, you know that any bit of software you could want has been cracked and is out there for the taking. That cuts into profit margins. If companies can afford to turn down the toolbar offers, more power to them, and I salute their principles. But the presence of toolbar offerings is not the deciding factor in my purchase of software.
     
  22. Fly

    Fly Registered Member

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    Well, I can't give you all the proof you ask for ...

    And I'm not angry :)

    'Please, show me how Norton saying out in the open they are going to use this toolbar is deception'

    'out in the open' ? The FACT is that most people will not read about and/or properly understand this toolbar issue. I just noticed it by chance. Of course, if I were to install a product I would choose a customized install, but the fact is that most people won't, for whatever reason. And I don't think that their ignorance, lack of understanding or carelessness is a good excuse for Norton to do this !

    (Not to mention OEM preinstalls).

    And very few people know about the history between ask.com, IAC and Zango. But lots of people will just trust Norton because it is 'safe'.

    And if there is no opt-out (I don't remember this whole thread), who will try to return the box-with-CD to their local computer shop ?

    That's my perspective.
     
  23. dw426

    dw426 Registered Member

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    Well, I actually understand that perspective, but, food for thought here, is Norton committing TRUE deception, or is it yet another case of people not wanting to read things and then getting themselves in a mess? There's a real difference there. You've been here a while and see people come in with problems because they didn't read the fine print. I totally agree with you regarding the past of Ask, but, we need only to look in Spyware Terminators direction to see that things can change.
     
  24. Thug21

    Thug21 Registered Member

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    People shouldn't have to worry about "the fine print" or unchecking toolbars while installing paid for and trusted security software. :doubt:
     
  25. ambient_88

    ambient_88 Registered Member

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    In an ideal world, yes. But reality is different. Whatever a user is installing, he/she needs to pay attention to the instructions.
     
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