NOD32 and Power Management

Discussion in 'NOD32 version 2 Forum' started by Mele20, Aug 18, 2004.

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  1. Mele20

    Mele20 Former Poster

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    Something has recently changed in NOD32. Power management doesn't work properly now if NOD32 is installed. I have always had my computers set to Power Always On, Turn Off Monitor After 5 minutes, Turn off Hard Disks Never, System Standby Never.
    My monitor will no longer turn off after 5 minutes of inactivity. If I uninstall NOD32 then Power Management works properly. As soon as I reinstall NOD32, Power Management ceases to function correctly.

    This problem is occuring with the Beta on my W98SE box and with the current NOD32 on my XP Pro box. Power Management is problematic on W98SE as many applications can interfere with it but I had not had NOD32 causing a problem until recently on that box. On the XP box, I have very few problems with Power Management until recently. Even after resetting the values for the monitor to turn off, I still find that the monitor remains on until I use the button on the monitor to turn it off. Usually resetting the values will fix a Power Management problem. Since this is not the case, even on XP which has much better Power Management than W98SE, there must be something in NOD32 now that is refusing to allow the monitor to turn off. If I install an old version of NOD32 from January and don't let it update the modules, I have no problems with Power Management.
     
  2. ronjor

    ronjor Global Moderator

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    My monitor shutoff works fine in XP no matter which Version of NOD I use.

    Nvidia graphics card.
     
  3. Stan999

    Stan999 Registered Member

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    The Power management "Turn off Monitor" works fine here with two WinXP machines. One using the NOD beta and the other using the regular version.
     
  4. Blackspear

    Blackspear Global Moderator

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  5. Mele20

    Mele20 Former Poster

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    I have an nVidia card on the XP box and a ATI card on the W98SE box but I don't know what the graphics card would have to do with Power Management. The stages of Power Management available are controlled by the monitor or the BIOS not by the video card. I have four stand down stages available on my Trinitron monitor which is hooked to the box with 98SE. That monitor will not go into any stand down stage currently. Because that is an older box and monitor and a very buggy Power Management, the problem may be caused by several things not just the NOD32 beta. Power management on that box has always been extremely problematic and has caused more headaches for me than anything else having to do with W98SE. My flat panel monitor attached to the XP box, has one Suspend mode which is set in the BIOS. Since there are no complicated standdown stages and XP is supposed to have a vastly improved Power Management, I am really puzzled by this problem cropping up on it.

    Some application running in the systray is probably the culprit. Since I haven’t changed those applications or upgraded them, etc. in a long time with the exception of all the changes in NOD32, I don’t think this problem is caused by one of them: volume, Proxomitron, desksweeper, winamp, visioneer scanner, nVidia settings and NOD32 release for the XP box, volume, Proxomitron, winamp, desksweeper, cookie crusher and NOD32 beta for the W98SE box. Plus, if I uninstall NOD32, then the monitors go into the correct standdown/suspend modes available to them.

    I'm wondering if it could have something possibly to do with NOD32's recent protection against turning it off and because that is not in the older version when it is installed Power Management works properly. Maybe this new protection interferes with the monitor going into full standdown or suspend for the XP one? I have found a large number of applications that interfere on W98SE but XP power management is supposed to be much better. Dell even sent me a new Trinitron when an American Express application refused to allow the monitor to go into full standdown and Dell and I thought the monitor was malfunctioning. When Dell started getting more reports on the problem, they were furious with Amex.
     
  6. Mele20

    Mele20 Former Poster

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    I didn't see your post until after I posted the above reply. I've been reading that thread you linked to and also read the entire sister thread over at Net-Integration. I hadn't read T-Zero's reply today though. Very interesting. I thought from the beginning that it had to be tea timer interfering somehow and stopping the monitor from going into stand down/suspend. We have our Power management settings the same so I was quite interested. I have not ever had BSOD's connected to Power Management and how long the monitor is in stand down/suspend. I really admire T-Zero's diligence and detective work.

    I still can't see how the video card could be the problem....at least not in my case as I have different brands on the two computers and the same problem on both. Plus, our problems are a bit different. His monitor has no difficulty going into suspend/off/stand down.

    I'm groaning because I tore out a lot of my hair dealing with this Power Management monitor problem with the W98SE box and I was looking forward to none of this problem on XP and I didn't have it until recently. I'm going to leave NOD32 off the XP box for now and make sure the monitor turns off properly each time. I don't know how susceptible Power Management in XP is to corruption but Microsoft told me on W98SE that Power Management corrupts easily and rapidly.

    However, I am beginning to wonder if this could possibly be a problem unique to Dell computers and monitors? Maybe somehow they are more susceptible to Power Management problems?
     
  7. ronjor

    ronjor Global Moderator

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    That seems to be closer to the source of the problem. NOD surely isn't responsible for all problems.

    I learned with win98se to stay from power management. Too many bugs.

    The only power management I use on XP is turning off the monitor.
     
  8. Blackspear

    Blackspear Global Moderator

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    Too many questions, and not enough answers, I think it would be well worth forwarding an email to Eset support and placing a link to both threads. With one system having a problem it would point to that particular system, with 2 machines and a 3rd on another thread, it may just be a problem with Nod32, very unusual problem, but just that...

    Keep us informed as to your progress...

    The mystery deepens...

    Cheers :D
     
  9. Mele20

    Mele20 Former Poster

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    If you reread my first post you will see that I too only use Power management to turn off the monitors. I don't use it for anything else. Actually, it doesn't turn off your monitor rather it puts it into what ever standdown/suspend modes are available depending on the monitor you have and your bios. When Power Management says "turn off monitor after xxx number of minutes" it doesn't really mean turn of the power supply entirely. That is done by using the button on the monitor. What Power Management does is put the monitor into standdown or suspend which are different words for the same thing. If Power Management could actually turn off the monitor then these problems would never occur.

    I agree NOD32 is not responsible for all problems. However, there have been major changes in the last couple of months to both the current NOD32 and the beta so it could be NOD32. If it is just Dell equipment then why haven't I had the problem sooner on XP? I've read that Power Management in XP is not nearly as problem free as I had been lead to believe before I got it. So, maybe it is a Microsoft problem still like it mostly is on W98SE and even small changes in applications on that OS can cause problems that weren't there before with Power Management.
     
  10. T-Zero

    T-Zero Spyware Fighter

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    For what it's worth. I had sent an email with full details regarding my topic and that I had a thread going at Net-Integration and Wilders already.

    Their reply was to suggest I start a thread at Net-Integration in the spybot S&D forum.

    In my particular case though, I haven't made any changes to Nod, but I have stopped leaving the Teatimer enabled and my problem has gone away.

    Not exactly the most desirable way for me to resolve the situation but more pressing matters of a personal nature kind of forced my hand into this solution until I'm in a position to do something more about it.

    EDIT:

    Just read the post below mine.

    While at MicroCenter today for reasons totally unrelated I had occassion to talk to the service repair manager about my situation since they had built this box two years ago. He also failed to see a connection with video or power management or RAM but did suggest I re-image the drive.
     
  11. Stan999

    Stan999 Registered Member

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    It seems you are always posting a lot of problems with your Dell WinXP machine that isn't effecting others? One of my machines is also a Dell and the monitor power off feature works work ok with NOD.

    You may have some bad drivers or your registry may be corrupted or you may have something left over in your registry from a prior uninstall of a program? You might consider a clean reinstall of the OS.
     
  12. Mele20

    Mele20 Former Poster

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    Before I would consider reinstalling the OS, I would get a different av. :) I have had several av on the W98SE box that interfered with Power Management so I'm sure some interfere on XP even though Power Management is improved on it.

    I had no problems when I was trialling another av for a month recently. I only had to reformat my W98SE box one time in over 5 years. I hope to never need to reinstall XP or reformat. That is the entire point of putting up with XP. It is supposed to be more stable than W98SE.

    Why would you think that just because your Dell works with NOD32 that mine should? Do you have your power management set up EXACTLY as I do? Do you have the exact same monitor that I have? Because that is very important. If you have a different monitor then you have no right to claim that because your Dell works with NOD32 that mine should. I have a 19" 1901FP Ultrasharp Digital display and I have it on Digital not analog. That also is very important. The behavior might be very different if I had the monitor hooked up to the analog cable. It is also important that you use no screen saver if you are going to claim that you have no problems so I shouldn't.

    I had NO problems on this XP box until all the changes with NOD32. The 98SE box has always had problems with putting the monitor into standdown.
     
  13. Blackspear

    Blackspear Global Moderator

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    I gather he did not refer to the error message database provided by Microsoft, that points towards a video driver problem...

    Like I said:
    From here we would then try another monitor, and failing this the next step would be a reinstall of Windows with all the latest drivers...

    After this, software would be installed, once piece at a time and tested...

    It's just a logical systematic process to problem solve this issue...

    Cheers :D
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2004
  14. Stan999

    Stan999 Registered Member

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    Hi Mele20,

    To answer your questions, I have a different monitor. I have power management set just to turn off the monitor but not the hard drive. I do not use a screen saver.

    However, you seem to keep posting unique problems here with NOD that no one else is reporting? Also other problems with your WinXP box on other forums. Example: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,10923396~mode=flat

    That is why I felt that maybe it was a driver problem, or a corrupt registry,
    etc. that was causing all those problems and a reinstall of the OS might help.

    It was just a suggestion.
     
  15. Blackspear

    Blackspear Global Moderator

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    And a good one at that...

    Cheers :D
     
  16. flyrfan111

    flyrfan111 Registered Member

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  17. fredra

    fredra Registered Member

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    OK...here is my .000000002 cents.
    I have to agree with stan999
    IMHO it would appear that the problem(s) are in multiples and the variables are many. In such cases it maybe best to give credance to stan's advice. If the registry is corrupt and/or have vestiges of a previously UN-installed application, strange things can happen, that have no valid or logical explanation.
    It is nice to find out why, but (operative word) in the IT world of support, if you are going to spend the time to figure out every nuance, it becomes a waste of resources (time). So re-install and get on with production. This seems like a perfect case for re-installation.

    "Nero fiddles while Rome burns"
    Cheers :)
     
  18. Mele20

    Mele20 Former Poster

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    I have NO problems with KAV 4.5. I trialled it for 30 days in July which was our hottest month and my monitor turned off perfectly every single time.

    I currently am running mks_vir 2004 and have no problems with it either. I only installed this one last night, but so far the monitor has turned off perfectly after 3 minutes (I reset it so I can more quickly see how it performs).

    So all you people who believe NOD32 is perfect and blame the user if there appears to be a NOD32 problem tell me why I can run other AV with no problems on this XP box? Your attitude of blaming the user, or the users box, or the weather, or etc. etc for what points directly to NOD32 is questionable at best and likely deplorable. You have all conveniently ignored the fact that if I install an old version of NOD32 from January 2004 and don't let it update the modules that my monitor turns off perfectly. Pray tell how this fact can be twisted so that it is my computer at fault or my lack of air conditioning? Pooh! I'm sure you will continue to find excuses for NOD32.

    As for what I said about the box overheating, it reached 51 centigrade hard drive temp at the end of the 12 hours it was running Streams. I was using the phrase a bit loosely since I was furious at Kaspersky for tagging all my files and not telling me. The reason it took Streams so long was primarily because KAV 4.5 was currently installed although disabled. I later learned that for Streams to work properly (even from Safe Mode Command Line where I was running it) all Kaspersky products have to be UNINSTALLED not just disabled as I had done.

    This box, from November 2003 until this summer, was running at 40-42 C and this summer has been running at 47-49C in the daytime and 43-44C at night . That is perfectly acceptable. I have a Seagate Barracuda 7200.7 SATA 120GB hard drive and Seagate states that this drive can safely operate up to 60C. The ONLY time it has gone above 49C was when it hit 51C after 12 hours of running Streams and I had the lanai doors closed because I was sleeping so the living room was hotter than usual. I have asked Seagate about this and have been assured this drive can and does run just fine in Hawaii's climate without air conditioning or a need to turn off the computer at night.

    Computers in Hawaii in homes or businesses without air conditioning should NEVER be turned off even when on long vacations. You go on a three week vacation and turn off a three year old computer when you get back the chances are very high that it won't boot and you are faced with having to replace it. Turning them off shortens the life dramatically. You would be lucky to get more than about three years out of it. Running them all the time means that my 98SE box at 5 and one-half years is still running fine. I don't know a single Dell user here in Hilo who has turned their machine off every night who has a machine older than three years. They have learned the hard way to never turn off a computer here where 90% of homes and apartments and condos are not air conditioned. Many businesses are still not air conditioned either. Most people here "hate" air conditioning and don't want it. If I had it, I would use it only during the really muggy summer days when the humidity gets very high as I too do not like air conditioning except on very sticky days. Plus, considering that the electricity rates in Hilo are the highest in the nation, very few persons with air conditioning use it except on the muggiest of days.
     
  19. Stan999

    Stan999 Registered Member

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  20. Blackspear

    Blackspear Global Moderator

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    You have been spruiking Kav for months now, why don’t you buy it and install it? You are obviously not happy with Nod32.

    You seem to be always looking for an argument Mele. You can see from my posts I have been/was/might still have problems with Nod32 and Lsass.exe, this has been an ongoing problem for many months. I know and understand that when a product is constantly under development (and that is what all Anti-virus products are) there will be issues along the way. You just seem to have way more than most, and it is not something I have never come across before, other than one client who kept playing with his hardware configuration and BIOS, until we security paint marked his screws and advised him that any tampering would void his warranty. As well we password protected his BIOS, funnily enough after this his problems disappeared.

    I don’t see excuses, what I do see is a hell of a lot of people trying to help you and others to problem solve.

    Show me a credible website that can back that statement up, there is yet to be a person that can categorically state and prove that leaving a computer on shortens its life, or for every time you turn off a computer it shortens it’s life…

    We have the same temperatures and humidity in far north Queensland and the Northern Territory, and computers run there fine...

    Cheers :D
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2004
  21. Notok

    Notok Registered Member

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    Since I play with and trial a lot of different security apps, I accept it as par for the course that I will have to reformat every so often, even with XP. If you install and uninstall (espeicially repeatedly) multiple applications that affect the way Windows works (especially if they run at a low level), you have to expect that Windows will get screwy after a while. No OS will ever be able to save you from yourself.

    If you really expect your XP install to last forever while you trial a million different security programs and such, I would suggest you get some tools that will tell you EXACTLY what's going on with your system while you do it (sysinternals makes some very good ones, Microsoft has a good set of support tools for free, there are also a lot of good free apps that will record every change made during an install, and even get a few forensics tools), start using built in tools like auditing, and invest a lot of time into learning what system files (such as DLLs) you currently have on your system, what version, file size, and creation date they are, the associated registry entries, where they are on the XP install disk, how to retrieve them, and most importantly exactly what they do, get a good book on the ins and outs of your registry, and while you are at it maybe even some in depth books on how your operating system works in the first place. If you are more of a "hands-on" type of learner, Linux is a good (FREE) way to get your hands dirty. You will, of course, want to get some books on hardware as well. After all, you look and feel pretty silly when you spend inordinant amounts of time trying to troubleshoot a program and it turns out to be a hardware issue that only seems to affect one program (we've all been there.) If you aren't willing to invest that kind of time and energy into either learning or doing clean installs, I would suggest investing in some drive imaging software and paying a little respect to those that do and offer you the opportunity to benefit from their experience at no cost.
     
  22. Jari

    Jari Guest

    Actually I have had power problems with my XP machine, maybe they began when I installed Nod maybe not. But both has happened quite recently. My monitor turnoff seems to be disturbed (maybe after I installed Nod beta) and my computers hibernation and stand-by are causing problems.

    I don't blame Nod, but something is causing problems.

    jari
     
  23. Blackspear

    Blackspear Global Moderator

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    Good post Notok

    Cheers :D
     
  24. Blackspear

    Blackspear Global Moderator

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    If you uninstall Nod32, remove the Eset folder and clean the registry, does the problem remain?

    Cheers :D
     
  25. Mele20

    Mele20 Former Poster

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    Why would I need to do all that? Is XP that much worse than my beloved W98SE? I trialled a ton of programs on it over 5 years and I beta tested for (horrors) AOL for two years and the only time I had to reformat was when AOL beta 6 (the build that went Gold Master) wrecked my, and many beta testers, Winsock beyond repair. (AOL released it anyway and it proceeded to wreck so many Dell computers that Dell almost sued AOL). Anyhow, my point is that with that one exception, my 98SE performed superbly and I see no reason why XP shouldn't be even better. It is supposed to be better. It seems you are saying it is much more unstable that 98SE. (Of course it does have IE6 that can't be repaired which is a major bummer and can't be removed either which is even a greater bummer and does make XP less stable than 98SE which could easily repair IE or fall back to an earlier version and then reinstall easily. Now SP2 has really messed with IE thus probably causing even more instability especially with the ADS tagging added).

    I think many users that post in forums like this are overly "nutty" about constantly reformatting every time you turn around, etc. I also think it is a "guy" thing to want to constantly "fix/tinker with" your computer/car. As a female, I don't have that particular itch. :D I firmly believe that XP can handle my installing a variety of applications , beta testing, etc. without needing to be "fixed/tinkered with". I beta tested a lot more than AOL applications on my 98SE box and it has been just fine and that is an OS that "experts" say can never survive without reformatting often. I also tried a much larger variety of AV applications on it than on XP. I tried almost everyone in the book at least once on 98SE and it was fine. Of course, I think W98 is a far better OS than XP but everyone tells me I am wrong and XP is far more stable and superior so if that is the case then I can really play with it with no problems. :)

    As far as Linux, yes, I have thought of learning it many times and probably will one of these days. Now that I know SP2 places ADS tags on your IE and OE files/downloads, I am considerably more motivated to learn Linux before a year goes by and Microsoft stops supporting SP1.

    I agree that reading books and using tools to monitor things is a great idea and I will try to do more of that, but I don't think it is necessary based on my experience with W98SE unless that really is the superior OS and poor XP can't handle anything without going buggy and unstable.
     
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