No wars please

Hi all. Been a while since I “played around” in the anti-virus forum and I have a SINCERE question. Knowing the tendency of the anti-virus forum to really “go at it” with their opinions, please let’s keep it civil, although I must admit in the past sometimes those “wars” were fun to read.

Within a few days I will FINALLY be receiving a brand new system complete with a modern OS and a real processor. I’ve been using NOD for the past couple of years on my antiquated, almost dead system. I can’t say that I’ve been completely satisfied with it although it’s never really been tested; to the best of my knowledge I simply haven’t contracted any viruses to find out. My concerns were slowness to fix known bugs and issues although they all now seem to be fixed and I am now able to use all of NOD’s features. The reason I used NOD in the first place was because I LOVED it’s light impact on my resources, indeed, it’s footprint was so light as to be practically non-existent.

My new pc will come already loaded with Norton Anti-Virus and, all joking aside about it’s impact on resources and huge size, let’s face it, it does have a good reputation as a virus scanner in most quarters. I am ASSuming that resources will no longer be the issue for me that it has been for me the past five years. But I am also considering Kaspersky Anti-Virus because of the many mostly good things I have heard about it. One question: what is the difference between the KAV personal 5.0 and the Pro 4.5 versions?

Heck, even McAfee seems to have greatly improved over the past couple of years especially with it’s 8.0 version, at least according to a couple of magazine articles that I have read. Did I once read that McAfee uses an engine similar to KAV or am I thinking of another product?

So give me your opinions, positive and negative about ANY product, and again, let’s keep it polite: I am here to learn, not referee. A sincere thanks for all opinions.

Acadia

 

I am certainly no expert, but my opinion, well....

I have used Norton, McAfee and now AVG free version. I think Norton is pretty good. My mother had a full version of Norton on her computer and I ended up uninstalling it because of some problems she was having with it. Mostly, she is not a computer person and she needed something simple. She had a hard time updating it when it expired. So, I just put AVG on hers also. I like AVG because there is not much to it that I have to do, outside of update. I like things that keep things K.I.S.S.

I don't know the difference between the KAV personal 5.0 and the Pro 4.5 versions. Maybe check the web site.

The one thing that I have learned in many aspects of my life, especially work, don't fix what is not broken. If you have used NOD and know how to use it and have had no problems, well, then stick with it.

 

about mcafee: it's not similar to kav(it's their own engine), but it has quite a lot of very advanced unpackers, almost as many as kav. it is also a resource hog like ( a misconfigured) kav

some av's with kav engine: f-secure, avk etc

kav 5 has more optimized scanner, plus support for some fileformats that 4x versions cannot scan, it has a mail scanner too. i've had troubles with it so i still stay with personal pro 4.5

i'm wondering if you have a free oem version of NAV why not stick to it? when your license ends, you'll probably have enough experience with it, so that you can decide if you need to change.. why waste money?
for normal users NAV will do just fine, add a firewall and maybe an AT+ some spyware protection..and if you have NIS on your new pc, i've heard almost only positive things about nortons firewall.

 

Well, I used Nortons for years. And I agree that its detections are not that great. Both of my computers had at least 1 undetected trojan or virus at any given time. Recently, I too went on a quest looking for a new AV product. And I tried quite a few.

Kaspersky 4.5 pro, had a Nvidia Nview incompatiblity. (Slowed computer to a crawl and resulted in instability during scans.) Which ended up trashing my C drive. After a reformat, the problem was still there and I immediately shut down Nview. No problems after that. It is also very expensive for 2 computers, so I decided to move on.

Panda, was probably not given a fair trial by me. Why? Its free, 1 month trial only includes 1 free AV database update. After your one update, your protection for new viruses is gone. Panda shot themselves in the leg with that idea. Anyways, I wasn't very thrilled with its functionality and removed it.

Nod32, for reasons I can't recall, I was not pleased with it and removed it in record time.

Mcafee, was my second favorite. But ,I didn't like the security center nor its interface in general. And the thought of weekly automatic updates didn't thrill me. I have 2 computers, and one is going off to college with my daughter. She, only uses AIM but somehow always managed to infest her computer with just about everything. Would she download daily manual updates? No, so I uninstalled Mcafee after the 2 week trial. Mcafee took my windows installation down with it. After booting to an alternate drive, I took a look, and there was nothing worth salvaging. Once again, I reformatted my C drive. This computer has not been reformatted since I got it in 2001. And now, it was done 2 times in less than a month!)

Back to KAV, but this time 5.0, since it was finally available. I am little more than half way through my 1 month trial. Its detections are wonderful and I really want to keep this. The Nview incompatibilty is gone. But, I did have a very sporadic problem though. After booting up, I would get this message: "error starting services please reinstall the program". The KAV icon was also not present in the taskbar either. A quick click on its icon would immediately get it working. Kaspersky worked with me on a daily basis to try and fix this problem. But all attempts failed. But now, it has not happened in a week. Did they do something in one of the updates to fix this? I asked them in an email yesterday and will soon find out.

My daughters computer is also having problems with KAV 5.0. And I have just redirected my energy to solving her issues since my computer seems ok now. She is running Windows ME. Her problems were also sporadic. The 3 autoprotect modules would fail to load on some days. And yesterday, I walked into her room to find that her AV database was damaged. It said to run update to fix the problem. And it did. I also sent out a system log for this computer to Kaspersky yesterday. They should be getting back to me sometime today.

As you can see, I really want KAV 5.0 to work for us. And I am willing to troubleshoot a little to keep it.

I read an excellent review on this site about Extendia AVK PRO. It uses double scan engines. One being the KAV engine an the other is RAV. It also has a great price. But I am curious if has all of the functionailty of KAV 5.0. Would I be losing any part of KAV such as the script checker etc... Could anyone answer this for me?

 

As long as the copy of NAV installed does not require product activation (and will not need it if you have to reinstall it again from scratch) I see no reason not to keep it. If however it does need activation (which Symantec has recently added to all their products) then I would advise using something else (you do not want product activation causing additonal problems if you find that you have to rebuild your system after a catastrophic failure for example).

I have recently been running F-Prot which has had good detection ratings and was inexpensive - however it's GUI offers very little choice in configuration and its inability to be able to exclude specific files or folders from scanning is causing problems with other software on my system (in particular, it appears to double/treble the CPU utilisation for Outpost firewall) so I would be cautious with this.

However the best advice would be to download a trial copy of any antivirus software first to check that it causes no compatibility problems with other software on your system.

 

Hi Arcadia,

The difference between kaspersky personal and personal pro, simply put, is that the pro-version has two more things - office guard, which monitors office applications for macros and stuff; and a sort of registry guard, that monitors changes to system settings. But you can't really compare the latest personal version (5) with the current pro (4.5), because version 5 brings some new things - changes in heuristics, for instance. Version pro5 is expected soon. You can find a users forum here: http://forums.useice.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?s=3fb137a01b20ffff;act=SC;c=1

I guess it's a top choice as an AV.

Then you have NOD32, also a superb app. You have to fiddle a round a bit and get to know the program, but once you do it works great.

There's also TrendMicro Internet Security 2004 (PC-Cillin), which includes a
firewall and has had a lot of recommendations this year - Ziff-Davis Network (CNET, ZD.NET, etc), PC-World and About.com rate it as the best, all things considered.

McAfee Pro 8 is very good: on par with Kaspersky concerning detection rates and light on resources (not a hog, as someone stated), though I'd have to agree that the security centre is a very bad idea, not to mention having to look at their advertising other products.

Panda Titanium (version 7) has also had great results in tests this year and it's very easy to use.

Why not Norton? Because it really puts a lot of weight on your system and is not the best AV out there. If you can have a lighter option with the same or better degree of efficiency, why choose it? And because I really don't like the activation thing. Why buy a superfast computer - 3 Ghz, 512 MB RAM, etc., to slow it down by using "fat", resource-hungry software? One could buy a much cheaper machine, use lighter software (though not less efficient) and have the same performance, saving a lot of money in the deal.

For a recent av comparative test (June), go here:

http://www.av-comparatives.org/

Cheers

 

illukka: Yeah, that's right, as soon as I saw the name f-Secure I remembered that it was that product that uses the KAV engine.

Paranoid: Yes, if I remember correctly, the Norton on my system will require product activation.

mcbyke: You have a good point there: why spend all this money on a fast system just to slow it down with a "fat" scanner. Thanks for the link to that site, very interesting: KAV and McAfee look pretty good there, oops, don't want to start any "testing site" fights.

To all: thanks so far for all replies, all have made for interesting reading. KEEP THE OPINIONS COMING.

Acadia

 

Acadia - if NAV is coming pre-installed, I'd go ahead and use it. As you alluded to, different tests yield different results, and can really only be used as guides. All I can say is that all I've ever used is NAV; it stopped the three viruses I've been hit with, and I have no intention (for now, anyway) of moving away from something I know works.

 

I am running a fast system with 1GB fast RAM on dual channels. I only ever used Symantec software until the added bloat and the resources it uses. I did install it on my new computer as I had purchased it but have since removed it completely even though I still had my subscription. Even on a fast computer Norton will spread himself appropriately and I knew it was time to wave bye-bye. I am currently running AVG Pro but like yourself not fully tested as I have not (so far) been on the receiving end of a virus.
I was hesitant to leave the only AV / security I knew but now I have moved I would not re-install Norton (in fact I obtained NIS 2004 version free with one year's sub and still would not install this)

I have had 2 friends recently with very sluggish computers NAV sometimes even loading disabled (noted on other forums also) I tediously removed every part of NAV quite a long task and installed AVG and neither of them can believe just how many resources Norton was taking.

I have another friend who has had to uninstall Norton and re-install him 3 times already through no fault of their own. One corrupted download can affect the whold program.

I like AVG Pro but cannot compare the others as I have never used them. I do know others who use McAfee and they are pleased with the software although the anti-spam feature is just not as popular.

I know most of the pre-installed NAV's now come with a very limited subscription period therefore well worth gathering opinions as you will need yet more time to unisntall after the trial

 

Given the fact that you will have a fairly fast computer, I think the key issue is getting the highest level of protection. While some here advocate several layers of protection (Worm, Trojan, Process, second OD scanner in addition to a software firewall (definitely a must))... unless you're doing a lot of porn surfing or filesharing, it's overkill. It's just too much crap IMO.

As others have said though, it really boils down to what makes you comfortable. Most vendors have 30 day trials (though some will not let you update definitions/app... avoid those), so give it a try.

Few links for you:

www.av-comparatives.org Click on comparatives, then check out the online results for Feb and May '04

Rokop has good tests and if you look at the bottom of the chart you can see how resource usage is with each app.

Rokop June '04

Rokop January '04

Way I look at it is that I'm looking for a mildly resource intensive AV that offers protection to a variety of threats with solid and responsive support. Based on that criteria, I've settled on a few possibilities... eXtendia AVK Pro, KAV 5.0 (haven't had any problems but waiting on Personal Pro, Personal is a good set and forget but I want more control), McAfee 8.0 (Enterprise if I can get a license) and BitDefender.

I think NOD32 is a good app, but it's lack of solid unpacking support and non-viral definitions (yes I know they are building them up) and HPPT scanner (yes I know it's in beta) put me off it. I don't buy an app for what it's going to have at some point in the future. Support seems to vary between responsive and unresponsive. It has a lot of potential, I just wonder what the gang @ Eset has been up to because competitors have had these functionalities on the market for a while. Also, I don't like the licensing scheme, I'm not paying $78 (2 X $39) for an AV product to protect my laptop and desktop.

F-Secure is a hog on resources, noticed it even on my desktop (1GB RAM, kicked CPU to 3.6GHZ for a while we'll see if it goes boom, Raptors in a RAID 0 array). If they managed to get away from backweb for updates, I'd consider it again.

Regarding NAV, they've had some problems with 2K4. It does a good job, but the lack of support, crappy support when you do get it, impact on the system (resource) and instabilities caused by an update or two that has been issued recently put me off. 2K3 was a solid product IMO.

*Edit - If you read the links, you'll see that some AV apps do quite well with Tojans, Worms and Dialers which brings into question the necessity of additional applications.

 

I believe you there are a lot of good AV programs which can supply an adequate level of protection. Given this fact usability, resource usage, and stability become much more important.

However, you should realize that no AV program can, by itself, give really strong protection against all the malware that's around. If you read through these and other forums, you will find that many experts recommend "layered protection."

You should not only have a good AV, but also a personal firewall (LooknStop is my favorite), an antitrojan (Trojanhunter is my favorite for balancing effectiveness and ease of use), and antispyware programs (AdAware and Spybot Search and Destroy complement each other nicely and are both free).

Whatever else you do, try before you buy. Take advantage of trial offers and see if a program suits you and your machine.

Hope this helps.

 

Well, I have licences for NIS 2004, KAV, and now NOD32. I'm back to KAV 5. I don't really like all-in-one apps, and I discovered that NIS uses more resources than KAV 5. I was using NOD32, but since KAV 5's resource use has gone down a little with some experimenting, I didn't see why I shouldn't use KAV for my resident monitor and NOD for my on-demand scanner. It takes some trial if you want to get the best AV for you.

 

An often overlooked but very good av is command av. It uses the F-prot professional scan engine along with it's own hueristics and unpackers. It has also been around a long time. And the price is very low.


more info here

 

So there you have it, no war, just lots of decent options. I went through this too, as have many here.
Why don't you just try every one of them, using the trial period that most of them offer. Installing and de-installing is a lot of work, but you only need to do that only once every 30 days.
By testing the 'decent' scanners, you get a feel of the user experience (the user interface, buttons, screens, the update facility and so on), an issue lacking in most opinions. A while back I experienced a dozen scanners I didn't like most of them (I chose etrust, but it's time to reconsider again )

 

Boy I didn't know that! I thought it was just NAV! Are you sure about that?

 

So do I..LOL...

Opposite for me...

Oh well...

 

From the Symantec Activating Your Product support page:

"Products that include the product activation technology are

Norton AntiVirus 2004
Norton AntiVirus 2004 Professional
Norton Personal Firewall 2004
Norton AntiSpam 2004
Norton Internet Security 2004
Norton Internet Security 2004 Professional
Norton Password Manager 2004
Norton SystemWorks 2004
Norton SystemWorks 2004 Professional"

Realistically, an AV product would have the least requirement of product activation since it requires regular signature updates (and therefore a valid subscription) to stay effective. But then Symantec is nowadays targeting the new user who will have little idea how much hassle such activation can be.