Newbie: OSS or Windows Boot Loader?

Discussion in 'Acronis Disk Director Suite' started by Marders, Aug 17, 2007.

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  1. Marders

    Marders Registered Member

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    I run a RAID 0 array with 2 x 320GB HDDs. I have created 2 partitions of approx 300GB each with DD10 and have Win XP Pro SP2 as my OS on the C: partition (Primary / Active).

    I want to install Win Vista HP x64 on the newly created F: partition (Primary).

    I am confused whether it is easier / better to install Vista from the Win DVD in the normal way from boot up(assuming it will pick up my DD10 partitioned RAID 0 array) during the installation process or whether to use OSS from within XP or from the DD Boot CD I have created.

    I will use XP most of the time and Vista for DX10 gaming. My router is not supported by Vista and I won't be able to access the Net from Vista so most of my time will be spent with XP.

    I am confused about hiding partitions in OSS if it is used to install the second OS. Also, what happens when i am in Vista and want to get back to XP? Do I have to install DD10 on the Vista partition?

    I like the idea of using the standard Windows Boot Loader which I assume will start every time I power on the PC. I assume I can simply select between XP (Earlier Version of Windows) and Vista and simply reboot when i want to change.

    I have made a back up of the XP install using TI.

    I'm really after an 'Idiot's Guide' to dual booting with RAID 0 and using either OSS or Windows Boot Loader. I am after the solution that is likely to cause the least installation issues!

    Any help would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks.
     
  2. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    If you're after the solution that's likely to cause the least installation issues, then I would have to recommend you just install Vista and use Vista's boot loader. OSS can be a pain to setup in some cases.

    Personally, I like isolated installs so I prefer a third-part boot manager (like OSS, BING, etc.). This allows me to "hide" the OS's from each other. The Windows boot loader will not let you hide the other OS partitions. Also, all Windows will boot from the same partition (your XP partition, in this case) so if you want to change later you'll have to "untangle" them.

    -----

    OSS still has some Vista issues, but if it recognizes it, it seems to work okay.

    If you want to use OSS, make sure you're using the the latest build of DD/OSS (2,160).

    Post back if you want to proceed with OSS. You can also read the DD manual and read through some of the OSS threads on the forum for general help.
     
  3. K0LO

    K0LO Registered Member

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    Another consideration is that if you allow XP to "see" the Vista partition then every time that XP runs it will destroy Vista's System Restore files and along with them, the shadow copy files (Previous versions of files automatically saved by Vista). This is another reason to favor isolated installs of XP and Vista; each in separate partitions with the one hidden from the other.

    You may not care about this issue if you're only running Vista for DX10 games, however.

    I'm also somewhat surprised that you think your router won't work with Vista. Why not? It may not explicitly say that it is Vista compatible but you should be able to connect to it and use it. Vista does have the newer IPv6 support but is also backwards compatible with the existing IPv4 protocol in use today.
     
  4. Marders

    Marders Registered Member

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    MudCrab and K0lo. Thankyou very much for the replies.

    Whilst I like the idea of simplicity with the Windows Boot Loader I am concerned about the 'tangling' issue and system restore problems.

    I would happily give OSS a go if I thought I could do it without any major issues.

    I am happy with the installation guide included with DD10 but it doesn't seem to mention the need to hide partitions. How do I do this successfully? Will I have to install DD10 in the Vista partition in order to swap back?

    Is it best to run DD10 from the bootup CD I have created or from within XP? When I created the partition to be used by Vista I had to do it from the bootup CD becuse the operation hanged during restart from within XP.

    I currently have the Vista ready partition as F: and set as a Primary partition. I assume this is correct and ready to accept the Vista install?

    Whilst I will mainly use the Vista partition for DX10 games initially I may well migrate more towards it as I become more familiar etc. over time. I plan on installing OEM Windows Vista Home Premium x64. I assume this should work ok?

    The only reason I mentioned my router (2wire BT Home Network 1250) is that when I ran the Vista compatibility wizard it was flagged up as incompatible. I checked the 2wire website and there are no Vista drivers for the 1250 series. I connect vis USB and assumed that whilst Vista would recognise the USB device it wouldn't have access to the appropriate drivers and therefore not work.

    If someone could send me a step-by-step guide to installing Vista on my F: primary partition with OSS whilst hiding the XP partition and how I switch between Vista and XP I would be extremely grateful.

    Thank you very much.
     
  5. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    Once OSS is installed, switching between OS's is very easy. When you boot the computer the OSS menu will come up letting you select which OS you want. If you want a default OS to load you can set a timer. You can also install OSS in each of your Windows. Then when you run OSS in Windows it will display the same menu of OS's and you can select the one you want to boot. In this case, OSS will boot directly to the selected OS instead of displaying the menu when the computer reboots (just for that boot).

    ----

    First, create a backup of your current drive. If you have True Image, create an image of the entire drive (check the Disk # checkbox). This will allow you to return the current state if problems come up and you need to restart.

    Start XP and then install DD (if it's not installed already). Then install OSS from XP. Make sure the computer reboots properly and shows XP in the menu and boots correctly into XP. Once you have OSS setup with OSS and booting properly, continue with the steps below.

    Reboot to the OSS menu. Right-click on the XP menu item and select Properties. In the Partitions section, click on the Vista partition and check the "hidden" checkbox. Then click the Ok button to save the changes. This will "hide" the Vista partition from XP. Now boot into XP and make sure the Vista partition isn't showing up as a drive in My Computer.

    Reboot to OSS and then insert the Vista DVD into the DVD drive. In a few seconds OSS should add a menu entry for the DVD. Right-click on the DVD menu entry and select Properties. In the Partitions section, select the XP partition and check the "hidden" checkbox. Select the Vista partition and check the "active" checkbox. This will "hide" the XP partition from Vista and set the Vista partition as the "booting" partition. Click Ok to save the changes.

    Then double-click on the Vista DVD menu entry to run it. Vista install should start. Let it proceed. When you get the part where you select the partition you want to install to, you'll see both partitions. Select the Vista partition. (I recommend you also select the Advanced options and have Vista reformat the Vista partition. If you do this MAKE SURE it is the VISTA partiton. You don't want to reformat the XP partition.) Continue with the install.

    When Vista reboots, you'll either return to the OSS menu with a new Vista menu entry OR Vista will boot automatically.

    If Vista boots automatically, then continue with the install. When it's all finished. Install DD into Vista and then OSS. OSS should find the previous install of itself and update it.

    If OSS comes up with a new Vista menu entry, right-click on the Vista menu entry, select Properties and then the Partitions section. Verify that the XP partition is checked as "hidden" and that the Vista partition is checked as "active". Then boot to the Vista menu entry to continue the install.

    Hopefully, it will go smoothly. OSS still has some Vista bugs and some people have had a hard time getting it to recognize Vista.

    The main thing you want to check for are the OSS settings for your XP and Vista menu entries.

    For XP: The XP partition is ACTIVE, the Vista partition is HIDDEN
    For Vista: The VISTA partition is ACTIVE, the XP partition is HIDDEN

    ---

    If this doesn't work for you, then you have to Deactivate OSS (you can do this from the OSS menu). Select XP as the default OS. Then boot to DD from the CD and set the Vista partition as ACTIVE and the XP partition as HIDDEN. Then boot from the Vista DVD (press a key if needed to boot from the DVD) and install Vista normally, letting Vista format the partition. Once Vista is installed, install DD and then OSS. Since the XP partition is hidden when OSS is installed, you'll probably have to fixed the "grayed out" checkboxes for XP's partition. This is an easy bug to fix, so don't worry about it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2007
  6. Marders

    Marders Registered Member

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    Mudcrab,

    Thank you. Very easy to follow so thanks for the effort. I have followed the steps but have encountered the following problems:

    Steps 1 - 3 worked fine: Drive backed up with TI. OSS installed fine (2,160). I hid the Vista partition. Vista partition no longer showing in XP 'My Computer'.

    Now the problems:

    When I rebooted for Step 4 and inserted the Vista DVD no menu item appeared in OSS. The only way I could get OSS to see Vista and let me hide the XP partition, activate the Vista partition was to use OSS from within XP itself. It seemed to work ok and I double clicked the Vista menu entry and it seemed to install.

    I made sure I selected the correct partition (seeing both partitions) but when Vista trued to run for the first time I got the BSOD and the system restarted.

    I can run XP ok and Vista has clearly installed itself into the partition because it has 11 GB of used space.

    For some reason Vista won't run. I can see the entry in OSS from bootup but when I click it and it tried to launch Vista I get the BSOD followed by the safe mode menu (I have tried safe mode and that doesn't work either).

    Does the problem stem from the fact that I had to launch Vista installation from within XP DD10 / OSS rather than from bootup OSS?

    If so, how do I get OSS to recognise Vista from bootup? The DVD drive doesn't spin up and OSS just doesn't seem to want to find the Vista DVD / icon.

    Any help greatly appreciated.

    Many thanks.
     
  7. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    One thing you could try first...

    Make sure the BIOS is set to boot from the DVD drive first (before the hard drive). Since OSS starts booting into Vista, make sure that the XP partition is "hidden" for the Vista menu entry and then boot into Vista. When you get the BSOD, insert the Vista DVD and reboot/reset the computer. Press a key to boot from the Vista DVD. When the choice comes up, select to Repair. Do the repair and see if Vista will boot up properly. If it does then Reinstall (or Reactivate) OSS.

    ----------------

    Sometimes OSS will not display CDs and DVDs correctly (or not a all). I have this problem on one of my computers.

    Since the Vista DVD won't show up in when booted to the OSS menu, you'll have to follow the bottom "manual" instructions (the last paragraph) in my previous post. Don't do the install from OSS in Windows.

    Also, make sure to have Vista reformat the Vista partition during the install. I think you have to select "Advanced Options" (or something like) that and then the option shows up. It's on the screen where you select the partition to install to.
     
  8. Marders

    Marders Registered Member

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    Mudcrab,

    Thanks. I will try it out. One thing - When I created my 'Vista' partition with DD10 I selected the 'Unallocated space and free space' option rather than 'unallocated space only'. I didn't shrink my XP partition and free up unallocated space. Rather the C: drive was showing 590GB free and DD10 created the F: partition using the free space from C:

    Should I have shrunk C: (XP) first to free up 'unallocated space' and then created the new partition or doesn't it matter?

    Thanks.
     
  9. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    As long as the partition you created for Vista is large enough for your needs, there shouldn't be anything wrong with it. I wouldn't install Vista into a partition smaller than 30GB or so. And if you plan on installing a lot of apps then allow more space (50-80GB for example). An exception would be if you're installing games (or other large programs) onto another drive. In that case, the Vista partition can be smaller (15-20GB).

    If you're going to change the partition using DD, you might as well do it before you install Vista.
     
  10. Marders

    Marders Registered Member

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    MudCrab,

    Still no joy. I tried various methods to get Vista working from OSS and had no success.

    Decided to reformat the Vista partition to get rid of the Vista software by using the formatting tools from within XP (un-hid the Vista partition).

    Once the partition was reformatted I attempted to install Vista in the normal way (ie boot from the Vista DVD and install to the partition I had created).

    Exactly the same problems as before. Everything seems to install ok and then when Vista gets to the 'Completing Installation' part the BSOD flashes up and the computer reboots.

    I now have the Vista boot loader because I had tried to install Vista in the normal way.

    Vista won't run in safe mode either. When I boot from the DVD and attempt a 'Repair' the message tells me it can't be reapired. I get the following log:

    Problem signature:
    Problem event name: Startup Repair v2
    Problem signature 01: External media
    Problem signature 02: 6.0.6000.16386.6.0.6000.16386
    Problem signature 03: 0
    Problem signature 04: 65537
    Problem signature 05: Unknown
    Problem signature 06: Failure during setup
    Problem signature 07: 0
    Problem signature 08: 0
    Problem signature 09: Unknown
    Problem signature 10: 1168
    OS Version: 6.0.6000.2.0.0.256.1
    Locale ID: 1033

    The Repair program suggests removing external devices such as cameras and music players.

    The only external USB devices I have connected are an external HDD and USB broadband router.

    I disconnected both and restarted the PC. Still nothing. Attempts to load then BSOD flashes up and PC reboots.

    Tried to run repair again and this time the BSOD appears and stays up. Error code is:

    STOP: 0x0000007E (0xFFFFFFFFC0000005, 0xFFFFF8000985E251, 0xFFFFF98000A05C78, 0xFFFFF98000A05650)

    Any suggestionso_O!!!

    All help greatly appreciated.

    Many thanks.
     
  11. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    I sent you a Private Message.
     
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