New to Paragon

Discussion in 'Paragon Drive Backup Product Line' started by dueceswild, Nov 9, 2009.

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  1. dueceswild

    dueceswild Registered Member

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    I am currently using Acronis TI 11, and have had no problems with it. Actually, I have nothing bad to say about it at all. It is very simple to use. The only problem I have, and it seems to be a recurrent theme, is the upgrading with Acronis is a crapshoot. I will be ugrading my system to Windows 7 fairly soon, and would have to go with Acronis 2010. I know that usually forums are for folks having trouble, but the Acronis forum is exceptionally busy. I would really like to avoid headache and hassle.

    Paragon seems to be less of what I am trying to avoid. But, I am familiar with Acronis. Not so much with Paragon. I have read about it, but being a computer novice- especially with imaging software- I have some questions about Paragon.

    1. The main thing I am looking for is reliability. Not only of the images, but also of the software and support. I have been impressed with the support of Paragon here, but I guess what I am asking is are the software and software upgrades as notorious as Acronis seems to be?

    2. How long do the backups take? One of the things I have read about Paragon is that backups take a while. I have about 40 gig. Running XP3.

    3. Are there any known issues with Paragon Personal 9? Support forums seem quiet to me.

    4. What are all the things that came with it? I got the Partition Manager 10, and Drive Backup 9. I get the 64 bit versions. But with PM 10 I have a winpe disk for a virtualization manager and a virtualization manager. Then I have the recovery disc image. How do I use this stuff?

    Basically, I make full images every couple of weeks. I probably didn't even need the PM 10. But I got it at a good price, and both were comparable to the Acronis 2010 upgrade. I haven't decided to keep it yet. I understand there is a money back guarantee; I figured at the price I found it and the support I see it shouldn't be a problem to get a refund.

    Sorry for the long post and probably basic questions. Any help is appreciated.

    Jim
     
  2. SIW2

    SIW2 Registered Member

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    Hi Jim,

    I don't have any issues with the Paragon apps on 7 x64.

    I find the Image backups are made at about 1gb per minute - so I would guess 40 mins or so, maybe less - depending on your system.

    They have always been completely reliable for me.

    The Virtualization Manager brings a lot of extra features to PM10 -this will explain what you can do with it:

    http://www.paragon-software.com/home/vmpro/features.html

    Hope it helps.
     
  3. diabloNL

    diabloNL Registered Member

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    I also just switched from TI11 to Paragon. Also thought about TI2010 for my new W7 system. Also been reading about all the problems. So I switced to Paragon and did a couple of backup/restores without any problems on W7. So until now I'm really happy.:D

    1. The main thing I am looking for is reliability. Not only of the images, but also of the software and support. I have been impressed with the support of Paragon here, but I guess what I am asking is are the software and software upgrades as notorious as Acronis seems to be?

    Reliability looks good. I just did a couple of backup/restores, but without hassle. Same was for TI11.

    2. How long do the backups take? One of the things I have read about Paragon is that backups take a while. I have about 40 gig. Running XP3.

    About 30min. for 15GB on a external USB2.0 drive. Of course this is just an indication.


    3. Are there any known issues with Paragon Personal 9? Support forums seem quiet to me.

    Don't know yet.

    4. What are all the things that came with it? I got the Partition Manager 10, and Drive Backup 9. I get the 64 bit versions. But with PM 10 I have a winpe disk for a virtualization manager and a virtualization manager. Then I have the recovery disc image. How do I use this stuff?

    Don't know yet.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2009
  4. dueceswild

    dueceswild Registered Member

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    Thanks for all the replies. I really don't want this to go to the A vs B thread, but the only frame of reference I have is Acronis, so that's where I have to make the comparison. Like I said, I have only good things to say about them in my experience. 2010 may work fine for me, TI 11 did. I just don't want to have to dread the upgrade.
    For the Acronis converts, did the Acronis uninstall utility work, or were still registry entries. I know Acronis used to leave a lot behind, but supposedly the new utility addresses that.
     
  5. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    Since TI 11 is working well for you, this is what I would suggest:
    1. Create a backup using TI 11.
    2. Uninstall TI 11.
    3. Run the Acronis Cleanup Utility.
    4. Upgrade to Windows 7 (I assume this is from Vista).
    5. Install your Paragon software.
    The Cleanup Utility should work. However, some people have reported problems with it. If it doesn't work, there are manual uninstall instructions available for TI 11.

    Note that if you decide to try the TI 2010 trial, you may have "cleanup" problems if the uninstaller doesn't work. As far as I know, the Cleanup Utility program doesn't yet work with TI 2010 and Acronis hasn't posted manual uninstall instructions. So, if you do install TI 2010 to try it and then need to uninstall it, it may be best to restore the TI 11 image.

    By creating a backup image using a program you trust (TI 11), you can revert back easily if needed. Hopefully, the whole process will go smoothly for you.
     
  6. dueceswild

    dueceswild Registered Member

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    Thanks Mudcrab. That's exactly what I did, except I have not installed Windows 7 yet. I did install Paragon, however. Paragon installed quickly and cleanly.
    My initial impression is that Paragon is good, stable software. It doesn't seem to be as polished as Acronis. I made an image in about 50 minutes. It was quite a bit different than what I am used to. Not bad, just different. I guess I did it right; after the screen came back following the image, Paragon just opened up. Nothing to tell me it was successful. It is set to verify the image as it makes it; I have not had the chance to verify separately or to restore the image.
    Regarding the Acronis uninstall, I did have a little problem using the recommended Add/Remove programs. The Acronis uninstall utility did a great job though.
    I'll test drive it a little longer, but I don't feel quite as skiddish about upgrading or updating. I do have some questions that I still need answered.

    Jim
     
  7. GrumpyAeroGuy

    GrumpyAeroGuy Registered Member

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    Ex Acronis user here as well...

    I switched for the same reasons you cite. Seems like I was having more than my share of issues with the backup program. The disk management utility was pretty reliable.

    I wanted to set up a dual boot with XP64 and Win7x64, thinking the Acronis utility would work easily. The Acronis boot manager was pretty flakey (being kind here). Sometimes it was there, sometimes it wasn't.. never could get it working right.

    At that time (few months ago), the Aconis bootmanager couldn't handle Win7 without pinging an xml file called bootwiz, for which Mudcrab could, and probably does, make a full time living supporting himself (that's a huge compliment, sir, BTW). Without him, MANY Acronis folks would be guessing, as their support is for the dogs (been there, tried that). They may have fixed the Win7 thing by now, to be fair. I don't know.

    Switched to Paragon and never looked back. Are there (very minor) glitches on occasion? Sure. But, at least here, REAL paragon folks actually help and show that they care about their product and reputation, something I never thought for a millisecond from Acronis.

    BTW, been dual booting xp64 and win7x64 for months with paragon. Bulletproof and reliable. Took about 7 minutes (not including the 7 install time) and worked flawlessly the first time thru.

    Welcome aboard. I am sure you'll be happy.
     
  8. dueceswild

    dueceswild Registered Member

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    Thanks for the welcome. Yes, Mudcrab helped me setting up Acronis. I really can't complain about TI 11. Just looking down the road at Windows 7 support.
    I am really considering returning the purchase of the partition manager and applying that to the DB Pro(if they will let me do that) . I think that program would be more comparable to what I am used to.
    I too am impressed with the Paragon involvement on the forum.

    Jim
     
  9. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    OSS does not work correctly on some systems and I have the feeling that may be the majority. I say this because I pretty much know the bugs in OSS by heart and bugs like that don't do anything but cause problems. "Pretty flakey" is being very kind indeed.

    Thanks for the compliment. I appreciate it. I've never understood why Acronis did not step in, even one time, and try to help solve the OSS problems.

    They have not. They haven't even fixed the Vista problems as far as I'm concerned since their last update to DD/OSS completely broke DD.

    There is definately a difference with how support is handled. I haven't had cause to contact Paragon Support directly, but their activity on the forum seems to be handled much better than how Acronis did/does it.
     
  10. GrumpyAeroGuy

    GrumpyAeroGuy Registered Member

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    You're quite welcome. There are a LOT of things that I don't understand. Why would anyone store OS info in an XML file. That is an MS afflicted thing, and, as we know, they are SOOOOO consistent with "standards" they create. I am no expert, but I DO do my share of software programming and development. Wouldn't touch XML for that kind of thing with a ten foot keyboard.


    That's disappointing, and funny in a tragic way.

    That's the understatement of the world...I did try the Acronis support route... e-mails to a black hole. As a matter of fact, the first attempts failed because I couldn't even get past the logon prompt on their web page.... LOL.

    I dunno, Paragon appeals to me all the way around. For ME, it seems more intuitive, but, again, that's subjective.

    If I were running a (software) company, and released a product that relied on a forum user and their private website to keep my customers running (a compliment again), I would have to sit back in my chair and contemplate starting over, or firing a bunch of folks for not doing their job, development AND support. That's usually a sign of the nearing of the abyss.

    The other thing I find interesting is that they DO seem to get a lot of folks running their stuff. Surprising.... OR... an opportunity for "someone else":D to really ramp up targeted marketing and pull them all away. From where I am standing, couldn't be too hard.... like a competitor discount. SHow us your _________ License, and we'll sell you our comparable product at a ___% discount..... just thinking.... LOL
     
  11. dueceswild

    dueceswild Registered Member

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    Let me first post kudos to Paragon support. I fired off an email last night asking to trade in the partion manager product (I still use Acronis DD) and the personal version I purchased toward an upgrade of the on-sale pro version.
    This morning, I get an email from support saying that would be easy to do. They posted a link, and when I click the link I go to the checkout page where DB 9 pro is already in the card with the price difference. I've had more trouble than this at Wal-Mart.
    Now, can someone tell me the best way to go about installing it? Specifically, do I uninstall the personal edition (if so, how) or install over it.
    Also, what do I need to do with the Adaptive Restore download? Install them as well, burn them to a disk, or both. Little bit confused about how AR works and how to use it.

    Thanks
    Jim
     
  12. GrumpyAeroGuy

    GrumpyAeroGuy Registered Member

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    I've had more trouble than this at Wal-Mart... LOL.... AND, you didn't prop up the Chinese economy in the process either......:D

    I am sure Tommy or someone will smack me up side the head (electronically) if I don't get this right, but I believe they can all be installed together. I have DBU 9 and DBU 10 Pro running together, and they behave independently. On top of that I have AR installed and Hard Disk Manager Suite... ALL installed together with no issues that I have discovered as of yet. I have them all installed on XP64 AND Win7x64, as I have used Paragon to manage my dual booting machine.

    Now, naturally, it is always more managable to uninstall the package you don't need in lieu of an upgraded one, but I believe they can all stand alone, if desired.

    Adaptive Restore is a separate application that, again, is installed as an independent entity. Just install it. It is a utility that allows you to create virtual disk files in a variety of ways (vmdk of your existing partition, an existing backup image, as well as different ways to create it etc..) It also has utilities on it that allow you to make the new virtual disk bootable on different hardware platforms via driver utilities, etc.. Take a look at the product documentation for AR. The documentation is actually quite good. It's a pdf file that you can DL from the Paragon site as well. It may DL with it, but I can't remember right at this moment.

    I have successfully used AR to convert an XP64 partition to a vmdk file, which I subsequently got successfully booting and running on VMWare server as a virtual machine on Win7x64. I used the P2V Copy functionality from within AR on XP64. Took an hour or two for a 70Gb partition. Took another few hours of fumbling with VMWare (due to my relative inexperience with VMWare) to get it where I wanted it and get it working as I liked. If I had to do it over again, it would be a 5 minute exercise once I had the vmdk file. Also, had great support from Paragon throughout this new (for me) experiment.

    Now, with EACH of these apps, you receive TWO boot/recovery disk ISO files, one Linux, and one based on WinPE. The Linux one typically downloads with the app, meaning, you can create it from within the downloaded app. The WInPE version of the recovery CD ISO is typically available from the DL page as an add-on. You DL that as a seperate ISO.
    Now, I understand there are subtle differences between the Linux and WinPE recovery modes in terms of what is available in terms of functionality, though both are pretty dang complete.

    THOSE you (can) burn to CDs allowing you, if needed, to boot from them and take advantage of whichever utility the ISO represents from a fresh boot-up as a recovery console. The ISO files also allow you to port them to a virtual machine's "CD-ROM" so your virtual machine can/could boot from them into a recovery console.

    All pretty cool, in my mind.

    Hope this helps a little.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2009
  13. dueceswild

    dueceswild Registered Member

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    Thanks for the reply. I won't be able to run DB 9 personal and professional together; I don't think I'd need to anyway. I think my main concern is if I need to uninstall DB 9 personal, is there an uninstall utility or does it uninstall cleanly by add/remove programs.

    With regard to the VMware/Adaptive restore, I'm really not too sophisticated there. If I am to understand correctly, I just use the AR function to reinstall the image to a different computer. Is that right?

    As far as the WinPE/Linux goes, I think I have it now. I also have a BartPE thing. Have no idea what that's for.

    Not that I have much computer knowledge anyway, but images and drivers and the like are really my computer weakness.

    I apologize if I was unclear previously. And thank you again.

    Jim
     
  14. GrumpyAeroGuy

    GrumpyAeroGuy Registered Member

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    I have uninstalled and it uninstalls cleanly w/o problems. Not like the "other guys" where you have to run a seperate "cleaner" to REALLY uninstall it.

    I believe you can use AR to migrate an image across hardware platforms. Never tried that, specifically.

    No problem at all.
     
  15. dueceswild

    dueceswild Registered Member

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    Thanks again GrumpyAeroGuy. Do you uninstall via add/remove programs or is there an uninstall function within the program?

    Also, what is BartPE and what does it do?

    Sorry for so many questions.

    Jim
     
  16. Paragon_Tommy

    Paragon_Tommy Paragon Moderator

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    The adaptive restore tool can be used before the backup or after the restore. The latter choice is safer as it doesn't affect your original machine and recommended if you plan to do this once or so.

    Simply put,

    Using Adaptive Restore BEFORE:

    Install AR, use AR to load the drivers you anticipate will be needed in the machine, rebuild HAL, RUN a backup of the system, and restore to new machine.

    Using Adaptive Restore AFTER:
    Backup your machine the way it is, restore to new machine or virtual machine; operating system might not boot up due to lack of drivers for the new hardware in the old operating system. After the restore, boot to AR recovery CD, load the drivers you need, and reboot system.
     
  17. dueceswild

    dueceswild Registered Member

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    Okay, thanks Paragon Tommy. So, since I just basically do backups every so often and don't really do anything "technical" like dual boots, VMWare,etc., I don't need to do AR every time or not even at all on this system to make the backups.

    My use would be for migrating to a new system, and wanting to use the same programs etc. that are on the old system.

    Would I even need to install it into Windows for my basic use? I understand making a copy on disk in case I need it and can't get to the OS.

    Thanks,

    Jim
     
  18. Paragon_Tommy

    Paragon_Tommy Paragon Moderator

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    Wait till you need to migrate to the new computer, will you need to use the adaptive restore. Using the program "before" is best for creating standard images if you plan to deploy to multiple servers, do physical to virtual migration, or virtual adjust.

    You can find more information about the features here:

    http://www.paragon-software.com/business/vm/features.html
     
  19. dueceswild

    dueceswild Registered Member

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    Thank you Paragon Tommy. I am really new to virtual drives, etc. This has really been informative. Still got a way to go.

    Will Paragon DB 9 Pro- and DB 10 when available- restore images made be earlier versions?

    Jim
     
  20. Paragon_Tommy

    Paragon_Tommy Paragon Moderator

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    Paragon Softwares are backward compatible. You don't need to worry about images being obsolete. Drive Backup 10 will restore from and even do differential backups based on older images created by Drive Backup 9 and 8.

    This is also true across the board with our other line of products: Partition Manager, Hard Disk Manager, Backup & Recovery, and System Recovery.
     
  21. dueceswild

    dueceswild Registered Member

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    Thanks again Paragon Tommy. Everything I read about the support is spot on. Not only in the forums here, but through the other means as well. The support was actually the deciding factor when I chose Paragon. I figured with that I could overcome other shortcomings if they existed. But, I have yet to find those either.

    Now, if we could get DB 10 Professional out within the next 30 days...

    Jim
     
  22. Paragon_Tommy

    Paragon_Tommy Paragon Moderator

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  23. dueceswild

    dueceswild Registered Member

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    Which I think, for me, begs this question from a similar post:


    I am a bit confused by the various Paragon backup products. I currently am trialing Drive BU Pro 9.0. I am also evaluating Backup and Recovery 10 Free Edition. I now see System Backup 2010. I also assume that there will soon be a Drive BU Personal and Pro 10.0. I would appreciate it if someone could provide me with or point me to on the Paragon site, a detailed feature comparison between these various similar appearing backup and recovery systems.
    Reed

    Or at least explain what the difference is between the Drive Backup software and the Backup and Recovery Software. Reason being, for me, is that I just purchased the DB 9 Pro, so if the DB 10 pro comes out in the next 30 days, I should be able to upgrade free.

    Does this count for the Backup and Recovery software, since you say "Backup and Recovery 10= DB 10"?

    Thanks

    Jim
     
  24. Paragon_Tommy

    Paragon_Tommy Paragon Moderator

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    We'll be happy to waive your upgrade within the 30 days of purchase. Please contact us via phone or send me a PM with your email.
     
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