Need an AV for an older system.

Discussion in 'other anti-virus software' started by Comp01, Jul 12, 2010.

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  1. Comp01

    Comp01 Registered Member

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    I know theres probably not much worry about this, but I have a client who has an older laptop running with Windows 98, the system can't really handle much newer than ME without a memory upgrade which he doesn't want to invest in, the systems used for very basic things, I know theres not much out there in the way of viruses for 98 anymore (atleast not in the wild) but I'd like to throw something on, so any free antiviruses that run on 98 or ME?
     
  2. Cudni

    Cudni Global Moderator

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    ClamAV might be still supporting it
     
  3. wtsinnc

    wtsinnc Registered Member

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  4. eCo

    eCo Registered Member

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    A "modern" resident antivirus like Avast 4.8 will probably make an old 9x computer crawl... :'(

    I would rather suggest to scan from time to time with an on-demand antivirus like Dr.Web CureIt!.

    edit: Dr.Web CureIt! has dropped support for 9x systems since the version 6.00 released last month. Maybe you could try live CDs:
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2010
  5. Kyle1420

    Kyle1420 Registered Member

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    Maybe it might be better to use linux on his PC...
     
  6. simisg

    simisg Registered Member

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    windows 2000 is also good.....and more safe
     
  7. shadek

    shadek Registered Member

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    Stop being off topic guys.

    The best idea in this case would probably to ditch any modern resident antivirus solution. Try looking for an on-demand modern AV, as a resident AV-scanner would cripple the computer.
     
  8. dw2108

    dw2108 Registered Member

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    On old PCs, I always end up returning to Win 95 16-bit 0r Win 98 SE. With Opera versions 8.54-10.54 + DrWeb link checker, hphosts file, WinPatrol, Winsonar, SSM, Kerio PFW 2.1.5, Proxomitron, Sentinel, Momidir 2000, Tiny Watcher all connected to ClamWin and AVZ, SSM tweaked to see much, much more, and AnalogX CacheBooster tweak + MaxMem, I go anywhere I want, and come back OK. Even use IE based browsers. ClamSentinel is also fun, but gets imn the way. Other apps from Steve Miller, AceLogix, Fanboy and others -- especially ini and css tweaks -- make 9x safe. RAM is at 90% or better with 192-512 Meg systems. I also use custom install directories and change both my TEMP folders and TEMP params. The autoexec.bat lies on C:\ and has one line calling the REAL autoexec.bat residing elsewhere. RunOnce -- use AnVir TaskMan Free ver 5.0.4, or block registry changed. 9x needs tweaks, not realtime AV/AM protection. Dll, sys, ocx, oca and other injection methods are too easily blocked on 9x systems. Control the rundll.exe, rundll32.exe, user.exe, user32.exe, shell.exe, shell32.exe, command.com, regsvr32.exe and a few other files, and you're safe, and SSM allows this protection. Clam is needed to make sure that a daowload is clean, but VirusTotal is equally effective. Scripts are very easily controlled with SrciptTrap or ScriptDefender. Even Outlook Express becomes safe.

    Dave

    PS And I still use Flash. Why not?

    Other apps -- FileMap by BB, FingerPrind, WhatChanged, Windows scanregw /auto, reskit for full system recovery, ditto Win98RK on the 98 install disk, poledit, DLLhound, DLLhunter, FileChecker, EXEHound, EXEHunter InjectedDLL and a few others allow ANY system change to be reveresed -- wanted or unwanted.

    If you want an AV to protect 9x, get BitDefender Free version 10 -- repeat 10. During the install, choose the complete option. Reboot. DON'T UPDATE, SCAN OR READ THE README.TXT until the install is complete. After the install is complete, update. When the update is finished, reboot. Give BD a few minutes to load and reboot again.

    BitDefender now misreads the 9x kernel and sees any active file as download or email attachment. NO FILE RECOGNIZED by BD as malicious, can run. FACT!

    Downside: BD has MANY false positives and can mess up a few innocent files. There is no way to filter the protection without a great deal of hacking into the BD program. NOT COOL! So ALL files are being investigated. This can eat up RAM, but FastDefrag2 (Free) is fairly good at reclaiming RAM.

    VBA32 is a paid AV/AM which supports 9x. Ditto VirusFighter and VirusBuster if you email them to request the 9x installation file.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2010
  9. noone_particular

    noone_particular Registered Member

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    I also use SSM, Kerio 2.1.5 and Proxomitron on Win98, along with the system policy editor and DOS batch files. They're configured to enforce a default-deny security policy. The known good apps and system components already present are whitelisted. Everything else is blocked. This is not as restrictive as it sounds on a 98 unit. There are no Windows Updates to install. There's also a limited number of new apps that will work on a 9X system, unless you have KernelEX installed, which enables you to run quite a few newer apps.
    This combination of apps is lighter than any AV and will work on very old hardware as well as more modern equipment. On this system, the 3 combined are using under 6MB of memory.

    I also have flash and java installed. Javascript is enabled and tightly controlled by Proxomitron. The browser cache is on a Ramdrive, automatically cleaned. Unlike DW, I removed Internet Explorer and use either SeaMonkey or K-Meleon, and can browse anywhere I want without any problems.

    Contrary to what MS and others want you to believe, 98 can be made very secure for web use. With unofficial improvements like KernelEX, Revolutions Pack, and NUSB, 98 can be made more functional and stable than it's ever been. I use 98 constantly, even though I have XP on the same PC.
     
  10. dw2108

    dw2108 Registered Member

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    noone_particular

    thanks for the kernelex info i've got ssm and the fortego all-seeing eye running with a few other 2k/xp/0x/vista/7 toys via orca! have the revolutions pack and bd 10 free and everything else! :D

    :D don't ever turn me onto something like this EVER AGAIN!:D i've got 98 se running TOO much XP AV/AM crap!

    Dave/9
     
  11. noone_particular

    noone_particular Registered Member

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    Then I guess you don't want to know that the just released KernelEX RC version has even more improvements, and more apps will run with it than ever before.
    :D
     
  12. dw2108

    dw2108 Registered Member

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    NOIDONOTWANTTOKNOWDARNIT!

    And I AM insalling it in a few seconds! :D

    Now to see all the other AV/AM apps that will work. PG+A2+Avast 5+SSM+Fortego ASE+MUCH MUCH MORE is enough already. OR IS IT?

    Dave
     
  13. sg09

    sg09 Registered Member

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  14. dw2108

    dw2108 Registered Member

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    Have KernelEX. Will Install :D

    Seriously, am tweaking the registry to get MBAM on board as an AV. Need some more luck.

    Dave

    PS AVZ is running OK with a few tweaks.
     
  15. CloneRanger

    CloneRanger Registered Member

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    @ dw2108

    What nice memories you've supplied with all those 98se apps :) I really enjoyed it and hardly had any BSOD's inspite of what some others said :p I can vouch for most of those apps, as i also used them at some time. And yes, it can be made VERY safe, as can IE6 ;) I never got infected even visiting Lots of malware infested www's :D

    I ran it quite happily with 256MB's of ram, running all sorts of software.

    Other posters have also suggested some good ideas and apps :thumb:

    The ONLY reason i moved to XP was because some sotware i needed to use wouldn't work on 98 :(
     
  16. noone_particular

    noone_particular Registered Member

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    I hope that you're not running all of that. That's a major overkill. PG and SSM are both quite capable of keeping 98 malware free. One of the primary reasons I stopped using AVs is the performance hit. Yes, with newer hardware, the impact is less, but I'd rather use the extra resources for my tasks. When properly implemented, a default-deny setup has almost no impact on performance.

    KernelEx is primarily intended to enable more user software to run on 9X systems, apps like FireFox, Open Office, newer PDF apps, etc. It adds several APIs used by newer apps that aren't part of 9X systems. KernelEX probably won't help with apps that run at low levels like HIPS and most AVs. There is one potential downside to KernelEX that needs to be investigated. The added APIs that make it possible to run more software might also make it possible for more malicious code to affect 98 that didn't work on it before. Another reason to implement default-deny on such a system.

    A lot of the resource problems associated with 98 are actually the fault of the underpowered hardware it was installed on. Give 98 some real hardware and it will shock you with what it can do. I repartitioned my XP unit (P4-2.4GHZ, 1GB RAM) and installed 98SE on it. It is fast, and stable! Revolutions Pack has also significantly reduced the resource handling problems in 9X systems. It's also made it a much nicer looking OS by adding several themes, smooth text, and other visual improvements. The Black Mesa theme with 32 bit icons is sharp.

    NUSB gives 98 USB compatibility that's comparable to XP, if your hardware is up to it. The built in hardware on my old 98FE wasn't, but the USB card I installed was. Even 98FE works well with external hard drives, flash drives, card readers, etc with NUSB installed.

    I encourage anyone who is using or still has a 98 box to give KernelEX, RP9 and NUSB a try. It's all free. It's all being actively developed by some very talented people. They've also got some nice unofficial service packs for 98. A new one for 98FE was just released. For those who enjoyed 98 and its lightweight, straight forward simplicity, these upgrades make it an even better OS that's more compatible with newer software and hardware. A defualt-deny security policy can secure it quite well, making it safe for everyday use.
     
  17. dw2108

    dw2108 Registered Member

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    noone_particular

    Not to worry! I load all those apps at once when and only when I want to rub the nose of a NT/200x/XP/Vista/7 user in it by having VERY MANY conspicuous tray icons! :D Not even running an AV/AM realtime and using only AVZ as an on demand scanner even though it takes no RAM. Just having tons of fun testing the effectiveness of some of most of these on 9x/ME systems owing to the fact that AntiVir, e.g., runs well with KernelEX, but its database covers stuff we can't even get. I'm beginning to feel left out.

    Dave
     
  18. ellison64

    ellison64 Registered Member

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    The problem with 98 was the limited resources issue not the memory,which either required you to shutdown applications or reboot.Personally I wouldnt bother with an av ,but would use a something like scriptrap and admuncher (which can also block malicious links)
    ellison
     
  19. The Hammer

    The Hammer Registered Member

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    What about something cloud based or is 98 too old?
     
  20. dw2108

    dw2108 Registered Member

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    98 TOO OLD? NO FLIPPING WAY! But, here's what I did for cloud trials and some other stuff. I -- and forgive me for saying this -- loaded XP on another PC. I made a few empty do-nothing files on the 98 PC such as Documents and Settings as well as some subfolders and ditto in the Windows dir so that these AV/AM apps could find a home for their files. Works great. May need to add a registry key once in a while. Not often. Dropped my firewall at for system sniffing out of curiosity. Told me I was running XP SP 4! YES, SP4!

    AV/AM apps are out there free for 9x/ME, and am trying this on Win 3.1 by adding the 98 SE registry to certain files. Still get too many blue screens, but recall that 3.1 ran on 720 KB RAM! Boots too quickly.

    ScripTrap or ScriptDefender (which blocks ANYTHING intercepted), SpywareBlaster, Winsonar, SSM Free or just Opera and Proxomitron may be overkill! Who knows.

    Dave

    Bye, bye Windows 7! R.I.P. 9x/ME users have regained control of the AV/AM industry! No to go to DOS!
     
  21. noone_particular

    noone_particular Registered Member

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    It's very unlikely that any of them will support Win98. Some of them might possibly work on a 98 system equipped with KernelEX but there's no way to know without trying them. Chances are that they won't work properly even if they install and run.
    You're right. Bad choice of words on my part. True, 98 doesn't manage resources as well as it should, but a lot of the problem is caused by apps that waste resources and don't release them properly. IE6 is one of the worst for this. If the user chooses apps that use resources efficiently, this issue laregly disappears. Revolutions Pack has also improved resource handling in 9X systems. My 98 system gets used for everything, save a few games. It will run for several days with no problems.

    Don't blame ya for that. Heard far too many of the "get with the times" comments to let such opportunities slip by. Now Win-2000 and XP-SP2 users are in the same boat, listening to the same rhetoric we have had to. Instead of just tray icons, I like to show them something.
    like this from my 98 box.
     
  22. Pliskin

    Pliskin Registered Member

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    I like the taskbar. Is that some app, theme or ... ?
     
  23. progress

    progress Guest

    ... but if a rootkit has infected your system you won't be able to remove all traces - Prevention is better than cure :'(

    It's time to buy a new laptop, Win98 isn't supported any more ...
     
  24. CloneRanger

    CloneRanger Registered Member

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    With winsonar and/or ssm set up properly, that won't happen :D I can personally vouch for that ;)
     
  25. noone_particular

    noone_particular Registered Member

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    Most rootkits will not function properly on a 9X system. They're designed for NT systems. I have a couple of malware samples that behave very much like a rootkit on 98. The process, files, and associated registry entries are all hidden from conventional tools. Even SSM doesn't detect the process once it's running. Even so, the malware isn't completely hidden. Windows own registry editor doesn't show it, but 3rd party registry editors show anomalies like duplicate entries. It's also partly visible in safe mode and completely visible to DOS. For such a "rootkit" to work, it has to be installed and launched the first time, both of which are intercepted by apps like SSM. A default-deny policy that prevents an unknown from executing makes that impossible without the users approval.

    A rootkit would have to be designed to work on a 9X system to be effective. The average malware writer/criminal won't bother doing so, too few potential targets to justify the effort. The only ones who would bother making a 9X rootkit are those who "need" to be able to compromise such a system, 3-letter agency people for instance.

    It's quite wasteful to put a resident AV on a 98 system when the majority of what it detects doesn't affect a 98 system. A manual scanner is fine as long as it doesn't require several resident processes to work. If it's just individual files that are going to be scanned, just use VirusTotal.
    That's Revolutions Pack, Black Mesa theme.
     
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