My router, is it dead ?

Discussion in 'hardware' started by Fly, Jul 3, 2009.

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  1. Fly

    Fly Registered Member

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    I've been having connection problems for a while (for reference: see https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=243275 , https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=243346 ).

    I've tried some things. The configuration is (or rather, was): computer with USB adapter (and firmware), wireless connection between the USB adapter and the router, router connected by cable/wire to my modem. Nothing else in the network.
    It has worked without problems for a long time.

    I've tried a lot to fix my recent connection problems.

    Last time I reset my router, I was able to configure it. For each change the router needs to be restarted. That went fine until last time, when (before even encrypting the connection), I set UPNP to disable. The router restarted, and that was the last time I could access it.

    Subsequent resets appeared to have no effect. It's a Sitecom router. If I can trust the firmware of my adapter - and in the past I always could - the router isn't even broadcasting as a Sitecom router. I didn't rename it. Some time ago, when I had these problems, unplugging the modem and router, turning on the modem, when it was done connecting it to the router and turning on the router, I could see a Sitecom signal in the list of networks (mine and others). This is no longer the case. Even if I put the router in the same room as the computer and turn on the power, I can't receive a signal.
    Note: I cannot plug in both the router and the network (internet) cable to my computer, there is only one slot for that type of cable on my computer.

    I've tried to get direct access to my router by plugging it in my computer, both LAN and WAN, but I can't seem to access the router in any way.
    Here my memory gets a little fuzzy: I think that by connecting my router to my computer by cable/wire gave me some kind of IP (no gateway I think), I could PING it without packet loss, but that's it !

    What is also weird: during the last couple of resets the WPA encryption (according to my adapter's firmware) did not (always) go away. Factory standard: no encryption.
    I do have the latest firmware. Attempts to reset the router again seem unsucessful.

    I think I also changed the MAC addres of the router, but I'm not sure. I can't seem to access it anyway.

    As it stands now, when I plug in my router, the lights go on, but that's it.
    I bought this one in 2007.

    Is it dead ?
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2009
  2. ronjor

    ronjor Global Moderator

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    If you can't reset your router, I would say it has a problem somewhere.
     
  3. eagle5

    eagle5 Registered Member

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    Looks like it's on the way out....no point compromising your security when the prices of routers are fairly cheap nowadays.
     
  4. Fly

    Fly Registered Member

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    Obviously ! :p

    'cheap' is relative. I went to a shop and checked out some routers, but the Sitecom routers INCLUDING USB adaptor (my preference) were priced at about 70 or 80 euros, possibly a bit more.

    I don't trust my ISP and would rather not buy a router from them.

    Would anyone please suggest a particular brand(s) that is good (not vulnerable), has a sufficiently strong signal (many wireless signals where I live) and is reasonably cheap, or at least not too expensive.

    I guess noone can think of a way to get access to my router again ?
     
  5. SweX

    SweX Registered Member

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    Sorry no solution here Fly !-)

    But since you are talking about to buy a new router i really want to recommend a router that is extremely nice. Not only because I got one but user reviews, and expert reviews is really nice as well.

    Its a DrayTek 2820n
    The WIFI signal is great as i have experienced so far.

    (It's not cheap but you definetely get what you pay for)

    Read more about it here, and also reviews from people that have bought it.

    http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/Shop/ShopDetail.asp?ProductID=5267 <

    SweX
     
  6. Fly

    Fly Registered Member

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    Thanks, but the price as mentioned in that URL is too high for me.
     
  7. Fly

    Fly Registered Member

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    No alternate suggestions to get access to my router ('the light are on') ?
     
  8. Raza0007

    Raza0007 Registered Member

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    @Fly, a similar thing happened to my linksys wrtg54 router some months ago. I was upgraded the firmware and after rebooting the router stopped responding. The lights were on but that was it, nothing else worked. I tried hitting reset button but nothing happened. I obviously thought the router was toast. I remember, I turned the power to the router on and off a couple of times and then left it on for about 20 minutes while I browsed through the user guide that I had downloaded earlier. I then again proceeded to turn the power on and off a couple of times more and then suddenly my router starting working. Now, I did not do anything else other then the above mentioned procedure. My router has been working fine since then. I can just assume it was a temporary glitch due to my upgrading of the firmware. Your router may be facing a similar glitch. Try turning the power on and off and leave it on for some time, then try to access it through a wired connection, making sure it is not being accessed though wireless connection at the same time.

    I know this is not much help but just thought I should mention it. Maybe you can get your router working again.

    Also, check if there is something wrong with the routers power adapter. If the router is not receiving constant power it might have hanged.

    Check if the reset button at the back is not broken. Sometimes if you press it with a lot of force it remains pressed.

    Hope this was helpful.
     
  9. Fly

    Fly Registered Member

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    Thank you. I'll give it a try.
     
  10. axial

    axial Registered Member

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    Have you tried to do the "restore to factory defaults" process -- most mfg have a way to do this by holding in the reset button down for an extra long time.

    Unfortunately it seems like many mfg have a specific sequence of steps that they suggest, but in case it's any use, here's the blurb from my router. (your router may not have backup firmware capabilities, so these instructions may not be 100% applicable to yours):

     
  11. Fly

    Fly Registered Member

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    There is only one way to reset the router, which is by pressing the reset button. I don't think there is a difference between a soft (?) reset and a hard reset, just one type. I've tried pressing that button for over a minute or even longer. In the past I would see some lights flashing when I reset the router, but now it doesn't respond in any way.

    Raza0007, I will try your approach later.
     
  12. Fly

    Fly Registered Member

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    Well, I tried connecting my router to my computer by wire.
    But I can't plug in that wire and the one that connects my computer to the internet, since there is only one slot.

    I can't get past 'obtaining network address'. I can't get access to the router.

    I've tried one little trick: wired internet connection, then quickly plugging in the wire from my modem into my router (I've tried both LAN and WAN), and the wire/cable from my router into my computer.

    If I do that it seems I can get access the router for 1-3 seconds, ipconfig /all gives some data, so there is a connection, but then I lose it.

    I suspect that cloning a/the MAC address is what killed my router, although not instantly. And the factory reset doesn't reset the cloned MAC (?).

    I've given up.
     
  13. Raza0007

    Raza0007 Registered Member

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    @Fly, if you can access your router for 1-3 seconds then your router is not toast, something else is going on. I do not understand what you mean by you can not connect your computer to the router as there is just one slot? You must have a DSL modem and then a router and then your computer. The telephone wire goes to the dsl modem. An ethernet cable goes from the DSL modem to the router and then from the router you have either a wireless connection or an ethernet connection, in which case another ethernet cable will go from the router to your computer's ethernet/network card.

    All you need to do is to connect your computer through an ethernet cable with your router's LAN port and then try to access your router through windows explorer by typing in the local IP of the router which is normally 192.168.1.1

    See if you can access your router. You do not need to have it connected to the internet for this to work.
     
  14. Fly

    Fly Registered Member

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    The first part: I can connect my router by wire to my computer, OR I can connect my modem to my computer by wire. The cable/wire that comes with my router and is meant to connect to my modem, AND the cable/wire (from ISP) that is needed to make a direct connection between the modem and my computer are BOTH of the same type, and there is only one slot for that type of cable/wire on the outside of my computer. (Although I haven't opened the computer yet to check if there is a similar slot inside the casing of the computer.)

    In the past this was never a problem, I used a wireless USB adapter for the connection between my computer and my router. There is an ethernet card inside the computer, but I haven't been able to get it to work with the router. I currently use a direct (wired) connection between the the ethernet card/computer and the modem.
    Maybe I could get this sorted out by figuring out a way to connect BOTH my computer to my modem AND connect (by wire) my router to my computer simultaneously. Maybe something could be done with switches, converters or whatever, but I don't feel like spending money if I can't get it functioning properly anyway.

    Quote: 'All you need to do is to connect your computer through an ethernet cable with your router's LAN port and then try to access your router through windows explorer by typing in the local IP of the router which is normally 192.168.1.1'
    That doesn't work. I've tried that 192 thing but I just can't get any access.

    About the 'trick' I mentioned in the previous post: in that way I can get a very brief connection, but it doesn't last long enough for me to do anything.
    I can just type 'ipconfig /all', and it gives me two numbers. Not sure what they are. IP and gateway ? Those numbers both start with an 8, that's all I remember. I can't really do anything with that, it lasts 1-3 seconds and then I lose the connection.

    I might get it working if I can hook up both the router and the modem to my computer, but then, I've been having problems over a couple of weeks.
    I'm not really eager to spend more time on this or spend money in vain in order to fix a dysfunctional router.
     
  15. Fly

    Fly Registered Member

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    'All you need to do is to connect your computer through an ethernet cable with your router's LAN port and then try to access your router through windows explorer by typing in the local IP of the router which is normally 192.168.1.1'

    I just decided to give that another try, but I didn't get any further than 'obtaining network address'. Checking the data of the configuration/connection: MAC address, real or otherwise, no valid IP, for the rest: nothing.

    I just can't access the thing !
     
  16. Raza0007

    Raza0007 Registered Member

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    After reading your post I gather that you are directly connected to your dsl modem through ethernet and at the same time you are connected to your router through usb. I am not sure but that might be causing your problem.

    I have a similar setup. Dsl modem is given to me by my ISP and I have my own wireless router. This is what I do. The ethernet cable from the modem goes to my routers WAN/Internet port and then from the router's LAN ports another ethernet cable goes to one of my pc's ethernet card. My other computer connects to the router through a wireless connection. So, I have both modem and router in the network and everything works fine. I can guide you through a step-by-step procedure if you want.

    Now as for your problem, when you connect the computer directly to the routers LAN ports, make sure that the TCP/IPv4 settings of the PC's ethernet card is set to receive "IP automatically". If your PC is set with a fixed IP in the DHCP range of the modem, then your router will not be able to assign your PC an IP and you will not be able to access the router.

    Try this, maybe you can get your router to work.

    I am curious, if you are directly connected to your dsl modem then how do you browse internet wirelessly through your router? as obviously if your modem is connected to your computer, it can not be connected to your router at the same time?
     
  17. lodore

    lodore Registered Member

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    can you give us a simple diagram of how you normally plugin your modem and router to your computer?
     
  18. Fly

    Fly Registered Member

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    My previous setup (when the router was still functional):

    Modem, connected by wire to router, router broadcasts a wireless signal (WPA-PSK encrypted) to the wireless USB adapter which was plugged into my computer. No other devices in the network. I had disabled the ethernet card ('turned off'). No direct cable/wire from my computer to my modem or router. Just wireless.

    Current setup: removed USB adaptor, enabled the ethernet card, direct connection between computer and modem by wire/cable, ipconfig /renew, and I can access the internet without problems. No wireless setup.


    My OS is a non-English version, so I have to translate some things as well as I can. Also, I don't feel comfortable posting IP numbers, even though they are probably just the router's (?).

    About your suggestion in your third paragraph (I just tried it):
    (IP is set 'automatically') No current wireless setup.
    NEXT:
    Disconnecting the wired connection between my computer and the modem.
    Connecting my computer by wire to the LAN port of my router and turning on my router (power).
    This is what happens next:

    Obtaining network address.
    Address type: invalid IP address
    IP address 0.0.0.0
    Subnetmask 0.0.0.0
    DEFAULT GATEWAY, DNSSERVER AND WINSERVER are empty. (there is no information displayed in those fields)
    This last a a short while.

    NEXT: I get: address type DHCP enabled, IP number 82.etc. subnet mask 255.255.254.0 default gateway 82.etc. But I cannot acess the router by typing in one of those IPs, or the 192. one.
    This last for only a brief moment.

    This is what follows next: (some messsage about limited or no connection)
    Address type: automatic personal address
    IP address 169.etc.
    Default gateway, dns server, winserver are empty (there is no information displayed) I can't access the router by typing the 169.X IP, or the 192.X IP or by any other way I know of.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2009
  19. Fly

    Fly Registered Member

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    'I have a similar setup. Dsl modem is given to me by my ISP and I have my own wireless router. This is what I do. The ethernet cable from the modem goes to my routers WAN/Internet port and then from the router's LAN ports another ethernet cable goes to one of my pc's ethernet card. My other computer connects to the router through a wireless connection. So, I have both modem and router in the network and everything works fine. I can guide you through a step-by-step procedure if you want.'

    I have tried placing the router between my computer and my modem, but it just doesn't work. Some time ago, when my router was not functioning properly I tried such a setup, and it worked some of the time, till, for some reason, I lost the connection. Currently I can't use that configuration AT ALL, it won't even give me access to the internet for one second. I don't feel checking out the error messages, unless you think that's really useful.

    I 've just been spending much more time on this issue than I intended. :ouch:
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2009
  20. Raza0007

    Raza0007 Registered Member

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    @Fly,

    Well, your explanation clears up your network setup.

    I gather you are not interested in solving your problem anymore. If this is the case then it is fine with me. My hunch is (since you were unable to get your system working when you connected the router in between your modem and computer) that your router is working fine, but you can not access it because of incorrect settings. If the router can not assign your computer an IP address then your computer will not be able to access the router. The router will be working (lights on) but inaccessible. If this is the case and you buy a new router you will again encounter same problem.

    Also, if you are interested in diagnosing the problem let me know your OS and router's make and model number.
     
  21. Fly

    Fly Registered Member

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    I might be interested if it seems that any further work will actually solve my problem ! Incorrect settings ? Probably. But since I don't know how to access it (and the manual and the FAQ don't help either) I don't see how I could change the settings. I can't indeed be sure that ANY new router would work. It would depend on the router, my modem, and my ISP.
     
  22. Raza0007

    Raza0007 Registered Member

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    Right, then you need to provide me with some information.

    From your previous post you mention you get two IP ranges 82.xxx.... , 169.xxx.... I do not understand how this can happen. Typically if you connect your computer to the routers LAN ports the router will assign your computer an IP in the range of its local IP. If local IP of the router is 192.168.1.1 then your computer will get a IP assigned in the range of 192.168.1.xxx

    What is the local IP of your router? There is no security issue here as all routers from same company have the same local IP.

    There is no need to use the IPconfig command. Just do these steps.

    Unplug your USB wireless adapter from your computer. If the wireless network card is still displayed in the computer then right click and disable it.

    Unplug your dsl modem from your computer.

    Disable all other network cards other then the ethernet card.

    Now, right click your ethernet card icon and go to properties. In TCP/IPv4 make sure every thing is set to "obtain automatically"

    Now, connect your computer with the router's LAN port through ethernet cable. Make sure your router is not connected with the modem or anything connected to the WAN port of the router for this, as we just want to access the router and do not want to browse internet.

    Now, open internet explorer or any browser and type the local IP of your router. Local IP is unique to your brand of router. You can find this from the routers manual.

    If your router is working fine you will get a prompt to enter user name and password, which would be the default user name and password for your brand of router (I am assuming you have already used the reset button).

    If your router is not toast then this would work. If it does not try pressing the rest button gently for 20 seconds and then repeat the procedure. If it still does not work you need to get a new router.

    You can do all this in your spare time.

    Let me know how it goes.
     
  23. Fly

    Fly Registered Member

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    Raza0007, I've done what you suggested.

    It didn't work.

    I cannot access the router by means of the 192.X 'IP' as described in my manual.

    When I try to establish a connection, I see that it is trying to obtain a network address.

    This last a while.

    When it seems there is a connection (no more trying to obtain a network address), I type the 'IP' as mentioned in my router's manual. Next, I receive a messasage like 'invalid address' (non-English OS). Then I see a message about no or limited network (or internet?) access at the bar at the bottom of my screen. I've tried this more than once. Sometimes I get that message before I can even type the IP.

    So that didn't work.

    Using ctrl-printscrn I was able to capture some data during my latest attempt.
    It stated: assigned by DHCP (not literally, non-English OS).
    IP addres 82.etc NOTE: this is NOT my real IP which is assigned to me by my ISP. Although my real IP also starts with 82. , but it is different.
    Subnetmask 255.255.254.0
    Default gateway 82.X , not the same as my real IP or that other 'IP' as mentioned above.
    This lasts for only a second.

    Then I get:
    Address type: automatic personal address
    IP address 169.X
    subnetmask 255.255.0.0
    gateway <empty field>
    I cannot connect to the router by either the default 192.X IP as mentioned in the manual, nor with the 169.X IP or with the 'IP' mentioned in the previous paragraph. (By just typing it in my browser).
    I have also tried tweaking something (I don't recall exactly what), causing the router/connection to keep the data as mentioned in the previous paragraph. Even in this situation I cannot access the router by typing some sort of IP in my browser (IE 7). But a 'ping' to that strange IP (mentioned in the previous paragraph) was succesful, no packet loss or time-outs. A 'ping' to that gateway IP resulted in time-outs.

    Btw, I tried googling the 169.X IP, zero results.

    In a brief paper manual it states that for the installation of the router it is assumed I have a working broadband internet connection. I can't find any answers in the full manual either.

    I MAY be able to get some results by altering something in the driver for my ethernet card, but I'm not sure what to do, and I think I need to create a new image (imaging software plus hardware) and restore it many times in the hope to get things working. :ouch:
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2009
  24. Raza0007

    Raza0007 Registered Member

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    I read you detailed answer, some aspects of it do not seem right. Your router should not be assigning you an IP starting with 82.xx.... or 169.xx... Also both subnets were different and nonstandard.

    Are you sure you were not connected to the internet while doing the procedure?

    You can go ahead and get a new router if you prefer, but I will advise you to take your router to a friend who knows about networking and get it checked first, before you spend money on a new router.
     
  25. Fly

    Fly Registered Member

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    Yeah, I'm sure I wasn't connected to the internet.

    I've had an issue somewhat like this in the past.
    I recall having some trouble upgrading the firmware. According to the manual/instructions I had to connect the router directly by wire
    (not wireless) to my computer, but I just couldn't succeed in creating that wired connection. (Maybe there was a way). Anyway, I managed to download the firmware and upgrade my router wirelessly !

    I'll give this some thought.
     
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