My Internet Service Provider said there’s no need for me to install Firewall.

Discussion in 'other firewalls' started by sweater, Sep 25, 2005.

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  1. sweater

    sweater Registered Member

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    I talk to our ISP personnel here in our city and he said that their server already has a built-in firewall and rest assured me that they’re using a Linux server. They’re provider of both broadband and dial-up internet services, and I’m using dial-up net connection. I doubt if I can really trust for what they say coz I scan for stealth test w a firewall turn-off and I failed on all stealthed tests. What’s your reaction to this? :rolleyes: :-*
     
  2. FirePost

    FirePost Registered Member

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    Find another ISP that actually knows what they are talking about? This is the kind of ignorance that lets worms propagate.
     
  3. rdsu

    rdsu Registered Member

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    Don't believe on your ISP!!!
     
  4. Devinco

    Devinco Registered Member

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    You have to have a firewall set up and configured (password protected preferably) even on dial up before you connect to the internet. I would say it has an even higher priority than anti-virus. Once your firewall is up then you can take care of your other priorities. Even Microsoft's Firewall is better than nothing.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2005
  5. Rilla927

    Rilla927 Registered Member

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    Re: My Internet Service Provider said there’s no need for me to install Firewall.

    My ISP said I didn't need a software FW also, what's wrong with these people? And this was a tier two tech that said this. Don't trust your ISP, trust your gut instinct.

    Rilla927
     
  6. bigc73542

    bigc73542 Retired Moderator

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    Re: My Internet Service Provider said there’s no need for me to install Firewall.

    sounds like their help doesn't know much about the internet or computers. Thats a shame since they are an IP
     
  7. Kerodo

    Kerodo Registered Member

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    Must be a common experience. Mine told me the same thing a few years ago when I first got cable installed. They looked and saw Norton AV here and told me that's all I need. Of course I didn't listen to them, and proceeded to install Sygate at the time. Not sure what they're thinking...
     
  8. FastGame

    FastGame Registered Member

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    After reading this thread I called my ISP, they told me that I didn't need a firewall o_O

    Must be an ISP conspiracy going on :blink:
     
  9. Kye-U

    Kye-U Security Expert

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    Re: My Internet Service Provider said there’s no need for me to install Firewall.

    *barf*
     
  10. Kerodo

    Kerodo Registered Member

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    :D

    Those were the old days... I'd never use Norton again.. I use Avast now and wouldn't part with it for anything. Wouldn't touch Sygate anymore either..
     
  11. LowWaterMark

    LowWaterMark Administrator

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    Personally, I think many of them do it on purpose because they don't want to handle the trouble calls that misconfigured firewalls can cause. But, clearly a lot of them just don't know any better, as well.

    Sigh... My parents got cable internet a few months back and they went through the same thng. In fact, the cable installer couldn't get the cable to connect on their PC, so he uninstalled their firewall saying it was interfering with their connection. That didn't fix it though, so he concluded their PC was bad, probably a lemon and they'd have to call the PC company about it. I went there and fixed it in 1 minute. It was sitting trying to acquire network address... For some reason DHCP wasn't enabled, which was needed to make the connection. Once I enabled it, it connected right up and has been working ever since. Hmm... lemon, eh? :rolleyes:
     
  12. Mrkvonic

    Mrkvonic Linux Systems Expert

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    Hi,
    Sounds like a bunch fo amateurs.
    You should always use firewall with Windows, no matter what. By the way, most serious isp block the common worm ports. The rest is up to you.
    Mrk
     
  13. TraCKs

    TraCKs Registered Member

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    Reminds me when i first went online in early 2003, i bought a 2nd hand puter that had ZA free installed, and i rung my ISP for some problem i was having and when they found out i had ZA installed, they told me to uninstall it, as it will only cause trouble, and me not knowing anything uninstalled it. From that point on my puter was nearlly unusable due to popups. Ive since learned other wise....
     
  14. djg05

    djg05 Registered Member

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    My ISP supply a f/w at their end that I can configure for basic vulnerabilities, and also some content filtering. They don't suggest that is all you need. I just see it as an added layer of protection remote to my machine.
     
  15. Optimist

    Optimist Registered Member

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  16. Socio

    Socio Registered Member

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    I built my brother a system about a year ago with a firewall, av software, antispyware programs all ready installed, his ISP told him the same thing and he un-installled all those programs.

    He had to send the computer back to me less than a month later to fix it as it had become so infected with crap he could hardly use it or even get it to boot most of the time.

    Since then he has kept the firewall,AV and antispyware software running and had no such problems.

    You got to remember these a lot of ISP techs are slightly above minimum wage noobs that are really not techs at all they basically use a check list to answer questions. I bet half of them think a hard drive is when someone hits a golf ball with a golf club real hard.
     
  17. Rilla927

    Rilla927 Registered Member

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    Re: My Internet Service Provider said there’s no need for me to install Firewall.

    @Bigc: You are exactly right!

    @LowWaterMark: I think you're right about the ISP not wanting to handle the calls related to the FW issues. If they would just take the time to help educate the consumers when they have a problem, no, instead they tell the consumer to uninstall their FW, it's not needed. :mad: By them telling people stupid things like that are going to cause more calls for themselves.

    Isn't that amazing what customers have to go through due to ingnorance of others, it doesn't surprise me at all. Too many people lack the real skills needed for the position they hold out there in the World, and these are the ones that we get on the other end of the phone when we have a problem, that's SAD.

    It is surprising for me to learn when I called my ISP and had a list of questions to ask about the FW (router based FW- 2Wire) how flexible and configurable the FW really is. I have had almost two years and never thought to take a look.Eeeek! It's just an area I never tackled before. Recently I have been trying to educate myself on FW'S, because I know I'll be better off.

    Needless to say, the tier two Tech I spoke with led me to the page where the advanced settings were and I see an option to "Block Pings" and "Stealth all ports" (which I checked) and all types of pre-set lists for games and apps. If the app wasn't there you could add manually. There were ports I have never seen before. All in all I was happy to find these settings, but the tier two Tech still could not answer the majority of my questions, he told me straight out, he didn't know much about the FW aspect of it. Since I've stealthed all ports, I now pass all the tests, where I didn't before.

    Here is an example of a couple ports I have never seen before and don't what they mean: H323 is on Outbound and NNTP is on Outbound. It also has "Strict UDP Session Control". If anyone has any ideas, give a shout.

    Forgot to add. The Tech I spoke with said that the majority of his calls are due to people putting ZA on their computer. They end up with no connection. He said he don't know if folks just don't know how to configure it, and or, combination of bugs in program. He said, no one ever admits that they don't know.

    Thanks to everyone for their input

    Rilla927 :D
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2005
  18. Notok

    Notok Registered Member

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    Re: My Internet Service Provider said there’s no need for me to install Firewall.

    Glad someone in this thread finally got someone that has a clue, lol :D

    I used to do ISP tech support, and yes.. there are a lot of dolts in those places. In addition to what Socio said about them being minimum wage newbies (it's either that or Indian tech support these days, it seems) they're also under tremendous pressure to get you off the phone as fast as possible. These places are generally outsourced companies that get paid by the number of calls they take, so they get rewarded for taking shortcuts and not doing the right thing. It's a pretty sad situation, good techs often burn out/have nervous breakdowns, and/or get fired because their call-times are too high. That said, I've encountered some really good tech support places out there. My local phone company has a very relaxed and competent team of techs that know what they're doing and know how to treat you. It's probably a good idea to call an ISPs tech support before signing up with them, if possible.

    If an ISP instructed me to turn off my firewall, I would probably ask them if they're going to pay the repair bill when the system gets infected :)
     
  19. Rilla927

    Rilla927 Registered Member

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    Re: My Internet Service Provider said there’s no need for me to install Firewall.

    Notok, I agree that there are good Tech's out there, just seems like the bad sure out weigh the good, at least in my experiences. ;)

    When you say call times are too high; do you mean because the Tech is spending too much time on one call?

    I guess I have to call my ISP back and ask specifically for someone that has knowledge of the FW so I can get my answers to my questions that the first tech couldn't answer. Fair to midland!
     
  20. Sxperm

    Sxperm Registered Member

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    Re: My Internet Service Provider said there’s no need for me to install Firewall.

    I don't believe that word said from..ISP staff. They don't know what they're talking about and sure that they can't guarantee and responsible if some worm harm your system. ( :p or they might but I think it's useless) As above said "DO NOT TRUST THEM" Install firewall and protect yourself by yourself for yourself ;)
     
  21. Mrkvonic

    Mrkvonic Linux Systems Expert

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    Well,
    I must say that my ISP guys did a rather good job there.
    After I configured the dialer for network (I don't want dhcp I want vpn...), after a few reboots the dialer would not connect. So I called them, and they asked me what firewall I was using. I tells them: ZA.
    And then ... the guy asks me, did I configure an advanced rule for the server or dialer? Pretty nice answer, eh, considering what is said above in other threads. So there I goes, configures a rule, and indeed, it works.
    But they did not suggest uninstalling anything or like.
    Furthermore, they offered me KAV 2006 with full 24hour telephone and online support for $2.8 a month, nice eh? Should I go for KAV?
    Mrk
     
  22. Albinoni

    Albinoni Registered Member

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    So if your ISP's server FW fails, gets badly corrupted what ever disregards on what its running, than your PC will be doomed as well. To me there is no such thing as a 100% perfect FW or AV software but there are very good ones out there that do the job and having a good FW/AV installed is better than nothing, but again this doesnt mean that your PC is 100% full proof but gives you peace of mind.

    Do yourself a favour, install a good firewall on your system better to be safe than sorry.
     
  23. Rilla927

    Rilla927 Registered Member

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    Re: My Internet Service Provider said there’s no need for me to install Firewall.

    @Sxperm

    I agree!!!!

    @Mrkvonic

    you lucked out! Glad somebody did. Who is the one that offered you the KAV deal? You mean your ISP.

    @Albinoni

    I agree 110%! I talked to my ISP again yesterday, to try to get the answers I didn't get the first time, and this guy didn't know much more than the last guy. I again was told, I don't need to run a software FW. I asked him if SBC was going to pay to disinfect my PC everytime, and of course, he said no. I told him, by you telling customers that, you are putting them in DANGER. He said the FW in the router will protect you. Then I said, well you don't offer any Outbound SPI, only inbound. How is inbound only going to protect people. He finally changed the subject. I don't know about some of these people!
     
  24. Sxperm

    Sxperm Registered Member

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    Re: My Internet Service Provider said there’s no need for me to install Firewall.

    If they've balls, have brain and IQ above 90 they should know that hardware firewall it's useless what ever they've good pre-config firewall or not. Firewall hardware ONLY closed ports that unused in terms to prevents trojan or rootkit pass throught danger ports, but as you know (at least guys in this forum) that most of trojan pass throught by normally ports (like http 80) and If IDS can't detect intruder signal then something terrible might be happen. You guys here know much more than (***) ISP staff. They said things that they don't know by their useless mind and can't even guarantee what they said. They might brought their customer as gifts to script kiddies over the world!! Do they have balls?? I don't think so. :D Sorry for my serious but I hate retarded people that try to act some cool with no brains.
     
  25. lotuseclat79

    lotuseclat79 Registered Member

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    Hi sweater,

    It easy to follow the so-called reasoning of why the ISP respondent replied as they did to you:

    They assume that Linux servers are under a lesser threat than your Windows computer, and due to their firewall they assume they won't get infected, and therefore, you shouldn't get infected! Polywog and Balderdash if you ask me. Ask them if their firewall keeps your IP address from getting port scanned and whether if it were, would your ports be stealthed with their firewall protecting only their server and not your computer without a firewall!

    What exactly did you expect when you ran the stealth tests with your firewall turned off?

    If there are two things I never turn off, its my firewall and anti-virus - at a minimum. It just agitates me that there are some folks out there who know about squat making these specious recommendations.

    -- Tom
     
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