Multi-AV Programs

Discussion in 'other anti-virus software' started by Kas, Apr 19, 2009.

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  1. Kas

    Kas Registered Member

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    Well, I`ll be damned ! I raised a thread on the use of multi-Firewalls and got a nice lot or replies from users on that which I appreciated and took notice of, although the issue is certainly NOT a finite science and nothing goes BANG if you do use multi-Firewalls.

    NOW ! I have to up-grade my AVG 8.0 Free because they tell me that it will not be supported after the 30th April 09 and I MUST upgrade to AVG 8.5 Free. OK like a good soldier I have done it.

    BUT ! when I was doing it, a panel came up with a message that " you have another AV system installed on your computer, it is not advisable to run two AV systems as they may conflict and we suggest you un-install the other one immediately".

    Who the hell do these people think they are ? They all use different data bases, if I want to use a 100 different AV programs, I will do it. What one does not catch, the others will.

    I have AVG, COMODO IS, Spyware Terminator and Spybot, all running at the same time and what is more they STAY running. I have been served well with this set up, never had a problem and until I get let down, it all stays put, regardless of individual suppliers comments.

    What do the Forum members think of this AVG comment that only ONE AV system should run on our PC`s ?

    Whilst I accept the Firewall scenario in essence but not in fact, I do not accept the same consensus of opinion for AV systems. What do all these people want ? A monopoly ?

    Your comments will be much appreciated.
    Many thanks
    KAS
     
  2. Tarq57

    Tarq57 Registered Member

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    It's not to do with a monopoly. (Not usually, anyway.)
    It is to do with the nature of the applications causing serious conflicts with one another. Even if not active; just installed.
    I've seen the results on a couple of occasions. Hardly conclusive anecdote, I know, but the phenomena is common enough that the advice you are most likely to get is "best don't do it."
    (There may be some combinations of AV's you might get away with running together, for a time. It seems that as their detection and removal abilities-of necessity- improve, the likelihood of finding those that "play well" will diminish to naught.)
     
  3. i_g

    i_g Registered Member

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    Very funny :D
    It's got nothing to do with databases - but with conflicts of the drivers that hook various OS actions (such as file access).
    If you install multiple resident scanners, there's a good chance that your system will freeze or bluescreen. Or, another possible scenario - a malicous file that, under normal circumstances, would be detected by both (all) of the scanners - suddenly goes undetected at all (because one of the scanners detects and removes temporary files created by the other one during the file processing, thus interfering with the detection).

    Yes, maybe you don't have any problems with multiple scanners installed (or more precisely - you think that you don't have any problems) - but the number of similar users is very low, compared to the huge userbase that would install multiple AVs unknowingly - and when their system stops working, they blame the latest installed AV for crashing their system, of course.
     
  4. Kas

    Kas Registered Member

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    I really appreciate all the replies from my Forum companions. Comments from this source are far better than a suppliers comments, be it that we do take their comments into account with reservations bearing in mind that they are SELLING a product.

    I would point out that security does not rely on ONE single measure alone. Nobody does that, not the military or private companies. Consider an Alarm, an Alsatian Dog and Me with an 0.44 Magnum. They ignore the alarm, they kill the dog and then they face me with the Magnum and I kill them - BANG they are gone ! Same with AV systems.

    I have had serious infections detected individually by ST, AVG and COMODO.

    Each one has a separate data base, say A,B,C. The only way absolute security can be assured is if ONE system had a data base of A+B+C, THEN we could have just ONE AV system installed.

    It is OK talking about Drivers conflict, but I am more concerned with outside intrusions trying to damage my system or steal my personal data.
    If I have to sacrifice my security to make the drivers have a nice day then I am very sorry but they will have to have a bad day.

    Not much getting around that scenario is there ?
    KAS
     
  5. Osaban

    Osaban Registered Member

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    It is one of the first warnings given to whoever wants to install a new AV, not only it is recommended to have one at the time running, but to carefully uninstall the previous one (you should read some of the horror stories linked to AVs leaving a host of registry entries behind, requiring special tools to remove them).

    You can have one resident (active) and one on demand (without the active guard), but I think the best compromise would be to have an AV with double engine like GDATA (using Avast and Bitdfender engines), which has the best detection according to AV Comparatives. It is heavier on the system than any single engine, but for someone like you who likes to run several at the same time maybe the best compromise. The only catch is that it's not free.
     
  6. Kas

    Kas Registered Member

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    I apologise firstly because I do not want to monopolise my own thread, but the message I am getting so far is that the epitome of security is to walk through central Fallujah in Iraq with only a Pea Shooter and a whistle.

    Does not seem a very good bet, the Marines would have second thoughts.
    KAS
     
  7. Tarq57

    Tarq57 Registered Member

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    To extend that analogy further, you would walk through >insert dodgy neighborhood here< with much more than a peashooter and a whistle. Id imagine you'd have a firearm. A flak jacket. Possibly a chemsuit/repirator. Possibly air support. Advance intelligence on hazards where you're heading. etc etc.
    You would probably not carry so many firearms that you couldn't actually use them effectively due to lack of mobility.
    See where I'm heading with this?
    One gun, if it's the right gun, combined with the other backup layers is what the average person in a hot zone would want. Plus maybe a sidearm for close in work. The sidearm could be analagous to a demand scanner, that you pull out and use in times of deep $#1t.
     
  8. JRViejo

    JRViejo Global Moderator

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    Kas, this is the official word from the AVG Forum: BEFORE INSTALLING AVG 8.5 FREE EDITION. However, in your situation, it seems that AVG and Comodo have been cohabitating quite nicely, except now when trying to update AVG, which could mean a driver conflict during that process.

    Since Comodo IS has an Antivirus component to it, perhaps all you need is to disable it, while installing AVG, then enabling it after a reboot. Found this in the Comodo forum: How to turn off Anti Virus when installing something. Hope it helps.
     
  9. zapjb

    zapjb Registered Member

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    I don't know anybody who runs more than 1 AV realtime. Imo/ime it's a disaster.
     
  10. Kas

    Kas Registered Member

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    Hello zapjb,
    I do know somebody who runs Spybot, Spywareblaster, Spyware Terminator, COMODO IS and AVG 8.5, all working in perfect harmony and without a trace of trouble of any kind after several years operation - so you know somebody now - ME !

    Four of these have Realtime protection, three are AV and SWB sits in ambush with it`s booby traps in the background. A super team.

    AVG 8.5 updated from 8.0 with no problem on the second try like a dream, without having to disable anything. All programs update automatically except ST, which is manually done by me every evening.

    Every one of these has caught virus`s and other infection attempts individually and my PC is completely clean. I scan with a selection of these regularly without problems and also have other manual programs like Malwarebytes etc to play with.

    On top of all this orchestral combination of security, I have Windows XP Home security systems all enabled. Yep, two Firewalls as well and everything goes with the flow.

    Guess I must be rather unique.
    KAS
     
  11. JRViejo

    JRViejo Global Moderator

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    Great to hear that! Keep on truckin' with your security symphony.
     
  12. EASTER

    EASTER Registered Member

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    How about that. A fellow after my own heart, and i thought i was the only one who HEAPED the security comando groups together so much together. LoL

    One thing i like to say about SpywareTerminator and i'll try to ignore the crawler crap they should have ditched years ago but seem married to them (UGH)

    If ST would allow for any AV to incorporate into their app like my little ScriptTrap app instead of filesclab only, they would already been well on their way to a healthy audience instead of some here and some there who use it. Shame really, but they can stay in limbo if thats their choice. I do like the On-Demand & HIPS part, but if i was them, i would stop wasting time with antispyware defs and do like i said and incorporate any AV of a users choice into their HIPS/Resident Protection Scheme, but think they would ever put their heart in something that efficient these days?

    Still, don't feel like lonesome George, get a load of my everyday security, NOD32, EQS, ProcessGuard, Mamutu, ScriptTrap, Sandboxie, and SUPERantispyware.

    Go for the gusto and make those bad boys work to pick a hole in our machines. :cool:
     
  13. Coff

    Coff Registered Member

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    For the past ten months or so I've had eight anti virus programs on both a pc and laptop. I did this as an experiment to see if there were any conflicts and there have been no problems. None of the programs run in real time and I use batch files and either taskkill or pskill to enable and disable services.

    AVG
    Comodo
    Avast
    Avira
    PCTools
    ClamWin
    Rising
    BitDefender

    I use System Safety Monitor for real time protection and have a few other anti spyware programs.

    As I say, it was done as an experiment and I've had no problems with conflicts or slowdowns on either system.

    20-04-2009 11-10-12.jpg
     
  14. Boost

    Boost Registered Member

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    They are correct,no reason to run more then 1 antivirus program.People want or feel the need for more security,add a HIPS program or some sort of virtulizaton software to compliment the AV.
     
  15. lodore

    lodore Registered Member

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    if you need more than one av i would assume you are get infected often.
    the solution is to change your surfing habits and also add a extra safety net such as HIPS.
    mutiple on demand scanners are fine.
    but its better to use stand alone on demand scanners rather than installing full av's and not installing the realt time protection.
    such as drweb cure it,f-secure easy clean,avptool,sysclean etc.
     
  16. Kas

    Kas Registered Member

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    Encouraging to say the least. Two or three posters above comply with my own experience that running several AV and Realtime programs gives no problem at all. Read my own post above, it is all very true and the only problem I am aware of is the individual competition between my Guardian Angels as to who gets the bad guy first.

    Re, the poster saying I must get a multitude of infections - wrong again chum, not me luv - I get very few, only need one hand to count them on in any given year and my surfing habits are as pure as an angels Halo.

    Well I appear to have some degree of support from the world at large, perhaps the Three Musketeers ?

    I can only say with great foreboding that if the posters above wish to rely on a single sling-shot to wander through the most comprehensive and complicated minefield of all time in this big bad world, infested with every conceivable kind of cons, frauds, criminal behaviour and nasty selling tactics ad infinitum, then may God go with you and good luck. Ya sure are gonna need it.

    Just make sure the elastic does not break or you don`t run out of pebbles.
    I am absolutely astounded that I am being told to wander about the bad lands with nothing more than a walking stick and a Hershey bar.
    KAS
     
  17. Osaban

    Osaban Registered Member

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    I suppose your original issue has been resolved. You are asking for advice, but then your thread becomes a survey about who does what. There is an appropriate section for polls.
     
  18. zapjb

    zapjb Registered Member

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    This is getting confusing. It was very much implied that OP was talking about running 2 or more AVs in realtime. I know thats a bad idea.

    But then theres talk of AS, SSD & other non AV programs running in realtime along with 1 AV. I think thats fine if you want.
     
  19. Kas

    Kas Registered Member

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    I sense a little confusion. Let me clear it up.

    The consensus of opinion is that if more than ONE AV program is run on Windows XP Home at the same time, then Armageddon will occur and Satan will descend upon us.

    Armageddon does NOT occur. In fact nothing occurs except a clean PC and the efficient operation of several security programs working in unison.
    Read my previous posts, I do not wish to re-invent the wheel.

    WHY then do you say this monumental disaster will occur when it does not ?
    It is NOT a poll, who is casting any votes ? We are merely trying to establish the relationship between opinion and fact.

    All that is being asked is why a prediction of disaster is made on the one hand, when nothing but good happens in practice on the other.

    Just concentrate on ;-

    Prediction = disaster ? - an opinion not supported by fact.
    Practice = perfect harmonious operation - completely supported by fact.
    KAS
    ====
    Actually, my initial question was "Why does AVG ask me to shut down other AV systems ?" When in fact it is not necessary. Several security programs can be run in unison without any conflict whatsoever, in fact it is an advantage. I simply wanted expert opinions. What I am getting is a consolidation of the AVG monopoly stance of ONE AV system only and the matter is becoming argumentative.

    It is clear to me now that using several security systems at the same time is highly advantageous and no conflict does occur. This is born out by my own impeccable results.
    Perhaps we had better close this thread.
    I would like to thank everybody who responded and sincerely express my gratitude to you all for your valued comments.
    KAS
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2009
  20. Joeythedude

    Joeythedude Registered Member

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    Hi Kas

    I'd think Spybot, Spywareblaster, Spyware Terminator would prob not conflict with each other.
    I'm surprised that COMODO IS and AVG 8.5 don't.

    Definatly in the past 2 AV's would screw up a lot of systems.If an AV was partially uninstalled , it would cause problems too.

    It could be out of date advice, and that because there are so many types of security prog , these days manufactures work hard to avoid conflicts.
    My undertstanding is that all security programs use a part of the OS called "system hooks". If 2 security apps try to use the same "system hook" , PC could crash.

    This page is what I base this on - skip most of it just look at the Research results near the end

    http://www.matousec.com/info/articles/plague-in-security-software-drivers.php


    If you have a good backup , and want to see more about this idea try running this program - but read the warnings.

    http://www.matousec.com/projects/bsodhook/


    I'd be very interested in what results you get.

    My guess at this point is that COMODO IS and AVG 8.5 won't have any thing highlighted in the report.

    But don't try it without a full working backup !

    Cheers
    J
     
  21. aniku

    aniku Registered Member

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    Does this not slow down the PC if i use Multi-AV Programs :p ?
     
  22. Taliscicero

    Taliscicero Registered Member

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    It can be done, I have had AVG and AVAST! running perfectly fine together before.

    AVAST = Web Traffic / File Monitor disabled.

    AVG = File monitor / WEB disabled.

    In essance you then have 2 AV programs running.

    Whats not found by Avast! AVG picks up when it becomes local.

    It works you just have to do a bit of trial and error first.
     
  23. markcc

    markcc Registered Member

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    As stated in an earlier post, you can run G Data, Trustport or F-Secure if you want more than one scanner looking at your system at the same time. This will help ensure that you don't run into problems & better your chances that everything will get along!
     
  24. Taliscicero

    Taliscicero Registered Member

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    F-secure has more then 1 Scanner? Don't they use the KAV6/7 engine?
     
  25. lodore

    lodore Registered Member

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    they use kaspersky engine along with f-secure inhouse engines.
    blacklight is their in house engine for rootkits.
    i cant remember the other engines they use atm but around three different in house engines.
    f-secure has a very decent team and if there is an outbreak they add detection to one of their own engines.
     
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