Mozilla tests Premium VPN Service

Discussion in 'privacy technology' started by guest, Oct 21, 2018.

  1. guest

    guest Guest

    Mozilla tests Premium VPN Service
    October 21, 2018
    https://www.ghacks.net/2018/10/21/mozilla-tests-premium-vpn-service/
     
  2. __Nikopol

    __Nikopol Registered Member

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    Hm. Proton is one of the more expensive ones and privacy wise not the best. :/
     
  3. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    Yeah, I'm not impressed, either :(
     
  4. elapsed

    elapsed Registered Member

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    Two things I never understood: 1) Why people make accusations without providing evidence 2) Why someone would think a cheap VPN is trustworthy.
     
  5. __Nikopol

    __Nikopol Registered Member

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    Last edited: Oct 21, 2018
  6. elapsed

    elapsed Registered Member

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    A random no-name website. Okay, please point to what specific part claims that it is "not the best privacy wise" as that is a very large page.

    I didn't make an accusation. Where have I singled out a company and made a claim against them?

    But anyway, here's some mathematical logic: You can't buy thousands of bare metal high bandwidth tier 1 servers all over the world, spew advertisements everywhere, and still make a profit charging people next to nothing. If you don't find this suspicious you cannot also state that ProtonVPN is "not the best privacy wise" because you either have a selective idea of privacy or are attempting to promote a specific company.
     
  7. __Nikopol

    __Nikopol Registered Member

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    It's in the page I linked. Do your own reading if you really care. But if you don't value the incredibly extensive work he did, use this link: https://restoreprivacy.com/protonvpn-review/
    I will, however, point out that ProtonVPN logs timestamps and leaks.

    Saying that all "cheap" VPNs are not trustworthy is an accusation. Define cheap. (But don't, actually)

    EDIT: Dude... I am ****** and not in the mood for a feelgood conversation. Please excuse. But take it seriously
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2018
  8. Less

    Less Registered Member

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    proton is already very expensive.
    and with this partnership...........
     
  9. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    I know TOPG from reddit, and he seems a honest privacy advocate. As far as I recall, there are no affiliate links on his site.

    Anyway, the main concern with ProtonVPN is their unclear relationship with Tesonet aka Cloud VPN.[0] It seems to operate ProtonVPN and NordVPN, and perhaps others. In other words, it seems that ProtonMail isn't actually running ProtonVPN, but rather rebranding stuff from Tesonet aka Cloud VPN.

    Edit: Also, their lack of full transparency about these issues raises broader questions.

    0) https://www.wilderssecurity.com/threads/anyone-using-protonmail.394862/page-3#post-2768984
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2018
  10. 142395

    142395 Guest

    Don't take the affiliated review (UNlike TOPG) too seriously. It says "contradict their true origins"...seriously? It does NOT contradict at all and everyone who have been watching Proton's track know this from the beginning, it's been no secret and even in his quoted site just above the quote it says:
    (It's before MIT competition, and needless to say launching company needs money. If you work in academic filed, you'd know what "influence" those programs actually have). And he started to doubt connection to NSA while desperately trying to hide Neo-nazi connection to PerfectPrivacy origin.
    Also who informed him about government funding is me, but it seems he took this as a bad sign w/out reading discussion about it done on elsewhere. And he still haven't discarded that VT notion despite I told him how to properly interpret VT & to report FP? All AV vendors in his screenshot had removed the FP, tho Palo Alto now flags installer via generic sig (such thing can always happen for generic sig, everyone who know AV tech will admit) so it's now 1/66. But he should dig deeper about Swedish info request bill, as in a comment he mistakenly used it as a concern for Mullvad. There're some other signs which suggest the reviewer's lack of understanding or research.
    Oh, well, you won't find my comment in his blog as it's deleted (part of it is on Wayback-machine tho. It seems it's not only me whose comments deleted), tho I didn't criticized him like I do here. It seems he somehow interpret my comments which are mostly consisted of facts and sources are unfavorable to the blog, and this is the reason I started to doubt the blog.

    But I admit Proton's app is not yet sophisticated, and it's true they record timestamp forever until next logon, tho whether it's really privacy threat depends. So I hold my opinion about Mozilla's decision undecided until we know more.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 22, 2018
  11. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    @142395 - Oh, I'd forgotten about your upset with TOPS :(

    So maybe he's not so technical. I don't really know.

    But regardless, the uncertainties about ProtonVPN and Tesonet remain. TOPG isn't the only one who raised those issues.

    I see that some of the stuff in the other Wilders thread that I linked is down.

    See https://keybase.pub/mirimir/ for my copies.
     
  12. 142395

    142395 Guest

    @mirimir
    What I criticized is RP, not TOPG who I trust much better (BTW in the conversation RP's Sven questioned the trustworthiness of TOPG, citing his conflicts w/ Air in Air forum which I'd already known well. You know, that shows TOPG's stubbornness but does not affect his honesty). Yes, he didn't understand the risk of IPSec w/ known key, obscurely advertising PP's TrackStop (It's too obvious it blocks more than competitors he "tested" as it uses 20+ publicly available lists w/ their own whitelist, but the fact is it also is FP prone if u browse non-English-and-non-German sites much) and even suggests it can be alternative to browser addons (no, domain-level blocking can't tho it's good as a complement). We also know NeuroRouting is not that worth money & performance down, tho better than nothing. As I haven't read the blog for a while, what I wrote above is an additional question which was not there in his original Proton review except for VT thing.

    Also note, I didn't say Proton is very trustworthy (nor opposite), rather I meant I'll wait until we know more.
     
  13. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    @142395 - Hey, sorry :( I somehow misread your comment. So I thought that you were talking about TOPG. Damn. I must be tired.

    Anyway, for what it's worth, RP clearly relies on affiliate income, and so seems less neutral than TOPG.
     
  14. __Nikopol

    __Nikopol Registered Member

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    Oh, yeah. I forgot Tesonet. There was a nice infographic that I can't find though. Although they, allegedly (By ProtonVPN), are accusation from a smear campaign by Private Internet Access. Though facts are quite clear, IYAM.

    They rent servers from LeaseWeb, Radix, m247, like everyone else. No reason to be super expensive, except their Secure Core stuff, that is very slow.

    Also, by personal experience: ProtonVPN leaks.
     
  15. Beyonder

    Beyonder Registered Member

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    Will probably get this when it reaches Sweden. What are the Swedish servers on ProtonVPN like?
     
  16. 142395

    142395 Guest

    No prob.;)
    Yup, lack of knowledge is not necessarily a big deal (well, seeing
    it seems he even doesn't know who sponsored Tor), but that of fairness & objectivity matters.

    TOPG have given Mullvad a gold medal, but it's only recently after he'd reviewed dozens of VPNs (and anyway it was reader's request) and he doesn't have a massive campaign to push it. OTOH RP reviewed PP in early time and w/ all effort has been pushing it, along w/ a few others.
     
  17. guest

    guest Guest

    Firefox Targeting Competing VPN Sites With ProtonVPN Offer in New Test
    October 23, 2018
    https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/ne...g-vpn-sites-with-protonvpn-offer-in-new-test/
     
  18. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    Wow, just wow. That is disgusting.

    They're basically floating the idea of baking ProtonVPN ads into Firefox!

    One hopes that it will be possible to nuke this Shield extension.

    Edit: I do agree that Firefox ought to promote VPN use. But it'd be far better if they could point users to a list of reputable VPNs. And somehow get some income from it.
     
  19. Minimalist

    Minimalist Registered Member

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    Yes it's possible:

    upload_2018-10-24_21-28-6.png
     
  20. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    Sure, but what if they decide that the study was successful, and add it as a default feature? That's what worries me!

    As I said, it's good for Firefox to promote VPN use. I mean, I promote VPN use :) And upon reflection, I'm not sure that the choice of ProtonVPN is so bad. ProtonMail did have an impressive origin, with good credentials and strong endorsements. But still, the association of ProtonVPN with Tesonet just raises too many flags. Indeed, it raises enough flags to worry me that ProtonMail itself has always been bullshit :eek:

    Also, the fact that ProtonMail demands a mobile number when you register via Tor is not exactly reassuring. They do have an .onion site, I know, which doesn't demand a mobile number :eek: But Facebook behaves exactly the same. And that doesn't speak well for ProtonMail. Either that, or it does speak well for Facebook ;)

    Upon reflection, though, Firefox has been adware for a long time. With their choice of search service. And I gather that their problem now is that no search-service deal are forthcoming, so they need another source of income. But damn, getting nagged about ProtonMail would be hard to take!
     
  21. Rasheed187

    Rasheed187 Registered Member

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    What's not clear to me is if ProtonVPN is going to be baked in into Firefox itself, similar to how Opera offers the VPN. It's kinda handy I have to admit.
     
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