moved c:, vista won't boot, WINLOAD error?

Discussion in 'Acronis Disk Director Suite' started by aoz, Sep 5, 2007.

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  1. aoz

    aoz Registered Member

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    have new toshiba M400
    has TOSHIBA SYSTEM partition (1+ gig), C: (70 gig), and recovery data (4 gig)
    1. deleted recovery, resized c: (shrunkto 35 gig), created d: (35 gig), rebooted, works OK

    THEN, resized toshiba system partition (shrunk it), moved c: up fruther, then tried to reboot, and got ERROR,
    vista would not boot, Winload.exe error

    I do NOT have a vista restore disk (not shipped with machine)

    Reloaded everything with TrueImage 10, back to the
    TOSHIBA SYSTEM - c: d:, and rebooted, and it boots OK

    HOW to
    1. delete or resize the TOSHIBA SYSTEM (it is used for restore, I don't ned it, as I hvae TrueImage)
    2. move c: closer to beginning of drive
    3. resize(make bigger) c:

    ad have it boot OK with vista?

    There seems to be a problem, with booting, if hte c: is moved
    any feedback appreciated.
    Nick
     
  2. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    Since you have restored successfully with TI and can again if necessary, this is what I would try.

    As you don't have a Vista DVD to do a repair, you'll have to see what you can do without triggering this.

    I would try to do the procedures with Vista's Disk Management if possible. It should be able to do the resize (it will have to reboot) and keep the system bootable (Vista should be smart enough to update the BCD file after the partition is resized).

    Otherwise, the easiest solution would be to use a third-party BCD editor to fix the problem.
     
  3. aoz

    aoz Registered Member

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    thanks for reply

    being new to vista (but good with xp), where are the vista disk management features?
    and also what is the BSD?
    I appreciate your assistance
    nick
     
  4. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    Vista Disk Management can be found here: Control Panel->System and Maintenence->Administrative Tools->Computer Management. Then click on Disk Managment in the left side tree (this is like in XP).

    The BCD file is what Vista uses instead of the boot.ini file. It stores the boot information in a binary format. It's the file that needs to be "repaired" when the Vista partition is moved.
     
  5. aoz

    aoz Registered Member

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    ok, will do full backup, then give it a try.

    any idea how to get a vista repair disk? Bart PE method, or any way?

    thanks
    Nick
     
  6. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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  7. aoz

    aoz Registered Member

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    ok, booted with BartPE, but can't see my vista drives; I just see d: (bart), and c: (nothing in it....)
    I've tried otehr drive letters, no luck;
    any feedback appreciated
    Nick
     
  8. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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  9. aoz

    aoz Registered Member

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    Mudcrab,
    I'm lost.
    I will look atthe threads.
    BUT,
    I have BartPE
    WinPE 2.0 (newer version of Windows Preinstall Environment)
    Vista Anytime Upgrade disk.
    For the life of me, I can't get ANY of themn t see my C: drive !!
    The Vista Anytime upgrade, upon booting, comes up tothe question of "Install in what language", and no tools come up.

    the WinPE disk, boots up to an X: drive, in a command line window, but I can't see a c:, d:, etc.

    bart PE comes up to a D: drive (its own)

    why can't I see my c: and D: drive?

    OK, off I go to look at the links, but I think to do anything, I need to be able to see my paritions....
    Nick
     
  10. K0LO

    K0LO Registered Member

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    Nick:

    If you can't see any of your partitions then there is something wrong with your partition table.

    Can you boot into the rescue version of DD and try the "Recover Partitions" operation? This may be able to find the existing partitions and repair the partition table.

    Otherwise, do you still have that good TI10 backup? If you get your disk restored again then could you post a screen shot from DD10 showing the current partition layout? Maybe we can go step by step from there and get things set up the way you want them.
     
  11. aoz

    aoz Registered Member

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    I just did the backup today. TrueImage was able to see partitions with no problem (c:, d:, and toshiba system partition, which is what I want to delete)

    I can boot with disk director and see what happes, will give it a try
    nick
     
  12. aoz

    aoz Registered Member

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    Addendum, I just booted with Disk director, see three partitions

    1. Tohiba system (about 2 gig), primary (wasted space)
    2. c: (primary active ) 35 gig
    3. d: (priamry) 35 g
    4. unallocated (2 gig)

    I want to delete toshiba system, recover c: from backup,move it to beginning of drive
    3. move d: to end of trive
    4. expand c: into unallocated space

    BUT, main step is to
    1. delete toshiba system
    2. recover c:(easier on drive than moving partition)
    3. do repair

    I just don't understand whyI can't see the c: and d: partitions
     
  13. K0LO

    K0LO Registered Member

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    Does the machine, as it exists now, still boot into Vista?
     
  14. aoz

    aoz Registered Member

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    The machine, as it EXISTED, DID boot to vista, no flaws.
    Disk Director saw the C: drive, and was able to drill down into directories.

    SO, after your info about hte Vista Upgrrade disk, I booted with it, saw that it had repair, and decided to ALTER the tablet PC.
    WHAT a mistake.
    I blew away the toshiba system partition, and the c: partition. Then restored c: to beginning of disk.
    Disk director sees the partition; but it won't boot; winload.exe error.

    SO, booted with vista upgrade disk.
    It sees no partition. I clicked next, selected system boot repair;
    it states it could not see a parittion table, and repaired it. that accomplished nothing.
    again, back to disk Director. it still saw the c: ntfs partition, and saw its directories.

    I am totally P- O'ed, both at toshiba, microsoft, and acronis. I did not hve time to really fool with this, at this point.
    So, I am using trueImage now to restore the full disk (MBR, toshiba system, c: and d:), HOPEFULLY to one of the backups that I did this evening PRIOR to starting the attempted partition shifts.

    BUT, there has to be some quirks with how the notebook/tablet has stuff on the hard drive, if Disk Director is able to see it, yet the WinPE, BartPE, and Vista disks can't see it.

    I hope and pray that this boots up after I reload that image.

    MudCrab indicated, in another post this evening, that TI 11 did reload partitions, but I'm hesitant to even try that, until I can see why this does not see the partitions using the supposed recovery disks.

    Could HIBERNATE be an issue? This was NEVER an issue in XP; I had hibernate enabled, did backups, restores, etc, no problem.

    anyway, I'm waiting until that recovery is done, and then going to bed (or throw it out hte window)

    any other feedback, suggestions, etc, qre welcome


    ADDENDUM, RESTORE OF FULL DRIVE NOW HAS SYSTEM BACK UP AND RUNNING, USING THE FULL BACKUP DONE EARLIER.
    OK, LET'S START FROM Scratch, and seee if we can figure out why the drives can't be seen with recovery programs.
    but that wil wait till tomorrow. i'm going to bed
    nick
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2007
  15. aoz

    aoz Registered Member

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    k0lo
    I'm going to try and attach the screen captures of isk Director
    snap2 - DRIVE inf
    snap3 - Toshiba system partition
    snap4 - drive c:


    also, here is ORIGINAL bcdedit info, no edits done

    Microsoft Windows [Version 6.0.6000]
    Copyright (c) 2006 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

    C:\Windows\system32>bcdedit

    Windows Boot Manager
    --------------------
    identifier {bootmgr}
    device unknown
    description Windows Boot Manager
    locale en-US
    inherit {globalsettings}
    default {current}
    resumeobject {14ce746d-5056-11dc-81dc-806e6f6e6963}
    displayorder {current}
    toolsdisplayorder {572bcd56-ffa7-11d9-aae0-0007e994107d}
    {memdiag}
    timeout 30
    customactions 0x1000000720001
    0x54000001
    custom:54000001 {572bcd56-ffa7-11d9-aae0-0007e994107d}

    Windows Boot Loader
    -------------------
    identifier {current}
    device partition=C:
    path \Windows\system32\winload.exe
    description Windows Vista (TM) Business (recovered)
    recoverysequence {572bcd56-ffa7-11d9-aae0-0007e994107d}
    recoveryenabled Yes
    osdevice partition=C:
    systemroot \Windows
    resumeobject {14ce746d-5056-11dc-81dc-806e6f6e6963}

    C:\Windows\system32>
     

    Attached Files:

  16. K0LO

    K0LO Registered Member

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    Nick:

    I can't yet see what is going wrong here. I'm starting to wonder if you have one of those special recovery partitions, like on some Dell PCs, that is linked into the BIOS. I can see from your posted screen shot that the first partition is using some nonstandard geometry so that makes me suspicious.

    Could you next post a screen shot that is similar to the one in this thread (see post #3 in the thread)?
     
  17. aoz

    aoz Registered Member

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    see attached
     

    Attached Files:

  18. K0LO

    K0LO Registered Member

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    Nick:

    Taking it step-by-step, the first thing I'd try is to delete partition #1 ONLY. You could try this in Vista from either Windows Disk Management or from DD10.

    I know you've done this before, but in combination with other changes. In order to isolate things as much as possible I'd just do this first step and only this step. Afterwards try rebooting into Vista and see if everything still works.

    If it does then that rules out any possible interaction that the system BIOS has with the recovery partition.

    Speaking of interaction, my ThinkPad tablet PC has a special setting in the BIOS to protect the recovery partition. You have to go in and change the setting before you are able to delete the recovery partition. Does your Toshiba tablet have a similar BIOS setting?
     
  19. aoz

    aoz Registered Member

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    I will try that later this evening, after another backup. I will first extend the c: partitino to fill the unallocated space.

    re: bios, no protection. Actually, that FIRST partition is not recovery; it is the partitnio that allows booting to play CD's, DVD's, without having to get to windows.

    The RECOVERY partition was at the END of the drive; I had already deleted that with success, in the first week of having the machine.

    Toshiba recovery (if done per their recovery disks) has options to re-install (cleanly) the c: partition WITHOUT all the other partitions, so it should be able to be done through normal methods also.

    Again, I'll post miore later, but won't work on it today any more.

    thanks
    Nick
     
  20. K0LO

    K0LO Registered Member

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    Nick:

    Please DON'T do that. One thing at a time if you don't mind. Just delete the first (media) partition. Don't mess with the Vista partition yet or we may just confuse the issue.
     
  21. aoz

    aoz Registered Member

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    oooopppss :)
    actually did it already.
    did it through control panel, disk management; extended partition of c:,it did work, rebooted ok, programs seem to be working.
    whew....

    I will do full back up tonight, probably, and then do just delete of the toshiba system partition, then try reboot.

    again, thanks for your help with this.
    I do love testing stuff,but I hate testing with my tablet PC, as I need this every day for work. I hate when it is down.

    Nick
     
  22. K0LO

    K0LO Registered Member

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    Nick:

    I know what you mean about your tablet; I teach all of my classes with mine and would hate to have something happen to it. Thankfully, TrueImage works perfectly on it so I can sometimes experiment with abandon.

    Here is what I'm thinking is going on. Your first partition seems to be set up with the Vista offset of 2048 bytes and thus ends on a "non-standard" alignment boundary. The use of older partitioning tools on this may result in in the tool deleting a portion of the beginning of your Windows Vista partition. Windows XP Disk Management will destroy a layout like this and I suspect that DD10 will also (I haven't proven this yet; just a hunch). So here is what I had thought of having you try.

    1. Using Vista's Disk Management console, delete the Toshiba Media partition.
    2. Reboot to confirm that Vista still works.
    3. Back in Vista, make the modifications to the BCD file to allow the partition to be moved later without needing to be repaired. From an elevated command prompt do:
    Code:
    bcdedit /set {default} device boot <ENTER>
    bcdedit /set {default} osdevice boot <ENTER>
    bcdedit /set {bootmgr} device boot <ENTER>
    4. Reboot to confirm that Vista still works.
    5. Boot from the DD Rescue CD and move the Vista partition to the start of the drive. I suggest doing it this way instead of trying to restore using TI. I say this because of TI10's habit of restoring to the wrong slot in the partition table. You currently have Vista in the second slot of the table and it's likely to end up there again if you restore with TI. Let's try to force it to the first slot by moving the partition with DD.
    6. Reboot and if you're lucky, Vista will boot right up.
    7. From there, back into DD in Vista and make your other changes.
    8. Finally, create an image of this layout. You should be able to restore this image or any portion of it with impunity.
     
  23. cortez

    cortez Registered Member

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    LINKED to the BIOS, Wow! A definite need-to-know piece of info before making the decision of getting any new machine. I guess extra digging is a must these days as many new machines come with restore partitions of one sort or another and many without any OS disc at all.

    These machines and their ability to operate with DD10 and TI10 may only become more difficult. Hopefully not, as I am now tempted to get a Vista Ultimate capable machine. Perhaps in the end I will need to get full retail boxed versions as I have been "forced" to do with XP Home and Pro editions.

    A good "Heads-UP" for new buyers.
     
  24. K0LO

    K0LO Registered Member

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    Cortez:
    Yes; check out the Dell thread in the TI forum "stickies" for some of the special considerations needed when repartitioning a Dell laptop with the special Media Direct partition.
     
  25. aoz

    aoz Registered Member

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    k0lo,
    thanks for reply.
    re: the bcdedit changes -
    did you see my original bcdedit info, and are those extra lines important, or wil the changes that are suggested just alter the specific lines, and not mess with the other settings?


    RE: TI10 , restoring to different sector id -
    I saw mustang's or mudcrab's entry in another thread, about TI11 restoring OK, BUT STILL altering the address (whichis what we don't want) Is TI11 improved on this, or still glitchy?

    I'll print this out and do incremental experimenting.
    nick
     
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