Mouse doesn't work during restore!

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by TI-Newbie, Apr 3, 2005.

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  1. TI-Newbie

    TI-Newbie Guest

    I am currently evaluating TI8 (build 800) as my primary app for emergency recovery. I was able to create an image without any trouble, but when I attempt to restore it using the Recovery CD, my mouse doesn't work and using the keyboard is far from straight-forward!

    A search of this forum uncovered a some others who are experiencing the same issue. Is Acronis aware of this problem?

    Windows XP Pro (SP2)
    MS Explorer Mouse (wired to PS/2 connector)
    WD360-SATA on Promise 378TX controller
    WD1600-ATA (for storing images) on Intel controller
     
  2. Stuck!

    Stuck! Guest

    I also had this happen using the TI Bootup CD... Is there a 'trick' to enabling the mouse with the Bootup CD?
     
  3. como

    como Registered Member

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    See this previous thread and email support with the infomation requested by Ilya
     
  4. mark7

    mark7 Registered Member

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    Try plugging your MS Explorer mouse into a USB port (if you have one available) instead of using the PS/2 adapter for it... this "fixed" my mouse boot issue.
     
  5. TI-Newbie

    TI-Newbie Guest

    Mark, I just tried that and it 'sort-of' works - that is, sometimes it responded and at other times it didn't!
     
  6. mark7

    mark7 Registered Member

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    I think there may have been issues with USB hubs/other devices concurrently plugged into USB along with mouse... I don't recall exactly... perhaps you might try plugging in only the mouse and plug directly into computer USB port?

    Just a thought, my mouse is the only thing I have on my USB.
     
  7. mareke

    mareke Registered Member

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    I've had similar problems with mice not working when using the boot CD. Yesterday I found that Acronis TI 8.0 build 800 would not write a boot CD repeatedly giving me a blue screen and the message IRQ not equal or less so I decided to restore an image using a boot CD I had already made to get the computer back to an earlier state when I did not have this problem.

    Unfortunately the drive the image was on had been used to help another person with problems on his computer and when I re-hooked it back up to my computer Acronis seemed to want to call this drive C drive because it had a main boot record on it and wanted to restore the image to a drive labelled F! When in desperation to restore the image I clicked Proceed, Acronis froze.

    To put a long story short I formatted my main drive, installed Windows XP and then transferred the image I had not been able to restore to my main drive and formatted the second drive to get rid of the main boot record on it and then transferred the image back to it and then used the boot CD again to try to restore the image hoping that the problems I had previously encountered were gone.

    Thankfully this was the case and now Acronis was willing to restore the image and call the drive C but instead of the usual 5 minutes for the restore as it has been in the past it reported that the restore would take 3 hours. Then I discovered that the mouse cursor had disappeared during the restore process and the restore would only happen if I moved the mouse! I had to continually move the mouse for 3 hours to restore the image as each time I stopped Acronis would stop restoring the image!

    I eventually got the image restored but I don't want to go through this again! I was using a Logitech cordless MX 1000 laser mouse when the cursor disappeared. Moving this mouse proved useless so I tried switching back to using my earlier model Logitech MX 700 cordless mouse which is detected by the same receiver as used for the MX 1000 laser mouse. Thankfully I got my cursor back but only for a few moments and then I discovered if I moved the mouse the restore process continued.

    I tried attaching a corded mouse while in the boot CD environment but it was not seen at all. Maybe if I had rebooted and tried to restore the image using a corded mouse I would not have had to jiggle the mouse but once the restore process had begun I decided to soldier on as I was afraid if I rebooted in the middle of it I may not get another chance to restore the image which had a lot of things on it that were important to me.

    I first reported problems with a mouse when using the boot CD some time back. I discovered that if I installed the Logitech mouse software the problem went away even though doing this should in theory have not helped since the computer was not in Windows when in the boot CD environment.

    I have learned from this experience that mouse problems still exist. I had updated to build 800 of True Image and I hope the 3 hour restore time was only because I had moved the image a few times and done various things that might have upset the normal quick and smooth operation of Acronis otherwise build 800 is not an improvement as I have restored images quite a few times with earlier builds and have been amazed that they only took 5 minutes or so.

    Going on past experience I don't think that the mouse problem would have occured if I had the Logitech Mouseware software installed even though the boot CD is not used within Windows. I can only guess that the Logitech software installs some Linux environment mouse drivers or at least the software must include something that allows the mouse to be recognised and function properly in a non Windows environment. I had forgotten about this problem and had not installed the Logitech Mouseware software before using the boot CD and it was too late once the restore had begun because I would have found that the Windows XP installation would have been wiped if I had tried to go back to it by cancelling the restore part the way through so I was stuck.

    In the end I'm glad I got my image restored but I hope after I make a new one that if I ever need to restore it I don't have to go through what I have just experienced to get an image restored!
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2005
  8. MiniMax

    MiniMax Registered Member

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    mareke - I am glad to hear that you got your system back up again, even if your arms are completely numb :)

    But despite your past experience, there is NO WAY a Logitech driver installed in the Windows environment can have ANY impact on how the Rescue CD (mis)behaves when restoring an image.
     
  9. mareke

    mareke Registered Member

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    In theory you are correct MiniMax but in practice I have found that if I install the Logitech Mouseware I do not lose the cursor and the mouse works properly when I use the Acronis boot CD but if I forget to install the Logitech software that came with my Logitech mouse and rely on Windows to manage the cordless mouse then when I use the boot CD I lose the mouse cursor and have no mouse at all when using the Logitech MX 1000 laser mouse (I suspect this might be partly because it quickly switches itself off to conserve power when there is no mouse movement) and I have limited mouse function with the MX 700 Logitech mouse by continually moving it.

    I have in the past uninstalled the Logitech Mouseware and used the Acronis CD to check this and when I have done this I lose the mouse functions and then when I reinstalled the Logitech Mouseware and again used the Acronis boot CD the mouse functions returned. As you indicated MiniMax in theory this should not happen but it does happen in practice and I do what works even if theory says it shouldn't.

    I once suggested to a person on this forum that complained that he had no mouse function when using the Acronis boot CD that even though he did not have a Logitech mouse he might get his mouse to function in the boot CD environment if he installed the Logitech Mouseware program anyway as it still recognises and works with a non-Logitech mouse and he would not do this because the theory said that it shouldn't work. However it does work even though theory indicates it shouldn't and if something works when theory says it should not then as far as I'm concerned the sensible thing to do is choose what works. Others stick with theory and won't try it.

    When I tried to restore the image and had all the trouble that I described I had not installed the Logitech Mouseware program in Windows and so lost mouse function almost immediately I was in the Acronis boot CD environment. I had mouse function with my MX 1000 laser mouse for just a few seconds but the MX 1000 switches itself off the moment you stop moving it and when it does this you lose mouse function and can’t get it back as moving it again does no good.

    Attaching the previous model Logitech MX 700 got slightly better results as I was able to use the mouse until the restore process began and then the cursor disappeared (presumably because it too switches itself to some sort of reduced power mode when not being used) and I could not get the cursor to return but I discovered that every time I moved the mouse the restore process continued and when I stopped moving the mouse the restore process stopped!

    In fact the more vigorously I moved the mouse the faster the restore process seemed to proceed as evidenced by a brighter hard disk activity light and louder hard disk noise if I moved the mouse vigorously!

    I have restored quite a few images with both these mice when I have had the Mouseware software installed in Windows XP and both mice have worked perfectly for all my restores. When I first started using the Acronis program I was not in the habit of installing the Logitech Mouseware program and I was never able to have proper mouse function when using the Acronis boot CD leading to some frustrating occasions when I cursed Acronis for not working and my having to format instead of being able to restore. Then I discovered that I only had to install the Logitech Mouseware program in Windows and I had proper mouse function when using the Acronis boot CD. Strange but true.
     
  10. Menorcaman

    Menorcaman Retired Moderator

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    A bit off the wall but could it be that Logitech's Mouseware is sending some sort of micro code to an EEPROM in either the remote transmitter or the mouse? That code would then remain in the EEPROM even after booting into the Linux based rescue mode. Granted it's a bit unusual but it's worth thinking about.

    Regards
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2005
  11. MiniMax

    MiniMax Registered Member

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    mareke, I too believe that practice trumps theory every time :) But surely there must be a logical explanation to your findings.

    Perhaps Menorcaman is on to something? What would happen if you physically disconnected the transmitter from the computer, removed the battery from the mouse, carried it all into your neighbours flats, and THEN un-installed the Logitech software? That way, whatever the software might have programmed into the mouse/transmitter would still be there, right?

    Power down, attach the transmitter and mouse, and reboot with the TI CD-ROM. If TI now works without you constantly wiggling the mouse, then the Logitech software must leave remnants/settings in the hardware that affects TI, or?

    I will leave it 100% up to you to decide if you want to go through all this hazzle....
     
  12. Acronis Support

    Acronis Support Acronis Support Staff

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    Hello all,

    Thank you for choosing Acronis Emergency Recovery Software.

    If you experience the problem described above please send a letter with the full model name of your mouse, motherboard and the type of the mouse (USB or PS/2) to support@acronis.com along with the link to this thread? Also please create the sysinfo.txt file in the way described at https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=55317 and send to us with the letter. We will investigate the problem and provide you with the possible workaround.

    Thank you.
    --
    Ilya Toytman
     
  13. mareke

    mareke Registered Member

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    Today I restored an image which did not contain the Logitech Mouse software. This image replaced a Windows XP installation that had contained the Logitech software so if the Mouse was somehow programmed the way Menorcaman suggested it would have still contained the micro code in the EEPROM and I should have had proper mouse function when using the Acronis CD but when I rebooted using the Acronis CD I did not have proper mouse function.

    I then booted into Windows and installed the Logitech mouse software and again tried the Acronis boot CD and just as has happened in the past I had full mouse function and I then restored back the first Windows XP image that contained the Logitech mouse software and which I am currently working in.

    Could the Logitech mouse software write instructions into the main boot record which remain after Acronis wipes the main partition prior to installing a new image and so the instructions to operate the mouse continue to be carried out? If Acronis changes the main boot record maybe it does it as a last step of restoring an image and so the mouse instructions work through the restore. I don’t know if this is possible. Another possibility is that the Logitech mouse software somehow reserves a tiny portion of the computer’s memory by creating a tiny ram disk to store the instructions in.

    However it is achieved I have proved over and over again that I gain normal mouse function in the boot CD state only if I install the Logitech mouse software in Windows and this mouse function remains outside of Windows. It may be possible that anyone that loses mouse function in the Acronis boot CD state might be able to get it back by installing the Logitech mouse software regardless of the type of mouse used but this would only be the case if the mouse instructions are in some part of the computer (and not the transmitter or mouse itself) that is not wiped as Acronis does a restore.

    Since I’m not actually experiencing any problems there isn’t any reason to send information to Acronis unless the Acronis programmers want to figure out how Logitech achieve the described feat.
     
  14. beenthereb4

    beenthereb4 Registered Member

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    An interesting test would be to put the boot CD in the computer, turn the computer off (pull the power cord), then disconnect the mouse receiver for a few minutes. Plug the mouse receiver back in and start the computer. It should boot from the CD and I predict the mouse will not work. I suggest that the receiver is given a message from within Windows (initialized by the Logitech software) to remain active and will do so until loss of power. I would further suggest that the Logitech software trick will only work with a Logitech mouse.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2005
  15. mareke

    mareke Registered Member

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    I tried what you suggested beenthereb4. I put the Acronis boot CD in the CD rom, turned the computer off, removed the Logitech transmitter, turned the MX 1000 Laser mouse off by using a switch at the bottom off the mouse (the battery in the mouse has to be removed by Logitech), removed the power cord from the computer and left it disconnected for around a half an hour.

    Your prediction turned out to be incorrect as there was still proper mouse function when using the Acronis boot CD indicating that mouse function is controlled by the computer outside of Windows perhaps from within the small partition that contains the main boot record.
     
  16. beenthereb4

    beenthereb4 Registered Member

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    Hmmm, well it's quite a mystery. Those of us who know computers well "know" that Windows drivers cannot remain active or perform any function outside of Windows. I use quotes because your anecdotal evidence suggests otherwise. For myself, I would have to "see it to believe it". Nothing personal intended. The best part is: your mouse works!
     
  17. MiniMax

    MiniMax Registered Member

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    I agree with beenthereb4 - it is quite perplexing and mysterious what you experiencing. If you get to the bottom of it, I am sure a Nobel prize is looming :)

    Does not compute. If the BIOS boots from the CD-ROM, then the boot record on the hard disk should not be read at all.

    Depending on your BIOS, you might be able to check if Logitech writes to the boot record. Some BIOS'es can be configured to block writing to boot record, and to throw up a warning if a virus (or in this case Logitech) is up to something bad.
     
  18. mareke

    mareke Registered Member

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    I just tried a different Logitech cordless mouse which is an earlier model that uses a completely different transmitter which has not been used with the Logitech software and there was still full mouse function when using the Acronis CD. This confirms that the Logitech software does not write instructions to the transmitter and that mouse function is controlled from within the computer while it is outside of Windows courtesy of the Logitech mouse software installed in Windows.

    It suggests that anyone that does not have proper mouse function when using the Acronis CD might be able to get it by taking up my suggestion (which has been rejected by a few people posting on the forums because it is 'theoretically impossible') by installing the Logitech mouse software (probably Logitech Mouseware would be best to use rather than SetPoint which is used with the latest MX 1000 laser mouse NB: both are free downloads from Logitech) regardless of wether you use a Logitech mouse or a non Logitech mouse and regardless of wether it is a corded or cordless mouse. It is certainly worth a try if your mouse refuses to work properly when using the Acronis boot CD.

    When I use the Acronis boot CD I note that there is a small part of C drive of around 7 MB (this is probably the main boot record partition) that is described as ‘unallocated’ by the Acronis boot CD and perhaps the instructions are there or perhaps the Logitech software somehow utilises memory to control mouse function outside of Windows.

    I guess it will have to remain a mystery as to how the Logitech achieves the feat of controlling the mouse from outside of Windows but somehow it does exactly this because as soon as I uninstall the Logitech software in Windows I lose proper mouse function outside of Windows when using the Acronis boot CD (I have confirmed this numerous times now). Anyone that still wants to suggest that it in theory it is impossible that the Logitech software installed within Windows controls proper mouse function outside of Windows when using the Acronis boot CD needs to realise that something is wrong with their theory as practice proves that is possible.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2005
  19. jmk94903

    jmk94903 Registered Member

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    Hmmm... it seems to me that a far more reliable and simple solution would be to plug a good old standard PS/2 mouse in before booting from the TrueImage recovery CD. It's not as elegant as having a cordless mouse, but it's a guaranteed working mouse that can be removed after the restore is complete.
     
  20. mareke

    mareke Registered Member

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    Some people have reported that their corded mice have not worked when using the Acronis boot CD. My suggestion was aimed at them.

    You are correct that I could avoid any hassles by attaching an ordinary corded mouse if I didn't want to use the Logitech software.
     
  21. Logitech Mouseware doesn't solve missing mouse function...

    Hi guys,

    Well that settles the matter for me - it didn't work...

    I have a USB Microsoft Cordless Optical Mouse (and MS cordless keyboard) - the mouse doesn't show up in Standalone (Full) - although the keyboard works fine...

    I reluctantly downloaded and installed Logitech Mouseware v.9.79, configured it and rebooted - no cigar: the mouse still does not work (keyboard works as before)

    My surprise is that there doesn't seem to be any general posted solution from Acronis anywhere in the forums - guess I'll have to log a ticket and get my secret answer via email...

    thanks for all the info and the lively debate, but as I suspected (and some other sensible posters here have stated) - a driver installed on Windows cannot (and must not) affect the system outside of Windows...
     
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