Maximum Backups does not work in TI-10

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by mbsolomon, Oct 30, 2006.

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  1. mbsolomon

    mbsolomon Registered Member

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    Even though the maximum number of incremental backups is set to a number, say 4, TI-10 will continue to perform additional incremental backups without limit, never consolidating and never performing a new full backup. I can only assume that this is a bug in 10.
     
  2. shieber

    shieber Registered Member

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    Try reading through this thread.

    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=151970&highlight=Managed Directory Limits Problem

    It might be that you are selecting the destination from the wrong place on the tree, which is unlikely since you seem to have gotten the Backup Policy screen, OR it could be the problem with residuals from previous installs of other versions of ATI that must be deleted.



    Hope that helps,
    sh

     
  3. mbsolomon

    mbsolomon Registered Member

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    I am backing up in the proper directory. The directory has a file named
    acronis_backup_place.cfg

    That file contains the three limit counts including the maximum number of backups, max disk space and number of days.
    There is clearly a bug in Acronis 10 that will not trigger a new full backup no matter how many incremental backups occur.
     
  4. shieber

    shieber Registered Member

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    It's not a matter of selecting the right direcdtory so much as where you select it from. In the window that shows the directory tree, the directory, let'scall it your directory will shouw up under it's parent drive, let's say C so it shows up C:
    yourdirectory

    But it also shows up under
    Backup Locations
    your directory

    You have to select the backup destination from under Backup Locations or the limits won't work.

    The only other published issue regarding limits failing is the one for which I had a fix with the triple scrub

    see:
    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=151970&highlight=shieber
     
  5. mbsolomon

    mbsolomon Registered Member

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    Certainly I am backing up to the backup location and not the source. In the backup location directory, there is a file called:
    acronis_backup_cfg
    This file contains the maximum number of backups, maximum storage and maximum number of days. Only the backup location has this file.

    Aconis 10 simply contains a serious bug.
     
  6. _Kento_

    _Kento_ Registered Member

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    mbsolomon,

    sheiber said that the Backup Location should be selected the way described in this post. It is the same directory but to take advantage of Backup Location limitations it should be selected this way. Did you select it this way?

    I just made a test with both scheduled task and manual backup and in both cases, the limitations work as desired. So it is not a bug since it works at least for me and sheiber.

    If you could explain ALL the steps you performed we could probably find a reason for this problem.

    _Kento_
     
  7. CatFan432

    CatFan432 Registered Member

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    mbsolomon,

    You may have gone down the same route I did, until I got it straight. This is step by step what I did to set mine up. Of course your choices on options may be different.

    I create and configure a Backup Location thusly:
    • On the main screen, I select "Create and configure a Backup Location"
    • I select "Create Backup Location"
    • On the welcome screen I click "Next"
    • I select the folder for my backup location, in this case a partition on a second hard drive, then click "Next"
    • I uncheck "Location size quota"
    • I select "3" for "maximum number of backups"
    • I uncheck "storage period limits" and then click "Next"
    • On the next screen, I click "Proceed"
    • I click "OK" in "Operation completed sucessfully"

    Then, to set up my backup job, I do the following:
    • I select "Tasks" from the main screen
    • I click "Create" and then click "Next" on the welcome screen that pops up
    • I select "My Computer" and click "Next"
    • I select "Drive C" and click "Next"
    • I select the folder I set up under "Backup Locations", it tells me "no name is required in this location" and I click "Next" (If I don’t see the “no name is required in this location”, I know I’m in the wrong place.)
    • I select "Create Incremental Backups"
    • I Check “Create a New full backup after (I select 5) incremental backups” and click “Next”
    • I enter no password on the next screen and click “Next”
    • I select "Set the Options Manually" and click "Next"
    • I select "Additional Settings" then select " Validate backup archive upon its creation completion" the click "Next" (Note that this will validate all the files in the folder, every time)
    • I enter nothing in the comments screen, just click "Next"
    • I select "Do not start automatically" then click "Next
    • I click "Finish" and assign a name to my backup job, "Drive C Image"

    Your image file names should be in this basic format: 2006_11_03_14_18_43_453D.TIB

    Hope this helps.

    CatFan
     
  8. popechild

    popechild Registered Member

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    I am having the same problem.

    I create a Backup location with the limitation of 2 maximum backups at a time.

    Then I create a scheduled task to do a Differential Backup (without checking "create a new full backup..."). I point it to the Backup Location (the way that you're supposed to in the tree, NOT directly to the folder as some people are not understanding.) It gives me the "name not needed" in the file name field, as it should.

    I run the task and it creates a full backup (as it should).
    I run the task again and it creates a small, differential backup (as it should).

    Now it should replace the full backup with a new one since I don't allow more than 2 backups in that Backup Location, right?

    Well, when I run it again, it creates a 2nd small different backup, AND then creates another full-sized backup (so I have 4 files, the first full, 2 small differentials, and another full) after running the task the third time.

    Nothing gets removed.
     
  9. popechild

    popechild Registered Member

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    UPDATE:

    Also tried doing simple "Full Backups" instead of diffs, in case there was some confusion coming into play because of those. Short story - same result.

    Scheduled Full Backup Task run manually three times in a row into a Backup Location with policy set to allow only 2 backups never removes anything. After running the task three times, I'm left with 3 full backups in the directory.

    Only because I can't think of anything else, here are a few longshot ideas:

    1) My Backup Location is a mapped drive off a NAS storage machine running a variant of Linux (Naslite). Problem here?

    2) I'm in the trial period of the program (ATI 10). Obviously, I want to confirm that this fairly critical capability is going to work, which is why I'm trying it now before buying. Any reason this would be a limitation of the trial?

    3) I'm running the task manually back to back to back instead of waiting a day between each run. I'm doing this because I don't have the luxury of the time required to do 1 step per day tests while I'm testing it out during the trial. Can't see a reason this should cause a problem, but another thing I thought I'd throw out there.

    Other than that, I can't imagine anything I could be doing wrong on my end, but you guys are certainly seeing this work correctly for you, so I'm hoping somebody somewhere's got an idea of what's going wrong for those of us that aren't getting it to work correctly.

    Thanks!
     
  10. popechild

    popechild Registered Member

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    Maybe if I can ask a quesiton about something you said it could shed some light (at least a little) on if I'm not understanding something. You say you set it up with a maximum backups policy of 3, but you're only creating a new full backup every 5 days with your task. What's happening each day that it runs for you? For example:
    Day 1: Full backup
    Day 2: Incremental backup
    Day 3: Incremental backup
    Day 4: ?? Should be new incremental, but your policy limits you to 3 - what happens at this point?

    This MIGHT help me figure out where I'm going wrong, although I can't imagine how I could be getting confused when doing only Full Backups and still seeing more than the policy is supposed to allow...
     
  11. shieber

    shieber Registered Member

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    I think it's allowing 2 full backups along with the associated diffs or incs and the diffs or incs are based on the number you allowed when you set up the managed directory. Doing another run should delete one of the fulls leaving one old and the new, 3rd, one.

    sh

     
  12. CatFan432

    CatFan432 Registered Member

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    Popechild,

    I set up a small partition in order to test quickly, and I can’t duplicate the behavior you’re seeing. The number of backups I tell it to keep in “Create Backup Location” is what it is keeping, whether they are Full, Incremental, or Differential. (Just an aside, and only my opinion, I test all three methods, but the only one I have full confidence in is a Full backup. This is not an ATI issue, full backups are the method I prefer regardless of the program. )

    On your longshot ideas, I can’t speak to the first, I have no expertise in that area. Number three isn’t it, as I sat here and ran the task over and over and got the results I expected. As you’re on a trial and not registered, I’ll try emailing ATI support and see if they will tell if that’s a limitation in the trial version.

    You might try deleting the Backup Location in question, and recreating it, maybe the Config file is bad.

    One more thought. I had a problem editing the Backup Locations, I reinstalled the program and the problem went away.

    CatFan
     
  13. popechild

    popechild Registered Member

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    Thanks for the quick help guys. I'd love to try to get this resolved asap so I can feel comfortable with going ahead and purchasing the license.

    Shieber: Are you saying that if I setup incs or diffs with an option to "create a new full" after say 3 incs or diffs, and my Backup Location only allowed 2, I would get the following:

    Day 1: Full Backup 1
    Day 2: Inc 1 (on Full 1)
    Day 3: Inc 2 (on Full 1)
    Day 4: Inc 3 (on Full 1)
    Day 5: Full Backup 2
    Day 6: Inc 1 (on Full 2)
    Day 7: Inc 2 (on Full 2)
    Day 8: Inc 3 (on Full 2)
    ** Day 9: Full Backup 3
    - Full Backup 1 and all of it's incs would be deleted here?

    So only the Full Backups (which are made how ever often I specify in the Task rules) count toward the policy limit?

    Either way, it doesn't seem to work that way for me right now, but it's helpful to know exactly how it's supposed to work.

    CatFan432: I have tried deleting and recreating the Backup Location, which hasn't helped. I guess I could try a Backup Location on another windows shared drive instead of Linux. I don't have enough room locally to try a local windows drive.

    I'll also try uninstalling-reinstalling to see if that'll do anything as you suggested.
     
  14. popechild

    popechild Registered Member

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    Here's an idea:
    Can someone check out the contents of the attached config file that is located in my Backup Location to see if for some reason the policy is not setting itself up correctly?

    (I changed it from .cfg to .log to attach. Contents are the same in a text editor.)

    Thanks!
     

    Attached Files:

  15. CatFan432

    CatFan432 Registered Member

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    popechild,

    popechild,

    This is not what I'm seeing when I tested it, altho it is what I expected:

    Day 1: Full Backup 1
    Day 2: Inc 1 (on Full 1)
    Day 3: Inc 2 (on Full 1)
    Day 4: Inc 3 (on Full 1)
    Day 5: Full Backup 2
    Day 6: Inc 1 (on Full 2)
    Day 7: Inc 2 (on Full 2)
    Day 8: Inc 3 (on Full 2)
    ** Day 9: Full Backup 3

    Let me run my test again, with Backup Location set to keep 3, and the Task set for a full with 3 incrementals, which looks like the example you have here,and I'll report back soon.

    CatFan
     
  16. CatFan432

    CatFan432 Registered Member

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    popechild,

    Backups allowed on backup location = 3
    Task = Incremental, create new full after 3 incrementals

    This is what I get, showing the three digit ID number assigned at the end of the long file name, and the D code for incremental number:

    Day----Files in Backup Location
    1----384D
    2----384D, 384D2
    3----384D, 384D2, 384D3
    4----384D, 384D2, 384D3 (384D4 shows on explorer screen, then disappears)
    5----618D, 384D, 384D2
    6----618D, 618D2, 384D
    7----618D, 618D2, 618D3
    8----618D, 618D2, 618D3 (618D4 shows on explorer screen, then disappears)
    9----415D, 618D, 618D2
    10---415D, 415D2, 618D

    Well, gosh darn.
    I can see what it is doing here, without understanding. What happens to the data in the D2s, D3s, and D4s as they are dropped? Are they merged into the full somehow? Looking at this, my first move would be to change the backups allowed to 12, to accommodate 3 Full with 3 incrementals each, so nothing gets dropped, until I know for sure what’s going on.

    Besides, if I read your post correctly, your setup is keeping more files than this behavior would indicate it should. I'm not being any help at all, just throwing fuel on the fire.

    I’m going to email this scenario to Acronis, see what they say. Maybe Acronis will read this and weigh in.

    CatFan
     
  17. popechild

    popechild Registered Member

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    Interesting. It looks like the limit policy is capping the number of backup files, regardless of whether or not they're full or incs. That's not completely surprising, but it does make me wonder if they "merge" the previous incs into the previous fulls before removing them, especially considering that they're removing the *latest* incs, NOT the earliest ones. Either way, at least what you're seeing IS the backup policy actually limiting the number of backups stored in that location.

    I don't ever see it remove anything at all, regardless of what kind of backup or how often I run it...

    :'(

    Would you mind posting your config file so I can see if it looks like mine?
     
  18. CatFan432

    CatFan432 Registered Member

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    popechild,

    Here's my config file for that Backup Location:

    <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" ?>
    <backup_place_cfg>
    <limit_list>
    <k_FD46E75F-A87A-4526-AA84-BAB9D41A5C2D slice_count="3" type="2">
    <action_list />
    </k_FD46E75F-A87A-4526-AA84-BAB9D41A5C2D>
    </limit_list>
    </backup_place_cfg>
     
  19. popechild

    popechild Registered Member

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    Hmm... no difference there.
     
  20. LakeFront

    LakeFront Registered Member

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    hi:
    i have the same issue. i didn't upgrade, i purchased version 10 ( no issue with uninstalling prior version etc.. )
    i was testing my backup config scenario on my nas drive and configured an acronis backup location for a max of 2 backups, i.e., 1 full + 1 differential. so what i expected to see was 1 full + 1 diff; but instead i have 1 full + 2 diffs and it seems as though my diff count will continue to climb. i followed all the documented steps... but it's not obvious what i'm doing wrong

    cheers...
    LakeFront...
     
  21. CatFan432

    CatFan432 Registered Member

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    popechild,

    I'm at a loss, at this point. I've sent the scenario above to Acronis, requesting clarification, they have always replied in the past, sometimes takes a few days. If you think of anything else, please let me know.

    CatFan
     
  22. CatFan432

    CatFan432 Registered Member

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    popechild,

    You may have tried this. You might set up a Backup Location on your internal HD, and set up a task that just backs up a very small amount of data, and see what you get. ATI 10 will let you set up multiple Backup Locations, different limits for each one.

    CatFan
     
  23. popechild

    popechild Registered Member

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    CatFan,
    I created a smaller backup so I could do some quicker tests and started trying it on a networked Windows drive. I *thought* it was going to work, but then all of a sudden it "quit." Here's what I mean:

    Set Backup Location to keep 3.
    Task is set to incs, do 5 incs then new Full.

    Day Files in Backup Location
    1. 070F
    2. 070F, 070F2 (1 inc)
    3. 070F, 070F2, 070F3 (2 incs)
    4. 070F, 070F2, 070F3 (3 incs) (*** IT CONSOLIDATED ONE TO KEEP THE TOTAL FILES AT 3! SUCCESS!! ***)
    5. 070F, 070F2, 070F3 (4 incs) (*** CONSOLIDATED AGAIN. GOOD! ***)
    6. 070F, 070F2, 070F3 (5 incs) (*** STILL GOOD. NOW IT SHOULD DO ANOTHER FULL BACKUP ***)
    7. 070F, 070F2, 523F (new Full) (*** SO FAR SO GOOD! ***)
    8. 070F, 523F, 532F2 (first inc on new full) (*** CONSOLIDATED LAST 070F. GOOD. ***)
    9. 070F, 523F, 532F2, 532F3 (*** UH OH. IT'S NOT CONSOLIDATING ANY OF THE NEW 532F Backups. ***)
    9. 070F, 523F, 532F2, 532F3, 523F4
    10. 070F, 523F, 532F2, 532F3, 523F4, 523F5
    11. 070F, 523F, 532F2, 532F3, 523F4, 523F5, 523F6 (*** WE'RE AT WAAAYYY MORE THAN THE MAX 3 THE BACKUP LOCATION SHOULD HAVE. ***)
    12. 070F, 523F, 532F2, 532F3, 523F4, 523F5, 5236, 382F (*** NOW IT'S CREATING A NEW FULL AGAIN AND STILL NO LONGER CONSOLIDATING ANYTHING. ***)

    Does anyone have any idea what's going on hereo_O
     
  24. popechild

    popechild Registered Member

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    Finally got a little further on this...

    I CAN succesfully limit the number of backups on local drives. It is ONLY on my networked drives that I cannot. I also finally realized that there's a log and checked it. Here's what the log says on the 4th backup to a Location that should only allow 3:

    Check for 'number of backups' rule violation is started. Set number:3

    'Number of backups' rule violation is detected. Maximum allowed:3
    Current number:4

    There is no action available to take against the limit violation. Limit rule: by backup count. By default, the 'delete' action will be used.

    Trying to fix limit violation: by backup count.

    Deletion is started. Rule:by backup count
    Number of backup will be deleted:1

    Backup deletion
    Location:atis:network? file://htpc\e\BackupTest\
    Number of backups:
    1

    Error: Archive is invalid or its type is unsupported.

    Error: Archive is invalid or its type is unsupported.

    Operation has succeeded.

    ******************

    So it IS seeing the rule and confirming that it needs to delete the files. But then it has an error when it tries to delete them. Does this help point to a solution at all?
     
  25. popechild

    popechild Registered Member

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    SUCCESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111 :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

    This definitely appears to be a bug in TI-10.

    I finally got it to work by (in Windows) "mapping" a networked drive so that it shows up with a local drive letter (Y:). Then I created a Backup Location using that Y: drive, set the policy, etc., etc., and it worked perfectly!

    So it appears that if you try to create a Backup Location by navigating to the folder you want through My Network Places, it will NOT work correctly.

    I have one theory about why that comes from looking at the logs in the last post:

    Backup deletion
    Location:atis:network? file://htpc\E\New Folder\
    Number of backups:
    1

    It could just be a typo, but I believe "file://htpc\E\New Folder\" should be "file:\\htpc\E\New Folder\" Like I said, this may just be a typo in the log, but if they're actually passing it this way in the code, it looks wrong to me, and may be why it's having trouble finding the file and correctly deleting it.

    YIPPEE!!!!!
     
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