Macrium Reflect question!

Discussion in 'backup, imaging & disk mgmt' started by ratchet, Aug 8, 2012.

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  1. ratchet

    ratchet Registered Member

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    I tried it the other day and was somewhat confused. I can't provide a screenshot as I uninstalled it and just used W7 backup again. I have one 120gb SSD. Properties always shows 111gb. MR showed two: the 111 in one column and for some reason to the right, a 100gb. One definitely had the C: designation, can't recall if both did and obviously they both have had to referenced the same drive. So why did MR render this way? My external HD is only 60gb so it definitely wasn't referencing that. Thank you!
    I edit: Actually, I was going to use W7 and MR and time them. Experiment on hold!
     
  2. MarcP

    MarcP Registered Member

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    You have a system reserved partition and Macrium showed it to you. It's not uncommon and it's probably 100MB in size, not 100GB.
     
  3. ratchet

    ratchet Registered Member

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    mmm, could have been. I'll probably install it again and check it out.
     
  4. Jim1cor13

    Jim1cor13 Registered Member

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    That was my thought also MarcP, that it was seeing the SRP in Win7.

    @ratchet: Installing Win7 in an existing formatted partition it will not create that system reserved partition, as far as I am aware. So I would think Macrium was indeed seeing the "srp" that Win7 created if it was installed originally into unallocated space, and not a formatted existing partition if I recall correctly. The system reserved partition is the area that contains the BCD or boot config data, among a few other things, and is generally set at 100MB by the OS.
     
  5. aladdin

    aladdin Registered Member

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    BitLocker is only available in Enterprise/Ultimate Edition.

    Best regards,
     
  6. Isso

    Isso Developer

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    aladdin,

    There is actually one more use for the system reserved partition - the ability to use cluster size bigger than 4k on the system drive.
     
  7. aladdin

    aladdin Registered Member

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    I don't understand want you mean with the above. Can you provide some more information?

    Best regards,
     
  8. Isso

    Isso Developer

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    If you delete the system reserved partition you won't be able to use cluster size other than default 4k on the system volume (C:\).
    If you keep the system reserved partition, then you can use any cluster size on C:\
     
  9. aladdin

    aladdin Registered Member

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    Again I don't understand. Please provide some links to explain.

    Of course, you cannot just delete the System Reserve Partition (SRP), if you did this your system won't boot. You have to merge the SRP with the System Volume (C:\) for your system to boot.

    The only reason for a separate SRP is for BitLocker and nothing else. If there is any other reason then please provide some links.

    Best regards,
     
  10. MarcP

    MarcP Registered Member

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    I've been googling this and everything I found agrees with Aladdin. It is only used by BitLocker and is only done with Win7 Ultimate/Enterprise. You'd think that if it had anything to do with cluster size, it'd be on all versions of Win 7. Plus there are ways to remove that partition and it doesn't change cluster size of NTFS at all.

    http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=409
     
  11. Jim1cor13

    Jim1cor13 Registered Member

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    Thanks guys, Aladdin and MarcP. I am unaware of the cluster size issue, etc., Isso mentioned, and I was unaware or forgot about the Bitlocker use of the SRP.

    Isso, as far as cluster size, I was not aware there was a limit for the system volume, or that it had anything to do with the SRP, but all I remember is basically what Aladdin mentioned. If you can, please explain your comment. I don't think my brain can absorb much more after all these years LOL

    Have a good night guys!
     
  12. Isso

    Isso Developer

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    Aladdin, MarcP, Jim1cor13

    Sorry, looks like I don't describe it clearly enough.

    For example you want to format your main C: volume with 64K cluster size (rather than 4K default). If you don't use system reserved partition your system won't boot, because Windows loader can boot only from volume with 4K clusters.
    So in order to use a 64K clusters on the main C: volume you must keep the system reserved partition. That partition will be formatted with default 4K cluster size and the Windows loader will be placed into it. That way you will have a bootable system.

    Below is the first link that I found on the net:

    http://www.sevenforums.com/installation-setup/20281-possible-create-c-drive-64k-clusters.html

    Read the first post for the description of the problem, and the post #15 for the solution. Hope this makes sense now.
     
  13. aladdin

    aladdin Registered Member

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    The only reason Microsoft has decided to keep the SRP separate is for BitLocker only. The SRP is not encrypted and contains the boot files. Then one can safely encrypt the system drive C and still boot without any problems.

    However, if one decides not to encrypt the system drive C, then the boot files can be kept on the system drive C. I have nine computers in my home where I have moved the boot files to system drive C from SRP, and then safely deleted the SRP as I don't own Enterprise/Ultimate, and even if I did, I don't foresee to ever use BitLocker.

    The rest is gibberish and nothing to do with SRP. There is no need to format the drive while installing Windows Vista and Windows 7.

    Best regards,
     
  14. aladdin

    aladdin Registered Member

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    For your system to boot, you need boot files as explained by Jim1cor13 in his post #4 above.

    Either you have these boot files in SRP or on the system drive C. If you have these files in SRP, then you safely need to move them to system drive C and then you can delete SRP and still boot.

    Without proper boot files (BCD store), you cannot boot.

    Best regards,
     
  15. Isso

    Isso Developer

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    read the link that I gave you again, it has nothing to do with bitlocker
     
  16. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Isso,

    I don't want a SRP and I only use the default cluster size in Win7 but you are correct in that to have 64k clusters in Win7, you must have a SRP.
     
  17. aladdin

    aladdin Registered Member

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    Dear Brian,

    The bigger the cluster size, the more wastage of disk space, especially the 64k clusters.

    However, once a disk is formatted and Windows is installed, one cannot change the cluster size without reformatting the disk or using disk partitioning software like Acronis Disk Director.

    Are you saying that once Windows is installed with 64k clusters size, then one cannot safely remove SRP?

    Best regards,
     
  18. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    aladdin,

    I haven't tried it, but probably not. Isso should know.

    Like you, I always use default clusters.
     
  19. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    You could remove it but you'd need to move the booting files to another NTFS 4K cluster partition and set it up for booting.
     
  20. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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  21. aladdin

    aladdin Registered Member

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    I agree with you that SRP can be safely removed even when Windows is installed with 64 clusters. If this is not true then Terabyte needs to change the information on their site.

    Clusters sizes are set when a hard disk is formatted and then rarely changed. Changing clusters size on the system drive C with a partition manager program can be very dangerous.


    Agree. In the days of Windows XP one had to format a hard drive before installing Windows. With Windows Vista and Windows 7, one only installs the Windows, which installs the default clusters.

    Best regards,
     
  22. aladdin

    aladdin Registered Member

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    Thanks for the above information. Terabyte needs to change the information on their site about removing SRP.

    So basically, the boot files cannot reside on the 64k clusters.

    Best regards,
     
  23. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    With all OS, I create the partition first, with BIBM, set it Active and then boot from the Windows disk and install into the already created partition.
     
  24. ratchet

    ratchet Registered Member

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    Taking into consideration my computer literacy IQ, I've done some tweaking when I really should have left well enough alone. I've read the Terabyte instructions for moving SRP and it does seem to potentially be a disaster just waiting to happen. So I need to ask, what will I gain moving or removing the SRP? Should you answer there is no great advantage to the procedure my obsessive side may make me do it anyway though. If there is some advantage I'll be going for it! Thank you!
     
  25. Isso

    Isso Developer

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    Brian, MudCrab

    Thanks for posting the link - it fully explains this issue.
     
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