Looking for Wired Router.....

Discussion in 'hardware' started by bgfalconboy, Nov 15, 2009.

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  1. bgfalconboy

    bgfalconboy Registered Member

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    I have cable internet and a ps3. I want to be able to connect my laptop and ps3 to the internet at the same time. I was wondering what are the best choices for wired routers.
     
  2. Sputnik

    Sputnik Registered Member

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    Probably your modem already has a router functionality so you can just buy a switch saving you quite some bucks ;)
     
  3. bgfalconboy

    bgfalconboy Registered Member

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    Interesting. I have Time Warner and they supplied a motorola modem. I can buy a switch connect it to the modem and then connect laptop and ps3 to the switch? I believe the modem is the Motorola SURFboard cable modem.
     
  4. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    That's not likley true. Most modems do NOT include a router as a router is a totally separate (electrically speaking) network device from a modem. What is the Motorola model number? If it is the very popular 5120 Surfboard, then it definitely does not include a router.

    Note an Ethernet router with NAT is really a very low-tech device - that is NOT a criticism, it just means that just about any brand will do what you want effectively, and that is to share your connection with multiple devices while providing a very effective level of security for the connected computers. Every broadband (cable/DSL) user should use a router, IMO, even if there is only one computer on your network - your network being everything on your side of the gateway device (the modem). This is because the router assumes the public IP address assigned by the ISP, then the router assigns new IP addresses to the connected computers, hiding the computer's IP from the world. This is very effective a thwarting hacking attempts by all but the most determined, and skilled, badguy.

    Note that a true router has only 1 input and 1 output, but most routers INCLUDE in the same box a 4-port Ethernet switch - which is also a totally separate (electrically speaking) network device.

    I personally like the Linksys line of network devices and the BEFSR41 for a basic router with NAT. However, D-Link, Netgear, and a host of other makers provide similar, and competing devices. I have also used the D-Link DI-604UP in several setups. This device is particularly nice because it includes a USB print server so you can attach a non-network capable printer and turn it into a networked printer and centrally locate it so all networked computers can print to it. The printer does not have to be tethered to and shared by a host computer - a very good thing.
     
  5. YeOldeStonecat

    YeOldeStonecat Registered Member

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    Depends if you're talking about DSL or Cable. Most cable ISPs, as above with the Motorola, ship pure modems with their home grade accounts, and they'll usually use gateway appliances (combo modem/routers) with their business grade accounts.

    With most DSL ISPs however, they're also shipping gateway appliances lately (combo modem/routers) to basic home setups, and naturally heavier duty similar devices for their business grade accounts.

    Since the OP is interested in gaming, I encourage a more current generation router than the ancient befsr41 and dl604 series....DLinks DGL-4300 is quite affordable now, and certainly their higher end DGL 4500...both will have superior throughput to easily keep up with todays faster internet connections, and some good QoS features for gaming.
     
  6. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    Most? I'm not sure you can say that. "Some", for sure - but most? Around the world? I don't know. I think it depends on what you ask for. I note some come with wireless access too. But some still come with nothing and you have to buy the gateway. But even so, that's for new customers, not existing.
     
  7. YeOldeStonecat

    YeOldeStonecat Registered Member

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    For the OP, the observant eye would notice he's in the States..since in his sig his ISP is "Time Warner". I can say "most DSL ISP's" because I have clients in many states, I work with many broadband connections from many many different ISPs all the time. Way back in the old days of the likes of Speedstream 5120 "dumb modems"...any of those still running are being rapidly replaced as ISPs upgrade their packages and require DSL2 modems. And those DSL2 modems are coming, by majority, as little NAT boxes. Which actually is a good thing for most home networks, the end client by default ends up protected by NAT for basic firewall protection.
     
  8. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    Okay, but the observant eye would notice he has cable, not DSL, and a Motorola Surfboard modem, of which only a few models have a built in router, and that he is asking for a router. Therefore, I think it safe to assume he would have noticed 4 extra Ethernet ports on his, if his was one with a router. So my suggestions stand.
     
  9. Sputnik

    Sputnik Registered Member

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    @Bill_Bright
    Sorry I was not aware of the situation in the United States. In Europe you'll get a modem with router functionality (NAT) with almost any cable/dsl provider. For the cheapest subscriptions they limited these devices to one port, but the NAT functionality is still build in so you can just use a switch instead of buying a more expensive router.

    I'm aware of the technical difference between the two devices. I agree with you that now-a-days you can buy just about any brand for home usage.
     
  10. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    I am not saying it is a set "situation" where folks get a modem only. I am just saying having an integrated router is not a given either. Many providers offer several plans and service levels, from very basic, to full wireless included. And many folks have been broadband subscribers for years (over 12 for me). So NEW subscribers have more options than subscribers of even just a couple years ago - to include the ISP providing a choice of devices (modem only up to all-in-one with modem/router/switch/WAP in one box), to some allowing users to purchase their own.

    The only "situtation" here in the US is that the US is WAY behind in having it's citizens broadband connected (the numbers are high, but the percentages are not).

    http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...adband-penetration-trails-s-korea-estonia.ars
     
  11. Sputnik

    Sputnik Registered Member

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    @Bill_Bright
    I do understand that isp's in the United States don't give their users updated modems? My experience in Europe/Russia is that existing customers do get updated modems over time, especially on the cable network when network upgrades are applied (DOCSIS 1.0 -> 2.0 -> 3.0).
     
  12. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    Yeah. I'm with Cox Communications and when I upgraded to DOCSIS 2.0, I had to buy a new modem. Only new subscribers got the new modems when they signed their life away with a new contract.

    DOCSIS 3.0 has yet to come to Cox's Omaha region but I suspect since this 2.0 modem is mine, I will have to pay again for a 3.0.
     
  13. Sputnik

    Sputnik Registered Member

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    @Bill_Bright
    I see, didn't expect that in the United States. Currently I have only 56k6 at home so it could always be worse ;)
     
  14. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    Been there, done that. In fact, I remember 300 baud!
     
  15. YeOldeStonecat

    YeOldeStonecat Registered Member

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    "Most"..without a doubt, yes I'm confident in stating that. Looking at the sheer volume of clients I have across various states in the US (and now into South America)..I can state that with confidence. You get a default unit handed/shipped to you by the ISP. If you want something else, you have to ask for it, but you're not usually given a choice unless you succumb to some ISPs sales push for the home wireless gateway setup that they soak you for as an option for some home setups.

    I also partnered with 4x ISPs as part of my business, both DSL and cable, so I'm frequently with their sales, tech, data center guys, and onsite setup guys.

    Existing customers also do get new units, as ISPs have rolled out newer faster packages. Old DSL 1 type modems were replaced by newer DSL 2 modems. You very rarely still see the ancient Speedstream 5120 models, or the hideous and horrid performing 2Wire 1800G models.

    So @ Sputnik....yes, many ISPs do this..they will upgrade your modem so you can keep up with newer technologies. Myself, I prefer purchasing my own modems..ends up less expensive in the long run..even when I factor in the cost of having a spare.
     
  16. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    Again, that's not a given. As I stated, my ISP did not upgrade existing subscribers. Sure, they offered to sell us new modems, but they did not provide them, and those they offered were simple modems - and did not include routers.

    That said - we have driven this thread way OT and recommend we give this thread back to the OP, who is asking for a advice on buying a new wired router.



    Edit: Added omitted "not".
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2009
  17. Howard Kaikow

    Howard Kaikow Registered Member

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    A real router would provide a hardware firewall for all devices passing thru the router.

    A switch, AFAIK, offers no such protection, or does it?
     
  18. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    Sorry but that is not true. A router is not a firewall. A router simply "routes" packets between networks. A firewall is a security device, or protocol that acts a gate into and sometimes out of a trusted zone based on defined network preferences. A real router might include a firewall, but does not have to.

    A switch does not offer any security.
     
  19. Howard Kaikow

    Howard Kaikow Registered Member

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    That's why I said "real router".
    Maybe I should have said "most routers sold these daze have a built-in firewall".
    Or, "one should buy only real roiters that include a firewall".
     
  20. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    Saying it any of those 3 ways does not change reality. A "real" router is not a firewall, and whether a router includes a firewall or not does NOT make a router "real" or not. That's like saying only "real" monitors display in color.

    In a large network, the firewall is typically a separate piece of specialized hardware, or may be special software sitting on a separate, designated computer used as a "gateway" device.

    We also need to ensure firewall "like" features are not confuse with "real" firewalls. NAT, contrary to what marketing weenies would have us believe, is not a firewall, nor does it make a router "real". SPI (stateful packet inspection) is a powerful firewall protocol or filter, and most of today's "better" routers for SOHO applications use SPI, but again, a router does not have to include SPI to be a "real" router.

    I recommend reading How Routers Work or skip right to the quiz found on that page and note in the answer to Question 8 what it says a router "can" have, not what it "will" have.

    Let's re-phrase your last suggestion and call it even, "One should only buy a router that includes a firewall".
     
  21. Howard Kaikow

    Howard Kaikow Registered Member

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    That's a "real router".
     
  22. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    You just won't accept it, will you? That's sad. And it still does not change the facts, nor does using wrong terminology make it right. I'll say it one more time, a real router does not have to include a firewall to be a real router. A router that includes a firewall, is just that, a router that happens to also include a firewall. To insist otherwise merely indicates a layperson with a stubborn attitude. And for that, I recommend taking a couple networking courses at your local college.

    Have a good day.
     
  23. bgfalconboy

    bgfalconboy Registered Member

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    Well to answer some of the questions, yes I do have cable in the US. My modem from Time Warner definitely isn't a router. I would'n't mind having a firewall router or whatever but for now I just wanted something to share my internet connection with my ps3. Getting tired of having to disconnect ethernet cable from laptop to ps3 and then unplugging the modem for roughly 30 secs , plugging back in so that the modem can "talk" to the ps3 for the connection to work. I really don't want to spend a whole of money here. less than $40 is preferable. Would a simple ethernet switch like this one work even if though my modem doesnt' have router functionality?
    http://www.staples.com/Netgear-ProSafe-5-Port-10-100-Fast-Ethernet-Switch/product_487840
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2009
  24. bgfalconboy

    bgfalconboy Registered Member

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    Mine from Time Warner is the Surfboard SB5101.
     
  25. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    Which is exactly what you can do with a typical home router, but the router also provides a major level of security you don't get with a switch. Note that almost every router sold for home use includes a 4-port Ethernet switch. So something like the D-Link EBR-2310 would be perfect, and with the $10 rebate and free shipping from Newegg, the price should be in your budget.
     
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