looking for an APC ups ,can you give me some advises about these 3 units?

Discussion in 'hardware' started by mantra, Jul 15, 2019.

  1. mantra

    mantra Registered Member

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    hi
    i'm looking for an apc ups
    my APC Back-UPS BX1400U died yesterday after amost 2 years (i guess 2 years and 5 o 6 months)
    great unit (even the batteries died so quickly ) ,butl I did not like it so much because it was always very warm/hot and it had a bad smell (like a toxic smell)

    I gonna to buy a new one , and i'm not very decided , i'm looking for an ups that does not warm so much and it's not noisy seeing i will keep in my bedroom

    what about these apc units ?
    Back-UPS 700VA BE700G
    Back-UPS 700VA BX700U
    Easy-UPS BV 800VA BV800I

    thanks you so much in advance
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2019
  2. hawki

    hawki Registered Member

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    Earlier I posted in this thread an Amazon Prime Day Deal for a CyberPower sine wave ups (BRG1500AVRLCD Intelligent LCD UPS System, 1500VA/900W, 12 Outlets) for $125 that usually sells for $215 -- I had purchased this unit at this price in a Black Friday Deal for $125. I subsequently deleted the post after seeing that the deal had been 100% subscribed.

    Here's a similar deal you might want to keep an eye on -- it's an upcoming deal that is scheduled to go live at 3:35 PST:

    APC Sine Wave UPS Battery Backup & Surge Protector, 1500VA, APC Back-UPS Pro (BR1500MS)

    The usual price is $202 so the Prime Day Price should be around $120.

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0779LDRW..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=P29RSXBTJF21VJ2DTFMY


    If you are not an Amazon Prime member you can sign up for a free trial and then cancel after you receive your order.

    https://www.amazon.com/amazonprime?_encoding=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2019
  3. mantra

    mantra Registered Member

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    hi
    good for you , i guess you live in Usa , here in Europe i can find at 279,20 € (not less)

    and about the acp here in eurpe is 311,99 €

    i 'm don't play with computers ,i'm not a gamer
    i guess 800V or 700V are enough for me

    thanks
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
  4. mantra

    mantra Registered Member

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    hi
    i have replaced the battery of my apc back up 1400Va 700W , i have plugged my computer , monitor , router

    my I ask you 2 questions?
    1)may i know what settings should i use voltage settings ?

    max 280W
    min 155W

    2) does a lower value in the "if Ac utility voltage goes below" drain faster the batteries?

    thanks

    i took a screenshot
    https://i.imgur.com/wzJukqy.png
     
  5. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    Those settings are for when the UPS switches over to battery backup. If your mains are frequently providing voltages that are too low or too high (which would be very unusual) and you are seeing your UPS kicking over to battery backup power way too often, then you can adjust those. But typically it is best to leave them alone.

    As far as your APC being warm, is it still very warm or hot and producing a bad smell after replacing the batteries? Some warmth is normal. But very warm/hot and producing a smell (when not brand new) is not normal and I would suspect your UPS is faulty.

    And when very warm, it is normal for the fan spin faster and make more noise. But once the batteries are fully charged and the system is running off the mains (not the batteries), the UPS should not get hot and the fan noise should go away, or at least go very quiet.
     
  6. xxJackxx

    xxJackxx Registered Member

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    I wish I had seen that. I bought nothing from the Prime Day(s) this year. Only a couple of good deals and I missed them. We've been using the CyberPower units for years at work and had good luck with them. That said the APC rackmount units we have are good as well though much more expensive.
     
  7. mantra

    mantra Registered Member

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    hi @Bill_Bright
    no , it's not anymore very warm and it does not smell bad , after i have replaced the 2 batties ,it 's normal now
    may i know the default voltage settings values ?
    and are these setting stored in the ups memory or is powerchute that at every boot keep the ups running with these setting (voltage settings)?

    but does the unit keep to charge batteries , when i shut it down ?

    thanks
    ps there is no a fan inside , it's apc backup 1400va 700W
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2019
  8. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    Then it definitely sounds like one or more of the old battery cells was bad (shorted). What that meant was it could never be fully charged, but the UPS kept trying to charge it and that's why it stayed very warm. The new batteries are able to be fully charged.

    If you turn off the UPS, then no, it does not keep the batteries charged. Like all batteries, they will [slowly] lose their charge. But with good batteries, it should take many months to discharge from a full charge.
    I don't know. I can't find them on the spec sheets for that UPS. Some UPS let you adjust those cut-over threshold voltages with dip-switches on the back of the UPS. But according to the image I saw for your UPS, it does not have those. But I don't see that as a problem. That's is a "smart" UPS.

    That said, according to your manual (available on that image page) you can adjust your sensitivity settings by using the UPS ON/Off button to put the UPS in "Program Mode". And assuming your PowerChute is the same as mine, if you look at the Configuration > Sensitivity and Voltage tabs, you can make minor adjustments from there too. But unless you are having problems with too frequent cut-overs, I would leave them at the defaults.

    BTW, while the expected battery life is specified as 2 - 5 years, it is my experience they typically last close to 4 years - depending on how heavily used they are. Yours might have failed early due to poor grid stability, or you just got unlucky. Hopefully you will get longer service from those new batteries. FTR, I have several APC UPS that are many years old and still working just fine. The oldest is an APC Smart UPS 900 and is about 25 years old! While it has had several battery changes, it still works fine and is currently in my garage supporting my garage door opener! :)

    One last thing. One thing that will help ensure better UPS operation is to ensure you are feeding your UPS good power. You can't do anything about the power your power company is providing, but you can make sure your wall outlet is properly wired and grounded to Earth ground.

    Every home and every computer user should have access to a AC Outlet Tester to ensure your outlet is properly wired and grounded to Earth ground. I recommend one with a GFCI (ground fault circuit interrupt) indicator as it can be used to test bathroom and kitchen outlets (outlets near water) too. These testers can be found for your type and voltage outlet, foreign or domestic, (like this one for the UK) at most home improvement stores, or even the electrical department at Wal-Mart. Use it to test all the outlets in the home and if a fault is shown, have it fixed by a qualified electrician.

    One more one last thing ;). NEVER plug a UPS into a surge and spike protector (this is in the user guide). And NEVER plug a surge and spike protector into the output side of the UPS. Surge and spike protectors modify the waveform and this can confuse the AVR intelligence circuits - either causing it to over work the AVR, or cut-over to battery too often. When used on the output side, a surge and spike protector can be seen by the UPS as an unstable load, and shut down the UPS to protect the connected equipment.

    If you need an extension cord from the wall to the UPS, just get a plain, "heavy duty" extension cord, as short as necessary. I recommend 12 gauge or larger. Note, gauge numbers go backwards. Smaller gauge numbers equals larger wires. So a 10 gauge wire is larger than a 12 gauge and is able to carry more current longer distances.

    If you need more outlets on the back side of your UPS (often required to support those large power blocks of smaller devices), I recommend using a spider extension cord.
     
  9. mantra

    mantra Registered Member

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    hi @Bill_Bright
    i was sure that apc does keep charded the battery even when i turn off pushing the power button
    instead after i have replaced the battery I plugged to the wall ,it was off but it charged the battery to 100%


    i have read several times the manual , there is few information , and honestly I've never understood what is the "program mode"
    can not find an answer , even in my native language , the is only "keep pushing the power botton to enter in program mode" , translated from my language in english

    the software i use i PowerChute Personal Edition v3 last version for w10
    i would like for my imac , but PowerChute Personal Edition is windows only
    i guess the best is APCUPSD - apc ups daemon ,but it's outdated ,last version is for el capitan

    wow lucky you ! 25 years old , maybe the back ups line are cheap ,just like mine is ups costs 219,59 €

    thanks for the 2 tips and as soon as i can i will buy an ac outlet tester

    I use an "heavy duty :) " extension cord , i guess it's 15 meters

    I use one of this to plug some external hard disks , it's simple
    is it ok ?
    thanks Bill!


    https://i.imgur.com/fG6pZa3.png
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2019
  10. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    Then it was not fully off. I thought you meant you flipped the master switch in the back of the UPS.

    Pretty sure it says to Press and hold the power button to enter Program Mode. Once in power mode, you press it again to switch options.

    Check the PowerChute About page. The latest version is 3.0.2.

    That's pretty long. The longer the cable, the more resistance it has. If you need that length, I would make sure it is at least 12 Gauge. Even 10 might be better. The cord should have labeling printing only its out insulating covering. If you don't need that length, I recommend getting a shorter extension cord.
    I don't know. I can't tell by the image what that really is. Many surge and spike protectors look exactly like that. It should say on the back if it is a surge and spike protector or not. If it is, don't use it with the UPS.
     
  11. mantra

    mantra Registered Member

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    Hi @Bill_Bright
    i have downloaded the manual and it's only 1 page , i have the paper manual too

    may i ask you these questions?

    1) well the AVR is always on ,isn't it ?
    2) the program mode (for what i understood) is for change the sensititivity (from low-medium-high),isn't it ?
    https://i.imgur.com/LkSeslN.png

    there are only 2 leds ,online and battery replace battery
    i tried to enter in program mode , i turn off pushing online button , after keep pushing online button for some seconds ->program mode
    but the leds don't blink , i guess it had to use the software

    i can plug directly to the wall without cable if it's better
    what does it mean more is long the cable more increase the resitance

    thanks Bill , sorry for my poor english
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2019
  12. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    When the UPS ( the master power switch) is on, yes. In fact, it is the AVR (automatic voltage regulation) feature of a "good" UPS that makes a UPS so important. The AVR is constantly monitoring the mains input voltage waveform and voltage levels and instantly adjusts and shapes that voltage as needed, without kicking over to battery backup. It will instantly absorb and attenuate surges and spikes. And it will instantly boost the voltage as needed for dips (opposite of spikes) and sags (opposite of surges) and brownouts (long term sags) too. :) It is this "regulation" that makes a "good" UPS with AVR so superior to even the best surge and spike protectors. Note battery backup during a full power outage is just minor bonus, compared to the AVR feature.
    Yes. And I have mine set to "High". Why is yours set to Medium?

    It is my understanding the LED Power Mode feature is for those users who do not use PowerChute. You do so I think you should not worry about pressing buttons and LEDs.
    Resistance is like friction. All wires cause resistance and resistance reduces voltage. So a 15 meter wire will have more resistance than a 2 meter wire. If you don't need the extension cord, don't use it. If you need one, use one that is as short as needed.
     
  13. mantra

    mantra Registered Member

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    hi @Bill_Bright
    it's set to Medium ,just because it's set as default , i will switch to high , i guess I need to do with PowerChute
    because I don't know how change it via ups unit buttons , just like I said i have only 2 buttons Online and Replace Battery , and in the manual there is nothing about how change from medium to high via hardware
    thanks Bill
     
  14. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    I guess I must have changed mine a long time ago and forgot. I say switch it to High and see how it goes. If your UPS starts switching to battery too often, go back to medium.
     
  15. Surt

    Surt Registered Member

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    This looks like a good thread to update with my experience.

    About 15 years ago, I acquired on the cheap two server class Tripp Lite SU1000XL UPSs having online topology, also referred to as double conversion.

    They each have three BP7-12 batteries that last about two years as they are 100% active. And the disassembly and reassembly of the SU1000XL is a royal pain in the assets.

    The level of protection online topology delivers is for now me overkill and I can do without the too-often expense of replacing the batteries. They run about $20-25 each but shipping can add a good hit as they weigh in at 5.5 lbs each. Amazon Prime became a big friend to the budget in that respect.

    Anyhow, consumer grade line interactive topology UPSs have "grown up" with the availability of affordable pure sine wave vs. simulated sine wave output. The marketing candor of "pure" is compelling, but relative to simulated, it is inarguably purer.

    As line interactive topology UPSs have no dependency on batteries when line voltage is available, the batteries can go up to 5 or more years. Depending on the VA value, these UPSs have one or two batteries.

    The consumer grade UPSs I researched are the Cyberpower CP and GX series and the APC BR series. As far as line filtering, surge protection and sine wave output go, they're about equal. All pretty much modern builds of old school tech.

    The ancient expression, "six of one, half a dozen of the other" is a fitting wrap up when it comes to features and functionality for the two brands but for one scope: AVR boost and trim.

    AVR is automatic voltage regulation by means of an autotransformer providing boost and trim, the latter also known as buck. AVR is a far simpler, therefore more reliable, method of dealing with over and under voltage issues. (Over voltage, not to be confused with surges.) Under voltage from your power company is more prevalent than over but these days either is rare.

    When line voltage falls or exceeds a certain percentage, the autotransformer boosts or trims the voltage by that percentage. When the line voltage exceeds either of the percentages, battery supplied power kicks in, known as standby topology. (UPSs depending solely on standby topology are marketed for their low price points. Nonetheless they work quite well.)

    While Cyberpower models offers only a single boost at 11.5%, the APRs offer an 11.5% boost and 11.5% trim providing simpler reliability and less dependence standby topology. Cyberpower's AVR is an AVR for the sake of an AVR.

    A couple of APC BR1500MS2 purchases is a no brainer.

    Just for comparison, SOHO class UPSs have, for example, boosts at 30% and 14% and a trim at 12%.

    Cheers.

    Sidebar. Here's an explanation of UPS sensitivity from the APC web site but is otherwise industry standard:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 22, 2020
  16. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    Marketing "candor"? I don't know what that means. "Candor" suggests honesty, "marketing" suggests exaggerated hype. And in this case, when it comes to the marketing that suggests computer users need pure sinewave UPS, that is pure marketing hogwash.

    Not sure what you mean there either. Is a sinewave more "pure" than a simulated or stepped approximated sine wave? Maybe. It depends on how "clean" that sinewave is. If it is contaminated with a bunch of poorly suppressed noise, then it certainly is not pure.

    So again, pure is just more marketing hogwash here.

    Either way, the "marketing hype" spewed out by the makers of pure sinewave UPS is indeed, hogwash. They are just trying to take sales away from the makers (and market share leaders) of the simulated or stepped approximation UPS.

    Stepped approximation UPS have been used to support mission critical computer systems for decades. There is no reason computer power supplies suddenly today cannot run off them.

    True on-line or "double conversion" UPS have been pretty much a marketing gimmick from the start too. Why? Because the ATX Form Factor standard for ATX power supplies requires, that is, it is mandatory they "hold-up" voltages for at least 17ms. That means any time the line voltage drops below 90VAC (180 for 240VAC mains), our computer power supplies must maintain full output voltages for at least 17ms if they are to be ATX compliant.

    And any 1/2 way decent UPS can easily sense such a drop in voltage and cut-over to battery backup in less time than that; 5 - 10ms is typical. Even this budget CyberPower 750VA simulated sine wave UPS has a transfer time of 8ms.

    The ONLY reason pure sinewave UPS have become so popular in recent years is because their prices have finally come down and become competitive with the simulated sine wave UPS. If you look at that BR1500MS2 UPS here, note the link to the other 1500VA UPS (BR1500G). It outputs stepped approximation sinewave and actually costs $7 more.

    The truth is, about the only time there really is a need for a "pure" sine wave output UPS is when used to support highly "sensitive" health monitoring and life support equipment as found in hospital intensive care units.

    Also do not forget that 99.9% of the time in most scenarios, the UPS is not "on-line". That is, it is not acting as a battery backup, except during a total power outage. It is just "in-line" acting as a sophisticated "automatic voltage regulator" (AVR). It is really for the AVR that we need a "good" UPS. Backup power during a full power outage is just the icing on the cake. But even then, power supplies do just fine with stepped approximation outputs.

    This article is old, but it is still very applicable today, Is a Sinewave Necessary? Still unsure of the facts? Then please read what EVGA say about their power supplies:

    EVGA Knowledgebase

    For sure, I am NOT saying don't get a pure sinewave UPS. If you find one and the price is right, go for it. I don't have anything against them. Just don't believe you need it, or that it is better for your connected devices. That's just not true.
     
  17. Surt

    Surt Registered Member

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    I just realized I forgot to mention: The number of and therefore the percentages of AVR boosts and trims is determined by the number of and location of taps on the input winding of the autotransformer. Obviously, the more there are, the more sophisticated must be the circuitry monitoring the line voltage and the method used to switch between the taps.

    Anyhow, @ Bill_Bright

    I simply posted up my experience and rationale in selecting a UPS model that wrapped up the most desirable features IMHO at a reasonable price point.

    "Marketing "candor"? I don't know what that means."

    Marketing candor honesty where it could range from deceit, like James Clapper's "least untruthful" or your "marketing hype," to content reality, like "flouride fights cavities," to honest to gawd truth, like, well, um... OK, you got me on that last one.

    "Not sure what you mean there either."

    I used the word purer because the UPS (and inverter) industry uses the word pure. If they used clean sinewave, I would have said "inarguably cleaner." Which it is, properly engineered vs. properly engineered stepped approximation. Period.

    I don't believe any corporate entity has ever claimed an output equivalent to the one delivered by a wired armature, magnetic poles and slip rings.

    You are misinformed about online (double conversion) UPS, concern over "hold-up" voltage is irrelevant. The ATX, or any, power supply doesn't know the online UPS exists. https://en.wikipedia.org has the best 25 words or less some more wrap up:
    https://i0.wp.com/www.completepowerelectronics.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/ONLINE_UPS.jpg
    The static switch is for human operation and is either a toggle, rocker or push on/off switch or a press and hold (and wait for a beep and/or relay click) key pad button, the latter as implemented on my two SU1000XL units.

    This is what I conveyed in my passing mention of "...batteries...last about two years as they are 100% active."

    "...the only time there really is a need for a 'pure' sine wave output UPS is when used to support highly 'sensitive' ... equipment."

    The $1700 desktop PC I built in February, as in all previous boxes, holds personal and financial data having been permanently woven into my social and professional existence spanning three decades. Insurance, mortgage, loans, taxes, banking. Jury duty. Selfishly for good reason, for me it's equipment every bit as "sensitive" as the equipment you cite. That's why it and my NAS/router/switches/modem each have a UPS.

    "99.9% of the time in most scenarios, the UPS is not 'on-line'"

    Here in the SW USA, the 0.1% "of the time" is evoked by mighty monsoon storms roaring over and with rare exception, wreaking havoc in a matter of minutes. Just this August, I lost power for 20 hours. (The ol' smart phone and 1200mAh pack sure came in handy.)

    An acquaintance has a Cyberpower GX1325U picked up at Best Buy in October, 2018. It has logged 45 "events" since then. Not all storm related, of course, as our utility has a well deserved reputation for dysfunctional service. And drunks keep driving into utility poles. My microwave's clock going zero is a too often occurrence in my kitchen.

    "Still unsure of the facts?"

    Not in the least. Never was. Your concern is heartwarming. I've had that Kerchner URL bookmarked for ages. EVGA didn't really answer the question, and since one day to the next they brand PSUs from the lowest bid manufactures, they're all marketing hype anyway. (Seasonic makes the best PSUs; I have a Focus Plus Gold.)

    "If you find one and the price is right, go for it."

    I did and I will. Like I said, "A couple of APC BR1500MS2 purchases is a no brainer" is my conclusion so far. But I'm considering for the NAS/etc a Cyberpower PR1500LCD with its double boost, single buck AVR and to save a few bucks, for the PC dropping to a BR1000MS.

    Direct Current is dead. Long live Direct Current!

    That's all I got to say. Over and out. Cheers.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2020
  18. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    I am not misinformed at all. You simply misunderstood (or ignored, I'm not sure) what I said.

    What I said was the "hype" over online (double conversion) UPS - at least when it comes to computer systems - is just that, marketing "hype". Why? Because the 17ms hold-up time all ATX power supplies are required to support is way more time any 1/2 decent UPS needs to sense an anomaly (low or high voltage) and kick over to batteries before any interruption in PSU output occurs.

    So what? The ATX PSU does not know (or care) the on-demand UPS exists either. As far as the PSU is concerned, it is plugged into the wall, or an extension cord, or el cheap supreme surge and spike protector, or generator, or an RV inverter.

    No, no, no. Nice try. Now you are changing your story. Had you said "properly engineered vs properly engineered" the first time around, I would not have said anything. But you left that out. Have you ever looked at the output wave form of a so-called "pure" sinewave UPS on a scope? I have many times and there is nothing "clean" about them. This is a clean sinewave. The output of a "pure" [cough cough] sinewave UPS looks like this. And actually, that's a good one from a top of the line $400 + pure sine wave UPS. And what is stuck cleaning that up? The PSU regulators.

    Bullfeathers! No they aren't. Come on! I don't know who are you trying to kid or convince, but it is not me. See the link in my sig if you doubt I might know a little bit about what I am talking about here. The number and percentage of AVR boosts and trims are determined by the number and the "potentials" of the power anomalies seen by the UPS' line in circuitry - that is the UPS' intelligence circuits. If minor, the AVR will simply boost or trim (AKA: regulate) as necessary. If the sag (opposite of surge) or dip (opposite of spike) or brownout (long term sag) is excessive, the monitoring circuit direct a cut-over to battery.

    It seems you are trying to obfuscate the issue with feculent blather. I don't understand why. I can only guess it is to justify your own purchase decisions. There's no need for that. I am not criticizing them.

    Mission critical computers/servers have be supported by on-demand, stepped approximation UPS for decades. There is no reason they need in-line (or pure sinewave now). Today's PSUs are already more tolerant to power anomalies and today's power grids are more stable.

    3 decades? Then I won't hold your obvious youth and lack of experience against you. ;) My personal life and my business is run from my computers and all my computer systems and network is protected by UPS. Have been for 4+ decades at work and over 30 years in my home and home office, and home shop. In fact my very first APC Smart-UPS is pushing 30 years old and is still in service supporting my garage door opener. Of course, it has been through a few sets of batteries, but that's normal maintenance.

    And for the record, I lived in Tucson for many years. I maintained air traffic control radio communications equipment in Phoenix and Albuquerque. So I know all about the monsoons of the southwest. And they are NOTHING compared the two hurricanes I lived through in Mississippi and the Azores, or the severe weather we regularly experience here in Tornado Alley alley. 20 hour outages? Child's play!

    I am NOT saying in-line UPS are not good. I am not saying pure sinewave UPS are not good. I am saying the marketing hogwash suggesting our computers "need" to be protected by them is just that - marketing hogwash.

    A quality stepped approximation UPS with AVR, one big enough to support the computer, at least one monitor (so you can see what you are doing) and all your network gear is perfectly fine. The only extra needed may be one or two 18 inch spider extension cords for those space (and outlet) hogging wall-warts.

    Now I'm done here. Have a good day, be COVID smart, and hope you have a Happy Thanksgiving.

    Edit comment: fixed a couple minor typos
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2020
  19. Surt

    Surt Registered Member

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    My discussion of AVR was in this "3 units" defined context thread of consumer/SOHO grade, retail channel UPSs and not the entirety of the technology's universe. "UPS intelligence circuits" in a $129.99 product? Not even an opamp...

    Southwest monsoons roll in and out with far greater frequency, a dozen or two a season (though not too many recently, thankfully), than hurricane arrivals or tornado touchdowns; I wasn't trying to wrap up all of the bad weather I've been in or otherwise globally. Jeeze.

    Seen plenty of scoped UPS waves and sines are always better. That graphic you link is the wave produced by the wired armature, magnetic poles and slip rings I previously referenced. But thanks anyway.

    We'll have to disagree to agree or agree to disagree on the remainder of your occasionally upbraiding commentary.

    With the reference to spider extension cords, this would be good time to remind readers that surge protector strips should NOT be used on the power side of the UPS or as an output socket multiplier.

    This somewhat sophomore level AVR write up is the briefest one I could find:
    https://www.cyberpowersystems.com/feature_focus/automatic-voltage-regulation/
    "Surges" should be worded as "shifts."

    Advertised boost and buck specs are typically:
    Single boost of 11.5%
    Boost +18% / Buck -18%
    Boost 1 +30% Boost 2 +14% Buck -12%
    These specs, sadly lacking the voltage triggers, are about as good as AVR gets in the class, but expect to pay over $300 for a 500VA unit with that double boost, single buck.

    An example of greater technical expression: "An input voltage between 75 and 92 is boosted by 30%, an input voltage between 93 and 107 is boosted by 14%, and an input voltage between 128 and 147 is reduced by 12%" This defines a "managed AVR range," here 75-147 VAC.
    Correcting again, "falls below" should read "moves outside of," and "to battery backup" should read "to battery/inverter." This is a rollover from line-interactive to standby topology.
    https://www.cyberpowersystems.com/glossary/standby-topology/
    Sigh... "Surges" should be "rises." Relative to line-interactive units, the "safe voltage levels" is the managed AVR range. And "battery power" again means "battery/inverter." Not noted is, the inverter continues to charge the battery(ies) unless the line voltage falls to where the inverter quits. If the dangerous under voltages persist, connected gear will loose power when the battery(ies) runs down.

    While "surge" wording might seem OK, in the context of the typical UPS, surge is an event distinct from over/under voltage and shouldn't be used relative to the latter. Hence my corrections.

    And that, ladies and gentleman, is AVR for the class of cheapo, but nicely effective, UPSs.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2020
  20. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Posts:
    3,804
    Location:
    Nebraska, USA
    Well, of course. But that's not the point here. The point is, does it matter when it comes to supporting computer PC power supplies and the answer is a resounding "NO!" It hasn't mattered for the last 30+ years, why should it suddenly matter now that pure sinewave UPS have suddenly become affordable?

    :( Yes, this is true (at least the first part) - but was already thoroughly explained 18 months ago in post #8, before you necroed this thread. Speaking of unbraiding commentary - this is why one should read through what was said before - especially when dredging up very old, dormant thread.

    And for the record, of course you can use one of those spider extension cords as an "output socket multiplier"! There is absolutely no reason why you can't. As long as the total demand does not exceed the capability of the UPS outlet, there is no problem connecting multiple devices - especially when used as suggested in post #8 above, "to support those large power blocks of smaller devices".

    CyberPower's definitions for surges are just fine. In fact, a surge is a rise in voltage. "Shift" would not be correct in the context of incoming line voltage. Cyberpower is totally correct to say "surge" in that context. In fact, a "rise" could be misleading. Surges and spikes are rapid occurring, but temporary "anomalies". A "rise" could occur over minutes and last indefinitely until corrected.

    A surge is indeed an "over" (or high) voltage event. So is a spike. And I have no clue why you would try to suggest anyone is using "surge" to describe a "under" voltage event. Of course they are not the same.

    No it doesn't. Battery power means battery (DC/direct current) power. The voltage used to power the connected devices is coming from the battery, as opposed to the grid. That DC is then inverted but the power is still coming from the battery. Inverters do not provide or create, or generate power. It just converts DC voltage to AC (more or less, depending on further shaping and filtering).

    That is exactly correct! And you can follow the link in my signature to see if you think I might know a little on the subject.

    Since it is clear you feel Cyberpower doesn't know what they are talking about, I recommend you write up your "corrections" in a white paper, have it peer reviewed, then send it to Cyberpower.
     
  21. Surt

    Surt Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2019
    Posts:
    302
    Location:
    USA
    Announced late last year, APC finally got around to shipping 'em. The delay, of course, 'cause teh covid. Great specs and AVR with 15.7% boost and 13.6% buck when voltages hit 144 or 88 VAC in Sensitive mode; voltages above or below those values will kick the UPS into battery/inverter mode. 1080 joules surge protection and otherwise pretty much a 1500 VA consumer grade UPS. The $260 price point is $30-40 above similar APC units that don't look as good...

    I just snagged me a couple of these puppies:
    https://www.apc.com/shop/us/en/prod...inewave-Black-3-USB-Charging-Ports/P-BGM1500B
    Also available in pretty pretty white:
    https://www.apc.com/shop/us/en/prod...-Pure-Sinewave-3-USB-charging-ports/P-BGM1500

    Cheers.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2021
  22. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Posts:
    3,804
    Location:
    Nebraska, USA
    There's an interesting note on the Amazon page for those:
    I am glad to see the battery is user replaceable.
     
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