Linux or Windows

Discussion in 'other software & services' started by Sunnysdsr, Jul 19, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Sunnysdsr

    Sunnysdsr Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2006
    Posts:
    36
    So which would you suggest that provides better security and is more stable? I'm getting preety annoyed with Windows crashes and the number of exploits/vulns.
     
  2. bigc73542

    bigc73542 Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2003
    Posts:
    23,873
    Location:
    SW. Oklahoma
    The problem is that the malware creators are targeting Linux more and more as more people use it. and the exploits are definatly there. You might want to try a linux live cd to see if you even want to put up with the hassle of useing linux. Just by it's nature it will never be very user friendly. installing software in linux is not just click install like windows, sometimes it takes several programs just to make one work. Yep you probably need to try it before making a permanant change. Most people that try linux come back to windows pretty quick. But if you are looking for a challange then Linux may be the way to go. At this time linux has a security acvantage over windows but that is slowly being whittled away.
     
  3. FastGame

    FastGame Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2005
    Posts:
    677
    Location:
    Blasters worm farm
    Linux ;)

    That depends on what Distro....there's Linux versions that are as easy as Windows, installing software is a few clicks & automated.

    PCLinuxOS is a good example of easy :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2006
  4. craigbass76

    craigbass76 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2003
    Posts:
    72
    Location:
    Maine, USA
    Total Horse-kaka. By design, Linux is more secure just because as a regular user you don't have permissions to edit important system files. In fact, you really only have permission to edit the files in your home directory, unless as root you gave your regular user account permission to other files.

    With Windows, I guess the workaround would be to make a limited user account and use the OS that way. The problem there is that it's a royal pain to have to log out of the GUI as the limited user, then log back in as the administrator.

    In Linux, it's as simple as opening a shell and logging in as root. Granted, this is a command line interface which scares some people, but it's much faster. If you need to open up a GUI program to move or edit files or whatever, you can fire them up from that command line. So If I need to edit a text file but don't want the regular command line editor (vi) I'd use Kate (I love Kate) by typing kate /name/of/the/file. Much easier, and quicker, and even though MS now has a shell tool because they've finally realized that IT is much easier if you don't have to rely on the GUI, I don't know what you can do with it.

    If you do get plagued by malware, you can just log in as root, copy the necessary files from your home directory somewhere, then erase and recreate your username, then dump the files back in. Very easy, and it takes about ten minutes at the most, compared to Windows getting totally borked and requiring a two hour reformat and install.

    Linux or Windows? I don't know, you tell me.
     
  5. bigc73542

    bigc73542 Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2003
    Posts:
    23,873
    Location:
    SW. Oklahoma
    I have used and worked on computers and tried more linux distros than I care to count over the last several decades and I still use windows. Linux to me is something you use if you want to spend time writing code to make things work and figuring out what software might work on your version of linux and what else you will have to install to make the last install work. Linux is not user friendly and probably never will be or it would be windows which they try to avoid being

    edit==I will admit that linux is more secure for now.
     
  6. craigbass76

    craigbass76 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2003
    Posts:
    72
    Location:
    Maine, USA
    I can't agree totally. I will give concede that it is a bear to get some stuff to work (a touch screen is a recent example-- http://candocomputerservices.com/msgboard/viewtopic.php?t=9 the fix was about a two minute job but it took me all weekend to find it) Some distros make it difficult to add software, but with Debian and RedHat (and their variants) there are package managers that make it easy to install programs. I'm in the RedHat camp, so I use yum. Yum install ethereal will install the network monitoring tool Ethereal, plus all of its dependencies. Then there is an icon somewhere in the "start" menu where you can fire it up.
    The popular programs can all be installed this way, and even some that are not if you set up the correct yum repository. Then you can update the programs whenever you want--for free-- with the yum update command (yum update ethereal, or yum -y update ethereal if you want it to answer all the questions yes for you) lickety split.

    I don't know when the last time you used Linux was, but things are getting easier, and I'm having good luck with the people I convert.
     
  7. WSFuser

    WSFuser Registered Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2004
    Posts:
    10,632
    i agree with what BigC has said.

    also there are less crackers targeting linux platforms so any bugs and exploits wont be found as quickly.

    and lastly, if windows is crashing or freezing a lot, it could be a software or hardware conflict. and the expoits, theres not much u can do other than keep your windows updated.
     
  8. bigc73542

    bigc73542 Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2003
    Posts:
    23,873
    Location:
    SW. Oklahoma
    I am actually trying Novel 10 at the moment and so far it is not all that bad. I will try it for a while (month or so ) to see how it works with use. Don't get me wrong Linux is a good OS but it is just not for everyone. I just hate to hear people tell windows users how easy linux is when in reality====== well I won't get into that. And I have to agree that linux is getting better as software developers actually communicate with each other and make the software more compatable with different distros. ;)

    bigc

    P.S.
    a spirited discussion is always enjoyed :thumb:
     
  9. furballi

    furballi Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2006
    Posts:
    263
    Another post about Windows security!

    I run WXP Pro SP1 with only a hardware and software FW. System is bug-free since forever. How is this possible? Because I use my brain when I'm connected to the internet. Would you walk down a dark alley on the shady side of town at 1 am? If you wanna play, then you gotta pay. No OS is gonna save your bacon if you play with fire.

    Learn how to image your OS partition if you want to quickly recover from a disaster.

    If you have software that are properly coded, then they will run stable in Windows. WXP is a very good OS, but it will not run everything under the sun. I never fork over $ for a software unless I know that it's 100% compatible with my system. If I discover a bug in a program, then that program is removed from my PC. Time is $. I don't have time to track down and patch a buggy program.

    I have about 16 applications loaded in WXP. The other 11 stand alone applications are not "hooked" to windows.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2006
  10. dog

    dog Guest

    Other than rootkits, which have been around forever for unix - I don't know of any other malware targeting *nix. Unix/linux is far more secure .... it begins with the basic underlying design principle of operating as an unprivileged user vs. root/admin ... Microsoft has finally realized this and Vista will utilize this design principle. Linux is also modular ... there isn't a common thread linking layer upon layer like Windows.

    For an interesting read :

    Linux isn't any more difficult than Windows ... its just different - it takes time to learn something new to you. Once you invest some time learning it's a snap. :) As far as user friendly ... you won't find anywhere near the documentation in Windows that you'll find for *nix. Help (online help/fourms etc) is equally abundant for both both platforms.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 19, 2006
  11. craigbass76

    craigbass76 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2003
    Posts:
    72
    Location:
    Maine, USA
    BigC, I agree about spirited discussions; after a couple posts I was wondering if it was worth rehashing the same debate that's been raging for a while...I've been trying to think of things I don't hear very often. How's this...

    Linux doesn't have a registry; just text files. If something gets screwed up, all you have to do is find the appropriate text file and edit it so that it reads correctly.

    Question:
    If I mess up my Linux system, I can boot to either a rescue cd or something like DSL or Knoppix and fix the afformentioned text files.

    How do you do this in Windows? I know that some viruses and trojans are even active in Safe Mode. I used to be able to fix this with a linux cd until SP2 came out, and now I can't write to ntfs anymore. Is there a bootable cd somewhere so that you can fix something in windows then reboot to your normal OS?

    Nice meeting you by the way.
     
  12. Sunnysdsr

    Sunnysdsr Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2006
    Posts:
    36
    Thanks for the replier guys. Another question, which live cd distribution of Linux would you recommend?
     
  13. craigbass76

    craigbass76 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2003
    Posts:
    72
    Location:
    Maine, USA
    Depends what you want to do. Knoppix tends to detect almost any type of hardware, and wil by default put you on the network (if you're plugged into one and there is a dhcp server giving you an address) so you can take it for a spin. If you're going to be installing linux, Knoppix has a partitioning app called QTParted which looks pretty and is easy to use. Run defrag and scandisk in Windows before repartitioning though.

    DSL (Damn Small Linux) is a watered down Knoppix (which is actually a tweaked Debian) that runs really fast because you can boot the entire OS to ram (really smokes) but the GIU is not pretty and some of the programs (like IRC chat app) are text based.

    As far as a distro to install, I'm fond of the RedHat variants (Fedora and CentOS) just because I'm familiar with them. Big download though if you're going to get the .iso files from a web site. I'd sooner try osdisc.com and order enough to get free shipping. You should be able to get Knoppix, Fedora or Cent, and another for about 20 bucks. I got used to doing this when I was on dial-up, and I'll probably continue even now with broadband. Sometimes the .iso you download is corrupt, but you don't find out until you're part way through the install which rather sucks.
     
  14. dog

    dog Guest

    @ Craig ... verifing the checksum and run the integrity checker of the installer would negate trying to install a corrupted DL. I've never had any issues DLing any ISO.

    If you're on unlimited broadband it's a waste not to use it and order discs at an additional cost, when they can be DL freely ... as you're already paying a fee for the service to your provider. :doubt:

    @ Sunnysdsr ... it doesn't really matter which live distro if all you're trying to do is get the feeling for Linux ... there all just really different flavoured wrappers for the kernal ... the graphical desktop is probably more important in your case ... whether KDE, Gnome, Icewn, FVWM, Xfce etc. - it's a preference thing. When you've settled on installing linux, checking the live distro of your choice will help determine hardware support ... it's easier if everything will run out of the box ... but even if it doesn't where there's a will there's a way. ;) Knoppix is a good starting point as Craig mentioned. Generally the larger distros have the best hardware support because of their larger user base (SuSE, Ubuntu, Mandriva, Fedora ...etc.)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 19, 2006
  15. craigbass76

    craigbass76 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2003
    Posts:
    72
    Location:
    Maine, USA
    I like your corruptables link
    :)
     
  16. Mrkvonic

    Mrkvonic Linux Systems Expert

    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    Posts:
    8,694
    Hello,
    Linux is more secure, and it's sexier too.
    BTW, don't get alarmed by this malware storm. No reason to get infected in any of the operating systems. It's all in your head.
    As to the functionality, I think Linux offers a better future ahead, much more flexibility, freedom from Big Brother, cheaper, and less demands on the PC. Just take Vista for example - minimum 15GB for an OS that comes with nothing. And you can install SUSE or Kubuntu at 1/4 of that space, with some 30-40 excellent applications in all fields of computing.
    The real reason for going Linux should be: remember WGA, remember Sony DRM, validation, notification, bullshitification. Linux will give you a peace of mind and far more satisfaction when you succeed.
    In Windows, I do something neat, like Bart live CD or something, I shrug. In Linux, I pull a trick, I jump with glee. Linux is fun.
    Mrk
     
  17. Alphalutra1

    Alphalutra1 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2005
    Posts:
    1,160
    Location:
    127.0.0.0/255.0.0.0
    I hate to say it, but linux isn't really that hard. I have used windows since 95 which was my first OS. I just moved to linux a couple of weeks ago. It really isn't complicated, it is actually very simple. However, simple is sometimes hard to learn, no? Riding a bike is very simple, and so is putting in contacts to see, but it is very hard to start out with. I still remember using windows 95 for the first time, and that was pretty hard. I had no clue how to get pinball working :D .

    The thing with linux is, that there won't always be some pretty gui helping you along and actually complicating things by making you go through this menu to click this thing to go to this menu to click this thing to finally get a task accomplished. You have to get used to the command line. It is easy, and really powerful and quickly performs simple tasks. Let's take installing software on ubuntu and openbsd for example.

    To install software, there is often the problem of a thing called dependencies. For example, firefox may require a certain library of information in order to run correctly. This saves on bloat and multiple programs can share things instead of always installing them themselves. One way to install firefox is to open up a program called synaptic, then simple putting a checkmark next to firefox and clicking install. No searching for a file, they are all at your fingertips. Then, the program will automatically install firefox, and all of the things it requires.

    To perform this same task without using the complications of a GUI, this is what you need to enter in the commandline.
    "sudo" simply means that you want to have the special powers needed to install software and perform administartive tasks. You will be prompted to enter your password.

    apt-get is the program which does all of the finding of dependecies, and downloading and working with applications.

    install simply means that you want to install something

    mozilla-firefox is the name of the application you want to install.

    This means that any application can be installed with NO SEARCHING on the internet by simply using the same command but swapping mozilla-firefox for your application of choice.

    is all you need to type in openbsd to install firefox.

    So linux may seem harder at first, but it really isn't. You just need to dedicate yourself to not booting into windows just because you are too lazy to figure something out that is different, which is almost ALWAYS the reason users switch BACK to windows.

    In terms of security, BSD is the way to go, particularly OpenBSD. It has only had ONE remote exploit in a default install in eight years, which is pretty crazy. Then with some tweaking, you can really make your OS super secure.

    Cheers,

    Alphalutra1
     
  18. ronjor

    ronjor Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2003
    Posts:
    57,719
    Location:
    Texas
    One of the reasons Win95 appeared was because so many users didn't want to learn or use DOS to issue commands. They wanted a GUI.

    While it is true getting around on computers is much faster using command line, it's not for everybody.

    Unless you like to look at dark screens with command lines peeking at you, you will get a GUI to go on top of Linux. Much like Windows of old.

    If you are a business and use Linux, where do you go for support? A forum of Linux guru's?

    Linux has a place. Where that place is, is not clear to me.
     
  19. iceni60

    iceni60 ( ^o^)

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2004
    Posts:
    5,116
    Linux has some worms and rootkits but nothing like the malware on Windows. *nix users don't tend to run any real-time scanners, so that must tell you something.

    installing Linux is abit easier then a Windows install, it's also quicker and without all the reboots. the system is secure (after updating the OS which should be automatic) straight away.

    once you have got your system setup you don't have to worry about defrags, folder cleaning, and the other maintenance things you'd do with Windows.

    people have problems installing software on Linux but that's only if you are compiling from source. about 50% of the time the program will compile without errors. that might sound bad until you find out about package managers. PMs will install software, which includes finding and installing any dependencies you might need, for you.

    the Ubuntu package manager (taken from Debian) is one of the main reasons i'd recommend Ubuntu over other distros, it's called Synaptic. it has far, far more packages then any other - atm i have 18,000 packages in Synaptic. so all i have to do to find, then install, a new program is - launch Synaptic, do a search, read through the descriptions of the results, then click a couple of buttons to install.

    the other problem people have with Linux is hardware manufacturers only making sure their hardware works with Windows. that's no fault of Linux. that's why livecds are so useful. you can try out a livecd first.
     
  20. crofttk

    crofttk Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2004
    Posts:
    1,976
    Location:
    Eastern PA, USA
    Yes, at least for XP, it's called the recovery console and it is contained in the Windows XP install CD. However, for the average user it's crrrrrrrrrap. You can do some powerful things in recovery console and you can do some things to make it more useable (permissions and so forth) but it's nowhere near the rescue CD you can build with something like Bart PE.
     
  21. iceni60

    iceni60 ( ^o^)

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2004
    Posts:
    5,116
    you can do everything with a GUI on Ubuntu if you want, you don't ever need to use the CLI if you don't like it. the Windows GUI is boring, you can have either Luna or Classical. with Linux you can change the look of the GUI to however you like. not only that you can have different Windows Managers and/or Desktop Environments too

    Businesses have Business licences, they have 24 hour support over the telephone, email, remote login - whatever you want. Prices are at the bottom of the page.
    http://www.ubuntu.com/support/paid
     
  22. ronjor

    ronjor Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2003
    Posts:
    57,719
    Location:
    Texas
    Seems Ubuntu has some security issues too. As do most software operating systems.

    Linux is different, is it better? :)
     
  23. Devinco

    Devinco Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Posts:
    2,524
    Great posts everyone!

    Dr. Andrew Weil, a popular wholistic/alternative/conventional/natural healing proponent in the US, appeared on TV this year and said that learning and using a new computer operating system can help to keep the mind healthy as we age by stimulating new neural pathways. Not just trying it out, but actually working it, through the inevitable frustrations and problems, apparently that process does a lot of good for our brain. It is similar to learning a new language or learning to play an instrument. It was just his advice which has been solid so far. I don't recall if any medical studies were cited though....uh-oh....I better start learning linux! :D
     
  24. iceni60

    iceni60 ( ^o^)

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2004
    Posts:
    5,116
    they have been patched with a system update. when a security hole is found it is fixed very, very quickly, normally within hours.

    i really think Linux is better, but i personally think Ubuntu is miles ahead of anything else, i know others don't think that, it's just what i think. it's probably fair to say Ubuntu has been the most popular distro for quite some time though.

    again, this is what i think, if you have tried Linux and not liked it and you haven't tried Ubuntu, then you should give it a chance before you post saying all these things about Linux not being what you hoped it would be.

    i have had maybe 3/4 hours of frustration in total, when i first installed Ubuntu, other then that i can't fault it. if it works with your hardware then i can't see why everyone doesn't use it :cool:
     
  25. ronjor

    ronjor Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2003
    Posts:
    57,719
    Location:
    Texas
    No one ever said that. :) Using Linux as a hobbyist or as a business are two different things.

    The point is, if you are a businessman, where will you put your dollars?

    Linux may reach a point where it is a viable option for users. When that happens, you will pay just as you do for Windows don't you think?
     
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.