Leapfrog Software RSS vs Microsoft VSS ?

Discussion in 'FirstDefense-ISR Forum' started by Cloak, Dec 10, 2008.

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  1. Cloak

    Cloak Registered Member

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    Changing Open File Technologies - https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=165273

    This confuses me. I don't quite understand the additional features that VSS has. Requesters and writers? Flushing buffers to disk?? What the is all this? Should I be concerned?

    What kind of data/intentions should I have where I would want to take advantage of VSS? What kind of users is VSS aimed at? How much more beneficial are these additional support features that VSS have over RSS?

    I'm guessing that FirstDefense-ISR uses the Leapfrog Software RSS as the default OFT? Does RSS adequately satisfy general use? Or should I switch to VSS because of it's additional features that I may never use
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2008
  2. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Hi Cloak

    Leapfrog is actually recommending you use VSS. I use it and it's fine. Part of the OS.

    Pete
     
  3. jwcca

    jwcca Registered Member

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    I assume that VSS was used due to a recent fresh install of XP-Pro SP3. I installed FD-ISR 3.31.233 as soon as I had installed XP. I then installed other things and made snapshots and archives OK. Recently I had a problem which was "Unable to create a static copy of active snapshot". I checked this forum, saw the sticky, installed RSS and rebooted. I tried again and got
    "03/07/2009 16:04:24.921 Copying snapshot "TT01_XPSP3_05" to "TT01_XPSP3_06"
    03/07/2009 16:04:24.921 Starting Open File Technology (RSS) service for drive C:
    03/07/2009 16:04:24.953 Error - Can't communicate with RSS driver. Not installed?
    03/07/2009 16:04:24.953 No files copied or deleted; Errors 1; 00:00:00.031"
    I then installed the VSS, thinking that would solve the issue, but it still has the RSS message every time.
    I can copy any other non-active snapshot.
    Is there something that I should look for in some Windows settings? I've installed everything suggested on Windows Update.
    The two MS Shadow Copy services are running. I can't see any RSS service and I don't know how to check if the RSS driver is installed.
    Thanks for any help you can give,
    Jim C.
     
  4. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Hi Jim

    If you uninstall and reinstall FDISR it should be using VSS. If you switch, use the procedure in the sticky about changing open file technology.

    If the change procedure doesn't work, I'd try the uninstall reinstall route.

    You don't need to be concerned with the techno bable.

    Pete
     
  5. jwcca

    jwcca Registered Member

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    Hi Pete and thanks but I found the real problem and it's a nasty one, but fixed by restoring an archive before the nasty was installed.
    The sneaky nasty story follows:
    I downloaded a *purchased* Upgrade from NTI Shadow 2 to Shadow 4. It would only Upgrade from Shadow 3. NTI had to make a full install (73MB) available, and I was using dial-up. It wouldn't install properly into W2K, it needed a dll only in XP and higher, so computer is "left hanging", Ninja not installed due to errors.
    After I installed XP, the application installed both Shadow and Ninja, but quietly and surrepticiously attached a Ninja driver to the Sony USB diskette and something else? Whatever, this then prevented FD-ISR from using VSS to create a static image of the Active Snapshot. I tried switching to the RSS version but it still wouldn't work. It's now obvious that "smething Ninja" was interfering.
    Ninja was a "freebie" to allow encryption of USB sticks. It may even think that it's supposed to encrypt USB Diskettes. There's no useful config for this distinction to opt in/out.
    The net impact was that when I plugged in the USB diskette drive
    1) it wasn't recognized/listed in Explorer, couldn't be "unplugged safely" and the system wouldn't shutdown or restart unless I physically pulled the USB connection (first time: add Scotch to glass, 2 fingers at least, then cross 2 fingers, empty glass down throat, pull USB plug, swallow, relax).
    2) i tried to recover using FD-ISR and had the VSS/RSS problem above.
    I finally located the problem but didn't immediately realize the scope.
    I tried to uninstall Ninja but the app doesn't provide an intelligent uninstall and cleanup so using Add/Remove Programs - Shadow 4 didn't remove Ninja and it was left still being a nasty problem.
    I can think of quite a few 4 letter words but I'll keep it to a 3 letter word. BAD. A definite :thumbd:
    Since I downloaded the install file 2008-11-06, NTI may have made it better since then.
    But, treat this application with EXTREME CAUTION. The Shadow one-way works well and when I can install that without Ninja, I will use it.
    Again, thanks Pete, possibly the reinstall of FD-ISR would have fixed that part of the problem, but likely not.
    Thankfully I made the archives at strategic points so it was just a choice for the one before Ninja. My error in this story is that I didn't fully test EVERYTHING before moving on. Ninja had been installed for awhile but only became a problem when I plugged in the infrequently used USB diskette drive.

    Jim C.
    PS to Todd Thank you for FD-ISR. Could you add something to prevent or locate these nasties? Just kidding, that's my job. Jim
    Jim C
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2009
  6. TonyW

    TonyW Registered Member

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    On my system, I found VSS slower to start so reverted to RSS.
     
  7. EASTER

    EASTER Registered Member

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    I shutter to break microsoft's engineering bubble, but i also found LEAPFROG'S RSS much more reliable and definitely error-free.

    My sincere accredidations for such an advanced and IMO better alternative to VSS.

    Who in their right mind would possibly have thought to come up with another such option but Leapfrog!!

    EASTER
     
  8. ambient_88

    ambient_88 Registered Member

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    I admit that FDISR is good, but you are praising them too much. Microsoft's VSS is actually a great framework to use when backing up files. Heck, even Todd recommends VSS over RSS.

    Also, Leapfrog is probably not the only software company to have thought about an alternative to VSS. I believe ShadowProtect comes with its own Volume Snapshot Manager, which is similar to VSS.
     
  9. TonyW

    TonyW Registered Member

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    It's not the VSS technology I have a problem with; it's the initial start-up of the engine that takes longer on my system than RSS. Perhaps with more RAM and/or processing power, VSS will start up faster.

    (System = Windows XP Home, 256MB RAM, CPU 1.7ghz single core)
     
  10. Dr payne

    Dr payne Guest

    I tried using the command: cd \$ISR\$APP\Setup | ISRSetup -install –rss
    It is still stuck in VSS.
    Installed FD again, but it did not give an option to use rss.
     
  11. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    If you did it all as one command it wouldn't work, I don't think

    Do the commands individually and it should work. You do have to reboot.

    Pete
     
  12. Dr payne

    Dr payne Guest

    I did it correctly. Sent the setup log to Todd, and he was puzzled also.
    It is just not taking the command.
     
  13. Dr payne

    Dr payne Guest

    Thank's to Todd, everything is good again.:)
     
  14. crofttk

    crofttk Registered Member

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    And the missing piece to the puzzle was..... ??o_O
     
  15. Dr payne

    Dr payne Guest

    HA HA. I think I found it.
    “ISRSetup -install –rss” is the command you are running. Notice the second dash in front of RSS is not a dash, it is like a extended dash. Can you run again but with the shorter dash?
    -Todd

    And I see that it was of my doing , You must cut and pasted from Wilders. I did it. Kinda funny. I corrected it at Wilders
    -Todd
     
  16. crofttk

    crofttk Registered Member

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    Hehe. Unfortunately, computers can only do what you tell them to do!;)
     
  17. EASTER

    EASTER Registered Member

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    ambient_88

    No offense taken and you make a reasonable valid point per VSS, but remember depending on the system/program a user may be operating with, the VSS could also be running other apps that require it and RSS is a very reliable alternative.

    I recall a point in time at the start when many first time FD-ISR users were experiencing errors and issues with MS's VSS, and LEAPFROG took that into consideration, not as a replacement but a useful alternative should their VSS just happen to exhibit or inhibit SOME improper expectations desired for full functionality if VSS didn't result in the workings users were expecting.

    EASTER
     
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