last volume/first volume confusion

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by billkruse, Sep 9, 2006.

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  1. billkruse

    billkruse Registered Member

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    I burn three dvds. 1st volume, 2nd volume, 3rd volume. After that Acronis asks for the first volume again. I insert it and click retry and Acronis complains that it isn't the last volume in the archive. It wouldn't be, would it, Acronis has specifically instructed that I put volume one in. What gives? This has happened a couple of times and other errors have happened other times. I'm eating DVD's and I still don't have one single backup to show for it yet.

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  2. seekforever

    seekforever Registered Member

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    I don't fool around with DVDs but here is some general information that might help you.

    Apparently TI calls each tib file in a multi-file archive a volume so if you have 3 tib files on DVD 1 (because of the way you specified you wanted the archive split) it has volumes 1, 2, and 3 on it. Volume 4, if it exists would be on DVD 2. In other words, unless there is 1 tib file on a DVD the DVD is not the same as a volume.

    TI writes out the backup archive and then after it writes the last bit of data it writes out information telling TI about the structure of the backup. You might consider it metadata - data about the data. When TI wants to perform an operation using the archive it needs the last volume data first so it then knows how to proceed with the DVD operation. This happens on HD but you don't realize it since everything is instantly available.

    There is a bug in the backup wizard that if you specify an immediate Validate after the DVD archive is created in the Options, the program will go into an endless loop. To avoid this, create the archive and then after it is done select the Validate command and do the validation outside the backup wizard.

    TI may not restore your files from DVD in a nice DVD1, DVD2, .... order. Depending on how your disk was laid-out you may do a fair bit of DVD swapping.

    When Acronis asks for the first volume try putting the last one in.
     
  3. Menorcaman

    Menorcaman Retired Moderator

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    Hello billkruse,

    The symptoms you describe have all the hallmarks of the well known bug that seekforever describes. See this previous thread titled <TI 9.0 Build 3666 Direct to DVD Imaging - Still Some Problems> for details (the bug is still present in Build 3677).

    When you restore a multiple DVD image you will need to insert the disk containing the last .tib volume first and then follow TI's prompts for subsequent .tib volume changes.

    Regards
     
  4. billkruse

    billkruse Registered Member

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    Thanks to both. Another bug? ANOTHER BUG?? Is there a releasable version of this software available anywhere? I tried putting in the last-burned DVD in first, by the way, and it rejected that too. That was yesterday. I'll try to burn a fourth set and try all of them in any order, see if anything actually works. I can't believe I actually paid for this!

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  5. seekforever

    seekforever Registered Member

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    Before you cause great financial harm to the coaster industry, try copying the contents of a DVD archive you have created to a folder on your drive (assuming there is enough space) and validating it. If you can't do that you are wasting your time until that aspect is fixed.

    IMO, the destination devices in order of "various problems" is:
    Internal HD least problematic
    External USB drive then Firewire external
    Direct DVD burning most problematic

    There is also the two-step method of creating DVDs:
    Create your archive on a HD partition, use a split size that will get at least one tib file per DVD
    Validate the archive
    Burn the validated archive to DVD(s) using Nero, Roxio or....
    Use the burning programs "verify after burning" option for increased reliability.

    I know you want it to work as advertised but sometimes you have to sneak up on it to see where any problems are located.
     
  6. billkruse

    billkruse Registered Member

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    OK, I got through. What I did, I set inCD to "do nothing".
    I set the options in Acronis so it wouldn't automatically try to validate at the end of the burn.
    Then I did the backup over three DVDs. I got a "Project successfully completed" (or some such) message - first time I ever saw that!
    Then I tried to verify. I put the last-burned in when it was asked for and Acronis said it was corrupted.
    I'd have thrown a wobbler at that point but I'm now educated enough about Acronis to realise that this stuff just doesn't work the way it's supposed to so I experimented. I closed and reopened Acronis and asked to verify the backup again. It asked for the last volume again, but I put the first one in. It had a look at it and pointed out that it wasn't the last volume, so I took the first one out, put the last one in and now it's happily verifying away.
    I hope.
    It's going to be two hours before I know if this has worked or not. If not, I'll be back tomorrow.
    Meanwhile I'll be looking for some of those Taiyo-Yuden DVDs from Japan.
    Anyone got any idea why Acronis won't even open on my 98SE machine? That's my next project...:-(

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  7. Menorcaman

    Menorcaman Retired Moderator

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    Probably due to another well known bug :p. I've provided an answer in your other thread titled <Acronis won't spawn on 98SE>.

    Regards
     
  8. starsfan09

    starsfan09 Registered Member

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    You can get TY's from www.rima.com very cheap. I would get the 8x DVD+R (T02).

    I've got to ask this though. Why would you want to use DVD's?? I use to think they were the only way, until I discovered that using External USB 2.0 Hard Drives was much better.
    Once you start using DVD's for Backups, you must consider this. When the HD you want to back up gets so much Data on it ...say 8.5gb...then you have to "Disc Span", or use Dual Layer discs. "Disc spanning" is using multiple regular 4.7gb DVD's (usually 2-3). In your case, it took 3 DVD's....so the Laser had to stop 2x while you changed the media.
    This usually results in problems no matter what program you're using.

    You can use Dual Layer discs; but however, they are expensive. Even on sale at Best Buy, you get a 20pck for $39.99. :gack: That's half the price of an External HD!!

    The benefit you gain when using USB 2.0 Externals over DVD's is this. ​


    1. The Backup process is much smoother, and faster!! The process starts, and doesnt' stop ..until it's finished.

    2. Program TI to create "Automatic" Backups. (Differential, and Incremental Backups)

    3. When you format the External to NTFS, ...the "Sky is the Limit" when it comes to the size of the TI file. TI will create 1 .TIB file - each time a Backup is made. You DON'T have to worry about the size of your HD.
    Example:: If your HD has 40gb of data, then TI will create a compressed
    17gb .TIB file(give or take), and save it to the External with no problems. Try burning a 17gb file to DVD's. o_O :gack:

    4. No having to buy regular, or Dual Layer DVD's ...which you usually throw away anyway... as you create newer backups later on. With Externals,... you just delete the file, and make a new one.

    I'm sure everyone here will agree that External USB 2.0...is the BEST way to go.
    In case you may want to know where you can get a good External HD, click HERE
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2006
  9. jelenko

    jelenko Registered Member

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    My two cents:

    The reason for using DVD's, in general, is simply the data is safe for a l-o-n-g time [hard drives have a much shorter life span and can, as we all know, die unexpectedly] and the DVD is NOT attached to the computer. I.e., if the computer is fatally damaged [e.g., big electrical surge], the DVD cannot be damaged. Any drive attached to the pc is a potential victim.
    Yes, a good surge protector is de rigur, but absolutely, positively not 100% failure proof.

    Assuming there is some critical, absolutely cannot do without data, AND you just don't want to address issues using DVD's, I would say you need at least two external drives with at least one that is disconnected after any backup process.

    Of course, even DVD's can fail => always need more than one backup - even if one is an external drive.
     
  10. starsfan09

    starsfan09 Registered Member

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    True indeed. DVD's will last forever if you take care of them. But however, I don't plan on keeping a TI Backup Image file till the year 2025. The one I have now, will probably be gone next month, and another put in it's place.

    Your fear of "electrical" surges damaging your PC can be eliminated by getting a APC Battery Backup. Plug your computer, monitor, and External HD's in the Battery protection, and you'll never lose power during bad weather, or power outages.
    When people invest money in computers, they usually never think about a Battery Backup. In my case, I MUST have one with all the Surges around here. I personally have the APC 800 which guarantees up to $75,000 money back if Lightening, or anything else... damages the electronic devices.

    http://apc.com/products/category.cfm?id=13
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2006
  11. seekforever

    seekforever Registered Member

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    I've got hard drives that have run longer than some DVDs have lasted. Just threw out 4 DVD RWs the other day that barely did 25 cycles or so.

    If I had to restore from an internal or external drive that I've been using frequently or a DVD that has been put away for a while I'd put my money on the HD for a satisfactory restore.

    Having said that there are advantages to having backups on DVD. I have my backups on a second internal drive in my machines, copied to another PC for secondary backup and selected ones copied to DVD for off-line tertiary backup. Not every backup I do goes past the second internal drive. Concentrate on multiple, redundant backups of your personal data files that you can't buy. Reinstalling XP and other commercial stuff is minor if it is lost.

    I often backup and restore when testing software so I can put the entire partition back to exactly what it was before testing. I would never, ever use DVDs in that role because they are way too slow and a real pain if you span more than one DVD.
     
  12. shieber

    shieber Registered Member

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    I'm pretty sure that INCD must be unloaded or at least set to DoNOthing for the ATI CD/DVD drivers to work properly.

    sh

     
  13. billkruse

    billkruse Registered Member

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    I succeeded in the end, got a backup that verifies, thanks to you all, and no thanks to Acronis for selling software that quite clearly shouldn't be on the market yet.

    BB
     
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