Kerio and ZoneAlarm -- don't like one another.

Discussion in 'other firewalls' started by Butters, Feb 3, 2005.

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  1. Butters

    Butters Registered Member

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    Well, my system was running great until I started reading this forum and felt that I needed to change something. I decided to try Kerio out, and despite warnings that I had "ZoneAlarm installed", I proceded to install it anyway. I figured it was just a test, what could it hurt? I was planning on shutting down one when the other was running anyway. Bad idea, now I am headed for an inevitable clean install of Windows. Whatever it did it must have somehow messed up my registry, because now my system hangs on startup and I can't seem to run my antivirus (despite reinstalling it several times). "There is a problem communicating with the NOD32 kernel." This is after uninstalling Kerio. I did an online scan with Trend Micro, and it didn't turn up anything. Once I get Windows initialized everything seems okay, but there are some serious lingering problems. The two firewalls don't play well together, heed the warnings.
     
  2. ronjor

    ronjor Global Moderator

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    If using XP, restore to an earlier time. If you get a NOD error, restart the computer or try updating NOD.

    Kerio should be removed before installing any other firewall.
     
  3. Butters

    Butters Registered Member

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    No, whatever happened messed up NOD32 pemanently. It won't run even after I reinstalled it. I have downloaded new setup files, doesn't matter, it simply won't work. System restore has never been very reliable, and I can't spare the room on my laptop so it is turned off. My OS is on it's own partition, so clean installing isn't a big deal. I have it set up that way with that in mind. I've always felt that if something goes wrong it is faster to reinstall the OS than to try to find the problem.

    Kerio was added, not ZoneAlarm. I should have removed ZA, but Kerio was the trial, and frankly I shouldn't have too. That program is a mess. I wasn't impressed with Kerio, especially after the app controls in their default settings wouldn't let Windows shut down. It kept popping up messages and blocking the shutdown process. As a firewall it is okay, but the app controls are overboard. They don't even interact properly with the operating system.
     
  4. Diver

    Diver Guest

    Sorry you had a problem with Kerio. More likely than not the strange behavior of the app controls is related to the failure to remove ZA before installing Kerio. Kerio is reasobably popular (but no where nearly as widely used as ZA) and the problems are few.
     
  5. ronjor

    ronjor Global Moderator

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    You're talking about Kerio 4.xx I suppose. I will agree it is a mess. I use 2.15.

    Zone Alarm is another story.

    Regardless, two firewalls are not a good idea.

    If you can, uninstall NOD, delete the Eset folder in Program files, and try a reinstall.

    You might want to run scandisk and check for errors.
     
  6. Kerodo

    Kerodo Registered Member

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    I have that same philosophy myself. I have everything important on a separate partition, and when necessary, I don't mind doing a clean reformat and reinstall of the OS. Takes a few hours and then it's brand new again.

    Rather than spend hours trying to figure out the problem and seeing if it can even be fixed, I just reformat. Then you know everything is clean and fresh.

    I do it frequently here since I spend a lot of time playing with a lot of software and firewalls.
     
  7. no13

    no13 Retired Major Resident Nutcase

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    Wouldn't YOU like to know?
    sorry for "butting" in...
    Zone Alarm's true vector unloads Kerio 4x forcefully from the RAM. It's an UNFIXABLE conflict. I think Zone Labs did this purposefully. So I dumped ZA. You can just as easily dump Kerio as well. They're both screwed up relics.
    Tried Tiny yet? or Outpost?
     
  8. Kerodo

    Kerodo Registered Member

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    no13, Have you tried the new Tiny 6.5 yet? I haven't made up my mind yet whether I like the new interface better or not...
     
  9. Can't tell

    Can't tell Guest

    Hi:)
    I do the same... But I don't like spending hours reinstalling.... So I just spend a few minutes using Powerquest's Drive Image.
     
  10. Kerodo

    Kerodo Registered Member

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    That sounds like an even better way to go... :D
     
  11. Butters

    Butters Registered Member

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    Kerio warned me about "conflicts", I just didn't listen. I wish they had said, "irreversible problems will occur." I figured they couldn't be run at the same time, what I didn't realize is that they can't be installed on the same machine, period. What a mess, Kerio immediately started to go haywire, so I shut down ZA. I was able to use Kerio with ZoneAlarm off, but when I tried to boot the next day I discovered that something was wrong. I had to boot into safe mode, but XP wouldn't let me remove Kerio in safe mode. I had to find a way to get it to boot normally -- which it doesn't want to do -- so that I could remove Kerio. That meant shutting down almost all of my startup software, and uninstalling some other software, including my anti-virus. It must have somehow messed up my registry and my AV. If I hadn't had two successful anti-virus scans with two different products I would swear it was a virus.

    I have tried Tiny and Outpost. Outpost was really confusing to me, but that was well over a year ago. I didn't use Tiny long enough to get a feeling one way or another. I actually really liked Kerio, but there were two things I didn't like. One was that there didn't seem to be a rule in the default configuration preventing local or Internet servers (and I didn't know how to create one). The other was that the application controls seemed really aggressive.
     
  12. BlitzenZeus

    BlitzenZeus Security Expert

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    ZA is one of the biggest known offenders, and its your fault for running both at the same time. You cannot fully know how a firewall is going to work with another software firewall installed as they are both fighting for the same information and control, more than one WILL CAUSE CONFLICTS, PERIOD.

    Too many people who still have ZA installed, and incomplete ZA uninstalls causing problems with other firewalls installed at the time.

    NEVER RUN MORE THAN ONE 3RD PARTY SOFTWARE FIREWALL
     
  13. no13

    no13 Retired Major Resident Nutcase

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    Wouldn't YOU like to know?
    If this was a part of a "web constitution', I'd be in jail ...
    I run 6 firewalls [at least 3 in RAM at the same time]
    Haven't noticed ANY conflicts yet [except ZA and old beta of Jetico]
    Maybe its because they were all using different techniques?


    Caution: I wouldn't advise you to install concurrent firewalls either. It can easily DESTROY your PC ... registry, conflicts, driver problems... including [unconfirmed] hardware corruption.
     
  14. no13

    no13 Retired Major Resident Nutcase

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    Wouldn't YOU like to know?
    Kerodo...
    nope, haven't tried 6.5... I've downloaded it though.... after Jetico's betas... I'm scared of the new BETAs :ninja:
     
  15. Butters

    Butters Registered Member

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    Seriously, me too. Never six, but frequently two, but only when I am trying out a new one. I am always experimenting. I will still do it even after that experience. I am fully aware that it was my fault, although it is clear that Kerio knew the dangers, they should in my opinion be more forthright about the issues. If I had Kerio installed and added ZA I would say the same thing about ZA.

    Running multiple firewalls is very informative (this was no exception). For instance, there doesn't seem to be one of them that doesn't phone home without your knowledge, but you wouldn't know that unless you installed a second firewall. ZA is guilty of it, so is Looknstop. I didn't have Kerio up long enough to find out -- I'm sure all of them do it. The second firewall lets you know what the other firewall is up to.
     
  16. no13

    no13 Retired Major Resident Nutcase

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    Wouldn't YOU like to know?
    your second firewall could be a freeware app control firewall...
    Here's a link
     
  17. Kerodo

    Kerodo Registered Member

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    Well, I hear it's maybe going to be released within the next week, so I may try it when it comes out. I liked 6.0 quite a bit. :)
     
  18. Butters

    Butters Registered Member

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    The problem of course is who is watching the second firewall...

    No13,

    Thanks for the links. Unfortunately one is for the Mac and the other doesn't support XP. If someone comes out with good application control software I will be all over it. The problem is that none of them do a good enough job of dealing with the real risks, application behavior. It is nice to know that some process is running, but what I want to know is what it is doing. Is it accessing files, reading, writing, starting other processes, communicating with other program or the Internet? That's what I want to know.

    I am of the "best in class" school of thought. I want a firewall to be the best firewall out there -- and nothing more. I don't want it blocking cookies, or ads or scanning for viruses. I have a an antivirus program to do that. I want to set things up ONCE. When a website stops responding, I don't want to traipse through five programs trying to figure out which one of them is stopping an image from loading. One program, one job. Since ZoneAlarm was my first experience with application control I trust it to do that, but the love affair is coming to an end. As soon as a company decides they want a bigger piece of the pie, along comes the redundancy and the bloat.
     
  19. no13

    no13 Retired Major Resident Nutcase

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    Wouldn't YOU like to know?
    Huh? Did you read the entire thread? There's some decent appcontrol there. Maybe not enough to bock leaktests, but pretty decent app control.
    Armor2net. Kerio 2. Kerio 4. a-wall. Outpost Pro. Sygate Free/Pro. F-secure firewall. TPF. Jetico PF. Look n Stop.
    Tonnes and tonnes there. [I never mention ZA/NIS. It's been way too many bad experiences for me]
    Then you MUST be a Tiny Firewall addict, just waiting to be introduced. ;)
    Have fun.
     
  20. Diver

    Diver Guest

    Just for fun, I put a-wall on my old slow test machine. Uses about 3 to 6mb, depending on what portions of the interfacehave been used. Application control is basic. No control over specific ports, but it is possible to specify several different zones. By default, ports 137-139 are open. I hope to just the lan, but I don't know for sure.
     
  21. Kerodo

    Kerodo Registered Member

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    I think most of them open up 137/138 to the internet to specific address supplied by your ISP, but I'm not sure.. I'm not too familiar with NetBios...
     
  22. no13

    no13 Retired Major Resident Nutcase

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    Wouldn't YOU like to know?
    I think i mentioned tat in the other thread, but i guess I wasn't as clear. [but i wrote longer posts ;)]
     
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