Judge:FBI can Hack a W/O Warrant Cuz Hackers Do All the Time

Discussion in 'privacy general' started by hawki, Jun 24, 2016.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. hawki

    hawki Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2008
    Posts:
    1,957
    Location:
    DC Metro Area
    "Judge Says FBI Can Hack Computers Without A Warrant Because Computer Users Get Hacked All The Time....

    In his opinion The Judge held that:

    “ ...'It seems unreasonable to think that a computer connected to the Web is immune from invasion,' Morgan, Jr. adds. 'Indeed, the opposite holds true: in today's digital world, it appears to be a virtual certainty that computers accessing the Internet can—and eventually will—be hacked,'

    ...and then points to a series of media reports on high profile hacks. He posits that users of Tor cannot expect to be safe from hackers..."

    [i.e., There is no "Reasonable Expectation of Privacy" on Tor or The Net. Thus, the predicate for Fourth Amendment protection is lacking.]


    https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20160624/05351534808/judge-says-fbi-can-hack-computers-without-warrant-because-computer-users-get-hacked-all-time.shtml?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+techdirt/feed+(Techdirt)

    This case has the potential for staggering and far-reaching implications, such as the Fourth Amendment "right" to privacy does not apply to the net or PCs connected to it.

    [The ruling comes from The Senior Judge of The United States District Court for The Eastern District of Virginia. While potentially a lead, trend-setting case, it is currently not-binding precedent outside of that Court's jurisdiction and could be reversed on appeal, if one is filed.

    Federal District Court's are the "lower courts" in the Federal Judicial System where cases are initially filed and where trials take place. The ruling can be appealed to The U.S Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit. However, that District Court is highly respected and historically highly significant. Being located in Alexandria Va., it has been a frequent venue for many of the most serious cases respecting National Security Issues.]
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2016
  2. Minimalist

    Minimalist Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Posts:
    5,078
    Following this logic FBI can also break in homes without warrant since people get broken into their houses all the time?
     
  3. hawki

    hawki Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2008
    Posts:
    1,957
    Location:
    DC Metro Area
    Yeah. As I said - "staggering implications." Though I suspect the Federal Courts will find a way to limit it's application. (From My Keyboard to God's Ears.)

    I have personally not yet read through the entire Opinion, and The Judge's ultimate ruling is based on a complex analysis of prior cases, so hopefully it may be somewhat more limited than it first appears. But the ultimate holding of the case and language set out in the OP is abundantly clear.

    Perhaps because the case involved kiddie porn, something considered akin to "a crime against humanity", and rightfully so, the Judge felt compelled to stretcth a bit.

    I believe this ruling will at best be limited to hacking and the net. Ask yourself, with what you know of state surveillance and ever increasing sophistication of cyber-criminal syndicates, do you REALLY expect that your PC and internet communications are "private." They should be but are they?

    This ruling is a double edge sword. A warning to all that the internet and PCs are no longer secure so watchout what you do and say. But in doing so, at the same time limits the First Amendemnt protection of Free Speech and Freedom of Assembly.

    "What a Wonderful World"

    George Douglas and George David Weiss,
    First recorded by Louise Armstrong, 1967
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2016
  4. hjlbx

    hjlbx Guest

    Really ?

    The FBI can enter my abode if I leave the front door unlocked. If they did so without a warrant in order to search & seize, then it would be an unconstitutional search & seizure - and disallowed by the very same judge that made the above ruling.

    So much for the U.S. constitution...
     
  5. Anonfame1

    Anonfame1 Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2016
    Posts:
    198
    This is how it goes. Its similar to how corporations argued that they had the rights of people according to the 14th amendment. It wasnt ever formally agreed upon- a court recorder placed his opinion that this was the case in notes on the court records, and by 30 years later this had become basically law. Of course they dont have any of the ramifications of a person- you cant jail a corporation (and now we cant revoke its charter either), and the monetary penalties generally are outweighed by the profits made from breaking the law in the first place. A corporation will follow the money every time.

    Anyways, similarly, this will be referenced again. Perhaps restrictions will be placed upon it, but the precedent will have been set. Thats all it takes. Eventually it becomes accepted as the rage of the people calms and they forget, and then eventually its yet another gross violation of personal rights the founders of the US wanted to protect. This is happening worldwide though, so it isnt solely a US problem...

    The human mind feels emotions (happiness, sadness, outrage, anger, etc etc) in response to its physical and social environment; logic is the tool we use to create, destroy, or modify a state of our environment. Time sees our mind equalize neurochemical levels where we end up at a neutral emotional state again- so we need new shoes to make us happy, or a new crisis to be outraged- we dont stay fixed in one emotional state. When these egregious situations happen, the people feel and respond but eventually the neurochemical extremes subside, and thus the memory fades. That is why these kinds of gross violations on personal rights get worse- we havent evolved enough considering the long game. Were still used to living in the moment with our spear and the animal we are hunting, or on dealing with the animal hunting us.

    I mean think about it- if you had told americans in 1996 that they would witness the world trade center towers collapse, we would invade two countries, we would be trillions in debt, the stock market would collapse, the Patriot Act would pass, housing prices would plummet, the NSA would be spying as it is, etc etc- they nearly all would have said "ok dude- go grab your tinfoil hat!" We have been CONDITIONED to accept these violations of liberty, and now its the new normal. Frog slowly boiling to death..
     
  6. lotuseclat79

    lotuseclat79 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Posts:
    5,097
  7. hawki

    hawki Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2008
    Posts:
    1,957
    Location:
    DC Metro Area
  8. hawki

    hawki Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2008
    Posts:
    1,957
    Location:
    DC Metro Area
    The ruling does not say that. But if taken to it's illogical conclusion it might lead to that. (Highly doubtful.)


    [BTW: Our Constitutional Rights have been slowly eroding for the past 14 years.

    For example, herewith a statement made by Supreme Court Justice Sotomayor in her dissenting opinion in a case decision issued just this week:

    "“The Court today holds that the discovery of a warrant for an unpaid parking ticket will forgive a police officer’s violation of your Fourth-Amendment rights,...

    This case allows the police to stop you on the street, demand your identification and check it for outstanding traffic warrants — even if you are doing nothing wrong,...” *

    "“By legitimizing the conduct that produces this double consciousness, this case tells everyone, white and black, guilty and innocent, that an officer can verify your legal status at any time,' Sotomayor wrote. 'It says that your body is subject to invasion while courts excuse the violation of your rights. It implies that you are not a citizen of a democracy but the subject of a carceral state, just waiting to be cataloged.' ” **

    * "http://billmoyers.com/story/sonia-s...-explains-whats-stake-police-dont-follow-law/

    ** "https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/06/22/in-her-passionate-dissent-on-race-and-police-misconduct-sonia-sotomayor-spoke-for-plenty-of-americans/
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2016
  9. zapjb

    zapjb Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2005
    Posts:
    3,522
    Location:
    USA - Back in a real State in time for a real Pres
    Two wrongs do make a right!
     
  10. ronjor

    ronjor Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2003
    Posts:
    57,779
    Location:
    Texas
    Headed off topic. Thread closed.
     
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.