Jetico Personal Firewall

Discussion in 'other firewalls' started by Kerodo, Sep 2, 2004.

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  1. SSK

    SSK Registered Member

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    And give an config panel to uncheck windows services you don't want to call out. I think that way you can have easy use AND good controll.
     
  2. hojtsy

    hojtsy Registered Member

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    I am sorry for the avarage Joe, but he already have many other firewalls to choose from. There is no real benefit in making one more. Please don't make every firewall for the avarage Joe! There are some knowledgable users out there who don't like their hands bound by an oversimplified option set.
    -hojtsy-
     
  3. Diver

    Diver Registered Member

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    I don't think it is a matter of calling out that needs to be eliminated, just network access which is simply checking to see if the network is there. Calling out is a separate rule, so there would be no need to have a separate opt out check box.

    They may get around to simplifying things. It seems that in the last few releases they have been concentrating on getting the bugs out of the engine. I have noticed only two usability changes, the larger fonts in the rule editor, and the less important auto best fit option.
     
  4. dukebluedevil

    dukebluedevil Registered Member

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    I totally agree with you! Most average Joe users are probably not going to know how to create rules anyways, so you would have to create a really dumb-downed user interface just so that they can figure things out. Which would likely just add bloat and alienate the more advanced users since they would more than likely have to go through even more steps just to get things done. Just look at Kerio for example and what they did with Kerio 2.1.5 to Kerio 4. Now that being said the interface could be improved a little, especially the rule editor window. But nothing drastic needs to be done in my opinion. For example the rule editor window could be made better by just simply removing the tree structure in it. The main configuration tree structure can be made more manageable and easier I have found by just removing for instance tables that aren't needed such as web browser, bittorrent, mail, and block/trusted zones. I would rather see them spending there time on more important issues such as improving the stateful inspection, adding password protection, and the many other minor improvements talked about already.


    Another thing they might want to think about adding is a rule at the top of the System applications table of "Ask" so that people have the ability to turn off/on the System applications access to network table. That way if people don't want to see constant popups for applications they don't have to.
     
  5. Kerodo

    Kerodo Registered Member

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    The interface wasn't really a problem for me either, but I can see where it might put off some people upon first inspection. I'm thinking of how clear and easy to use Kerio 2.1.5 is compared to JPF. I believe that it is possible to have an intuitive interface like Kerio's and still allow access to advanced features as well.

    It's not a big deal though, for me anyway. I think Diver is right about the annoyance factor on all the popups, and perhaps that's more important..
     
  6. Kerodo

    Kerodo Registered Member

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    I like the auto best fit option. It was annoying as hell to me to have to hit best fit almost every time I changed views...
     
  7. SSK

    SSK Registered Member

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    You're right. Misunderstood the earlier posts...
     
  8. harrywong

    harrywong Registered Member

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    I think the average person who really doesn't understand or really doesn't care about network security will just stay with the XP firewall and leave it at that.

    I guess on the market now are 3 tiers of Firewalls- No brainer ones like XP FW and Norton, Moderate input like Jetico and LNS, and than Pro apps like Checkpoint. And I think that people will naturally fall into getting what they need. The one with no experience/knowledge/interest in network security won't really seek out a firewall , so they'll stay with either XP FW or a heavily consumer advertised product like Norton. Real Pro's probably will look with disdain at a FW that won't let them configure everything themselves; and then folks like use that fall in the middle and have at least enough knowledge to give an app like Jetico or LNS a shot.

    So to me talking about the average Joe and Jetico is a futile argument- he won't be using it anyway.
     
  9. Kerodo

    Kerodo Registered Member

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    I guess I'm outnumbered on that one... :)

    I personally like it as is. I just thought that if they simplified it a little they could capture a larger market share.

    I still stick to my original idea though. There's no reason why a piece of software can't be elegant, intuitive and easy to use and yet still be extremely powerful. Kerio is one example. It's very intuitive and yet quite powerful as firewalls go.
     
  10. Honyak

    Honyak Registered Member

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    I Agree!
     
  11. Diver

    Diver Registered Member

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    I sent them an email today regarding reducing the number of user interventions. Mostly like what is in the forum above. After several days, the number of these things has slowed down. It has been almost 2 weeks since the last release. No telling what those busy bees are up to.
     
  12. Kerodo

    Kerodo Registered Member

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    Diver, what do you think of Look N Stop? I personally don't see the appeal to it like some others do, but maybe I haven't given it enough of a chance.. I know this is the Jetico thread, but I was just curious...
     
  13. Diver

    Diver Registered Member

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    k-

    I have not tried LnS. The only thing that I can safely say about it is that it seems to occupy the same space as Jetico. That is low memory footprint with application control which is not easily defeated by leaktests, and not so easy to use. Is it good? I don't know. While we hear a lot about it here due to the proximity of the support forum, its market share is less than 1%, in my estimation. Of course, I bet fewer people are using Jetico.

    You know, Jetico while good, remains a work in progress. It may take six months at their present pace of development to go commercial. As it stands now, it would only be attractive to advanced home users, a narrow market that may be enough for a small outfit like LnS, but not for a more established company like Jetico. Their BestCrypt line has a very good reputation. Right after that news on SHA-1 broke, they updated their hash algorithm to SHA-256, impressive.
     
  14. harrywong

    harrywong Registered Member

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    LNS is pretty nice right out of the box. There are a couple of advanced rulesets to make life easier, a method to start LNS as a service (very cool) and a new bets driver that took care of some SPI issues.

    Personally I flip between the 2 depending on my mood.
     
  15. Kerodo

    Kerodo Registered Member

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    I'll have to give LNS another try I guess. I had some trouble with it once (lost my internet connectivity completely and couldn't figure it out) and haven't looked at it since. I'll try it again soon, along with the new Tiny.
     
  16. Kerodo

    Kerodo Registered Member

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    That's why I think their interface could be better. They'll never gain a larger market share with it as is. People will try it, but they will conclude that it's confusing and there are too many prompts. Then they'll dump it quickly. Like you say, only the advanced home user will appreciate it.
     
  17. Diver

    Diver Registered Member

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    I am a bit more optomistic about the future. I don't think there is that much wrong with the interface. The rule editor needs a bit of help, but it does ont look like that big of a deal to me. Cutting down on the amount of user interaction will be harder, but I think it can be done. However, as things stand today, it needs more work.

    Did you find that $100 bill in the street yet?
     
  18. Arup

    Arup Guest

    Actually I don't mind the interface, the memory footprint is excellent in Jetico, if better interface comes with a big memory footprint, I guess I can learn to live with this. I also find that I get the best net speed out of Jetico as compared to Sygate and Zone Alarm. Has to be lesser overheads in the program itself.
     
  19. Kerodo

    Kerodo Registered Member

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    I wish! :D
     
  20. Kerodo

    Kerodo Registered Member

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    Don't get me wrong.. JPF is one of my favorites.. Whether it will become mainstream popular remains to be seen...
     
  21. Diver

    Diver Registered Member

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    I might add that I am glad that I am not a developer. Above I commented that the view option recently added was not too important. Someone said they liked it. It was an improvement, but it seemed like an unlikely one given some of the more serious issues.

    Every time i see a thread about potential improvements to some item of software it never fails to amaze me just exactly what folks ask for and how simple it would be to do those things within the existing framework.

    A lot of folks that post in internet forums are very technical and also very out of touch with the average person. It is not just in computer security, but in many topics that appear in forums all over the internet. These folks mean well, but are very out of touch. In the end their voices tend to drown out everything else, so things get a bit mixed up.

    I am grateful that there is a somewhat better than average balance around here, as quite a few of us remain focused on usability.
     
  22. Arup

    Arup Guest

    It would be in Jetico's interest to keep a free and paid version out there as Avast and Zone Alarm does, this way, they get the maximum feedback.

    Have tested out Jetico with almost all the scanners there on the net, passed all of them so far, the best test would be to go to a hacker forum and place a challenge.
     
  23. Kerodo

    Kerodo Registered Member

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    I wonder if anyone at Jetico reads this thread? I did mention it to them about a month ago. They are so responsive that I wouldn't be surprised if they did check things out once in a while...
     
  24. Kerodo

    Kerodo Registered Member

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    That would be good yes...
    That would be interesting.. I don't think I'd volunteer for something like that though... ;)
     
  25. Kerodo

    Kerodo Registered Member

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    Well, I'm back to JPF again. Kerio 4.2 beta 3 just came out so I upgraded and immediately started having dhcp problems using the predefined rules. Also noticed some other weird things happening with beta 2, so I removed it. Seems like Kerio fixes some things and then introduces new bugs into every release. Oh well.. Maybe some day.
     
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