Is Wifi dangerous?

Discussion in 'hardware' started by Osaban, Jun 29, 2013.

  1. Osaban

    Osaban Registered Member

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    Some frequencies for thought!

    http://www.techvibes.com/blog/wifi-in-schools-is-a-potential-health-hazard-2013-05-10
    http://www.electromagneticprotection.com/articles/wi-fi-a-dangerous-necessity/
    http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ewh-semt/radiation/cons/wifi/index-eng.php
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/askjack/2012/sep/27/wi-fi-health-risks

    As usual some people say it's an urban myth, some others it is real. The truth is there is not enough evidence one way or the other. At home I'm often lazy to plug in the Internet cable and use most of my machines on wifi, but the way I understand it the router is constantly transmitting into space whether or not there is a receiver therefore the only way would be to eliminate the router, or turn it off when not in use.
     
  2. Robin A.

    Robin A. Registered Member

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    Of course.
     
  3. Keatah

    Keatah Registered Member

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    Well.. It's a nebulous thing and full of controversy, this radiation and RF stuff.

    One thing's for sure, I feel better and more clear-headed in an ineffable and undefinable way after deactivating my wireless routers. Hard to quantify in a tiny message board posting, but cognitive improvement? Absolutely yes. You can take that to the bank!
     
  4. NGRhodes

    NGRhodes Registered Member

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    You get minimal ionising radiation and the power levels to million times less than microwaves to excite molecules, I don't even know how WIFI could be harmful to health ?
     
  5. Daveski17

    Daveski17 Registered Member

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    Maybe if a router fell on you from several kilometres up in the sky? o_O ;)
     
  6. BoerenkoolMetWorst

    BoerenkoolMetWorst Registered Member

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    I don't think WiFi it is totally harmless. Except turning it off when not in use, if your router/firmware supports it, you could enable the WiFi signal for example from 6 am till midnight so it's off when you're asleep.
     
  7. Mrkvonic

    Mrkvonic Linux Systems Expert

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    Radiation wise, no.
    But in general, anything can be dangerous.
    Mrk
     
  8. MyBlackBox

    MyBlackBox Registered Member

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    Cellphone towers are into official safety guidelines... but how these levels are calculated is a deceptive story.
    Would you like a strong signal tower in front of your house or near your children school?
     
  9. NGRhodes

    NGRhodes Registered Member

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    What have signal towers got to do with WiFi ?
     
  10. TairikuOkami

    TairikuOkami Registered Member

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    It depends on people as well, some are more sensitive than others. Generally it can cause headaches and other problems, as for cancer, what does not cause cancer these days? How could wifi be harmful? You need to ask, what is wifi? It is an EM field. Using a mobile phone for 5 min clearly shows changes in a brain, that is why scientists recommend handsfree, because even they do not know, what effect it might have. Brain just like the whole body uses electricity and EM field disrupts it. Harmful, probably.
     
  11. SoCalReviews

    SoCalReviews Registered Member

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    In the room where I use my computer I had two routers of the same model wall mounted near the corner of the room. They were at eye level five feet (or about 1.5 meters) to the left of my computer desk where I sit. I was broadcasting on two different 2.4Ghz channels at about 40mw each for a year with no apparent problems. I upgraded both my routers to the same model with external antennas and 80mw standard radio broadcast power. After about two months I noticed a pin needle type of sharp pain on the left side of my head above my ear and thought it was weird because I never had chronic headache like surface pain there before. I originally dismissed it as maybe a minor nasal and ear related infection possibly from a cold. The pain continued for a few months into the winter season as I sat at my computer desk more often during those months.

    It seemed like the sharp pain inside my head at that point seemed to be getting worse and it aggravated me more frequently. I began to wonder if it could be related to the wireless routers broadcasting in such close proximity to where I sat at my desk. I turned down the broadcast power on one router from 80mw to 20mw and from 80mw to 60mw on the other. After a few weeks it seemed I noticed less pain on that side of my head. I turned the second router's 2.4Ghz broadcast power down to 40mw and after a few weeks I no longer noticed the pain. Later I ended up moving one of the routers to another room using Ethernet cable and I bumped the power back up to 80mw. The router in my room still broadcasts at only 20mw. The sharp painful headache near the surface of my head that was facing that corner where the routers had been mounted has not returned.

    Looking back at this experience I realize it could have been a complete coincidence that I happened to have a sharp pain in my head at the exact point facing the routers that were wall mounted five feet in line of sight from my head. I also realize that there is a good chance I did experience some effects from the 2.4Ghz broadcast frequencies. 80mw is not not that much radio broadcast power. Cell phones broadcast with a much stronger signal strength but they use different frequencies (1.9Ghz and lower). From what I read 2.4Ghz is the same frequency that microwave ovens use but with over 1000 watts of power. The 2.4Ghz frequency band has a tendency to heat up water molecules which is why they use it for cooking. It's difficult to say if this was why I was getting the weird feeling sharp headaches but I have no desire to go back to having two wireless routers broadcasting at 80mw that close to me again.

    My suggestion would be that if you are going to have routers in close proximity to your body in a room where you spend more than eight hours a day then if possible turn down the broadcast power to 60mw or less. If your router is located in another room that you don't spend much time in then 80mw or more is probably going to be ok as long as you have enough distance between your body and the router. Whenever possible don't use the 2.4Ghz band but use the 5Ghz band instead since it is probably a much safer frequency for the human body to absorb and it doesn't have the same effect of heating water molecules the way 2.4Ghz does.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2013
  12. Osaban

    Osaban Registered Member

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    Wow, your experience is certainly a wake-up call about lots of things we take for granted. May I ask you why were you using two routers in the same room? Furthermore can one regulate broadcast power in every type of router?
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2013
  13. MyBlackBox

    MyBlackBox Registered Member

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    Nothing, misunderstanding was my fault. :D
     
  14. Keatah

    Keatah Registered Member

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    Wi-Fi is in the microwave band. Cellphones are just below the microwave band. It's a no brainer that it's best to limit and avoid exposure.

    It doesn't take millions of dollars and research to tell you so either. It isn't rocket science!
     
  15. SoCalReviews

    SoCalReviews Registered Member

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    Answer to your first question...I had DSL and cable internet connections going into the room where my desktop computer is located. The most convenient place to have the routers was in the corner and wall mounted next to the DSL and cable modems. It's about three feet from my desk and 4-5 feet from where I sit. Many people put routers on their desk next to their monitor. Many wireless routers don't default at 80mw but default to 40-60mw. One router broadcasting 2.4Ghz band at 80mw might not have been a problem. Having two routers with external antennas broadcasting at 80mw on two different channels in the 2.4Ghz band at a line of sight distance of 4-5 feet from where I sit for up to eight hours a day could be a problem. The sharp needle pain just below the surface but on the outside of my head was something that gradually came on during the weeks and months after I changed to the newer routers with the 80mw broadcasting. When I suspected that the 2.4Ghz wireless broadcasting might have been the source of the problem I simply turned down the 2.4Ghz wireless broadcast power for those routers. Within the next days, weeks, month the pain seemed to fade away to the point of not being noticeable.

    It was either a strange coincidence caused by some other condition (for example...an ear infection in that one ear that I didn't realize I had but suddenly went away at the exact time I turned down the power on the routers...or something else, etc.) or the pain in my head was in fact caused by the 2.4Ghz broadcasts from two routers. I don't ever remember experiencing that kind of feeling above my ear and near the surface of my head ever before and that kind of pin needle pain has not returned since this incident. I would recommend everyone to be careful not to place 2.4Ghz wireless routers too close to where you sit for long periods and if possible put them in an area or other room of your residence where you don't spend as much time. Use the 5Ghz band when you can and preferably run Ethernet cable instead of using wireless.

    Answering your second question...Many brands let you regulate the wireless radio broadcast power. Most use a default of between 40-60mw. Some use the default at 80mw. There isn't much difference between 60mw and 80mw but having two routers broadcasting on different channels in the 2.4Ghz spectrum at 80mw or greater obviously could be a problem if you are sitting only 4-5 feet away for up to eight hours a day for a few months. This was really not a good experience at all for me. The pin like needle pain on that side of my head that crept up over the weeks and months really made me wonder about my health. I had no idea at first what was causing it. If the wireless radios caused this pain on the side of my head then you really have to wonder how much all the environmental electronic noise that we are experiencing all the time in our world is effecting our brains, bodies, nervous systems, cells, DNA, etc..
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2013
  16. SoCalReviews

    SoCalReviews Registered Member

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    When I first started noticing that pain it didn't feel like any kind pain I remember experiencing before in my life. It was sort of an infrequent pulsating pain above and forward of my ear and just below the surface. This location on my head happened to be in line of site to where the routers were mounted on the wall. It was as if little tiny pins were poking between my skull and the skin on the side of my head. The feeling would come and go with a pulsating wave like sensation. The pulsating pin like pain would move from above the ear and then about an inch up the above that point and covering a portion of the side of my head. I thought it would go away in a few days or in a week but it just seemed to become something I noticed more frequently that increasingly aggravated me over time. Early on I even wondered whether I was imagining this or if in reality there really was a prickling pain I was experiencing. At first I dismissed the possibility of being associated with the wireless broadcasts but as the pin needle pain became more frequent my suspicions increased.

    Once again I can't say if the wireless signals were the source of this pain for sure but one would have to consider it as a strong possibility. Purposely turning the 2.4Ghz broadcast power down and then later moving one of the two modems to another room correlated directly with the pain going away. During the worst of this it was really weird and uncomfortable to the point that it's something I don't think anyone would want to experience. You have to wonder why more people don't talk about this as an issue. There are probably all types of symptoms that most people would never attribute to being related to 2.4Ghz and other frequency broadcasts that might be effecting their health. I have used a cell phone for years but I never remember experiencing any problems using them. I use the speakerphone or a Bluetooth ear piece with my cell phone when possible.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2013
  17. NGRhodes

    NGRhodes Registered Member

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    People have been known pick up radio in their fillings (so it proves it is possible for the human body to interact with radio waves), its possible WiFi could cause an effect on the human body.
    But I suspect it will be very hard to isolate and reprouce and then how they cause harm.

    Cheers, Nick
     
  18. Hermescomputers

    Hermescomputers Registered Member

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    Toronto, Ontario, Canada, eh?
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2013
  19. TairikuOkami

    TairikuOkami Registered Member

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    I solved this problem with a quantum scalar energy pendant made in Japan from Germanium. Scalar energy was studied by Tesla and Einstein, so it is no magic. It produces negatives ions, which negates positive energy generated from EM field. Mine produces 6700 units and it really adds energy, I even have problem falling asleep now. :rolleyes:
     
  20. SirDrexl

    SirDrexl Registered Member

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    Wow, I just read that post by SoCalReviews. This is something I hadn't really paid much attention to in the past. I checked my router (with Gargoyle OpenWRT firmware) to see what it uses, and found it defaults to the max, which is 27dBm (500mw!). I decided to change it to 16dBm, which is about 40mw.

    I don't know if factory firmware typically lets you change this; it would depend on the router. I remember one of the draws of open source firmware being that you could increase the transmit power. Maybe they need to reconsider making the default so high.
     
  21. roger_m

    roger_m Registered Member

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    I just purchased on too. I'd never head of them before.
     
  22. SweX

    SweX Registered Member

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    Sounds interesting....
    http://www.goingscalar.com/quantum-scalar-pendant-faqs/scalar-energy-fir-negative-ions-germanium-101

    But I wonder where from you bought yours, and wich particular model?
    Since there are so many unknown weird websites that show up when you search on stuff like this.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2013
  23. NGRhodes

    NGRhodes Registered Member

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    Your aware that these Scalar Pendants are a complete scam, a quick google and you will find out...

    Scalar energy fields is currently only a theory, the Higgs boson may be the first example.
    To actually claim there are easily observable effects on your body and environment is an absolute joke, alone that the effects of these claims are provable or not.

    Cheers, Nick
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2013
  24. roger_m

    roger_m Registered Member

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    While I no little on the subject personally, a quick Google search revealed articles stating that they work as well as articles stating they are a scam. Accordingly, I disagree with the "complete scam" part. I purchased my pendant cheaply, so if it is a scam I'm not too worried.
     
  25. NGRhodes

    NGRhodes Registered Member

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    It is a complete scam.
    They are claiming something exists when the scientists that came up with the theory for it [scalar energy fields] cant even prove exists yet !
    Then making further claims on the effects of this unproven thing, which as a result can't exist.