Is Process Guard blocking Punkbuster?

Discussion in 'ProcessGuard' started by Joliet Jake, May 6, 2005.

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  1. Joliet Jake

    Joliet Jake Registered Member

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    I played a lot of Battlefield 1942 online and had no problems.
    Since I got Process Guard I've been unable to play online as punkbuster reports the following error-'blocked O/S Privileges:4fc'

    I went to Punkbusters site and they suggest turning off anti-virus, firewall, Process Guard, one at a time to see which one is blocking it.
    The game used to work using my current anti-virus and firewall so the only new piece of software is Process Guard.
    I disabled the protection by right clicking on the icon but I still got the error message.

    My question is, does Process Guard still work even when you've disabled protection?

    Cheers.

    JJ
     
  2. gottadoit

    gottadoit Security Expert

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    JJ,
    I have never had a problem with PG when it was in disabled mode, as far as I am aware everything really is disabled and things should work as normal again

    Just on the chance that google would show something I did a search and found a thread on the the australian gamearena site that suggested one possibility might be the after effects of being infected by VX2

    Regards
     
  3. monsunami

    monsunami Registered Member

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    This is the only reason why I don't have Process Guard. Even when Process Guard is disabled, Punkbuster will not run period. Must uninstall Process Guard to play with Punkbuster. This affects Free and Paid versions.
     
  4. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Hi Monsunami

    I have a question just out of idle curiosity. What is the primary use of your computer. My computer is primarily for business, so I would never chose a game over PG. Is the primary use for you games. I know it is for a people and am just curious. Please don't infer any kind of critism because non is intended.

    Pete
     
  5. sukarof

    sukarof Registered Member

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    Punkbuster doesnt allow Processguard to be installed at all, punkbuster have blacklisted PG, my guess is that Evenbalance (makers of Punkbuster) have no clue how PG has been used to cheat in games and thats why they ban everyone with PG installed.
    see this thread:
    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=72948

    I have since the post bought a program called Firstdefence-ISR that solves the problem for me.
     
  6. Joliet Jake

    Joliet Jake Registered Member

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    Thanks for the replies.
    I've just read through all the links (and their links etc) :eek: .
    So it's a case of waiting for EB to do the job properly and not use a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
     
  7. monsunami

    monsunami Registered Member

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    Actually, I use my computer for multi-range of uses. From school work (I am a student) to gaming. There are some other security apps to use as alternatives to Process Guard. Maybe not the best but still efficient for home/school network use. Problem with Punkbuster/Process Guard issue is that Punkbuster is becoming a widely used gaming security system for almost all FPS popular titles. Although I think its a piece of junk.
     
  8. war59312

    war59312 Registered Member

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    Yeah it sucks. And no one, anyone important, seems to give a **** about it! :(

    For some odd reason I think it's never going to be fixed. Been months now and no head way at all.

    Progress Guard just lost another customer, me.
     
  9. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Hi War

    The problem is not Process Guard. I would hate to see them compromise on PG's capabilities for Punk Buster. On the other hand ask yourself what kind of responsible company devises a scheme to keep people from cheating while playing games that requires disabling any security software in this internet environment.

    Pete
     
  10. Bubba

    Bubba Updates Team

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    I can assure you the folks at DiamondCS definetly have concerns about this....and if after reading the below post by one of the important folks at DiamondCS you still have mis-givings about being a Customer....that's a personal decision you will have to make :(

    This post---> https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=394313&postcount=64
     
  11. war59312

    war59312 Registered Member

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    Sadly only DiamondCS can fix the issue. Punk Puster will not.

    So it seems DiamondCS will not fix or can not or whatever so in the end the customer looses. :oops:

    I play tons of games, avid gamer here. All use punk puster. So if DiamondCS wants to keep customers they need to work out the issue with punk puster asap which apparently has not happended and probally never will.

    It does not matter who's fault it is. It just needs to be fixed, period. And until it is DiamondCS looses as I am now using an alertiave application. And can still play my games.

    Dont think for a sec. I choose this route. I was forced into it. :(
     
  12. sukarof

    sukarof Registered Member

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    I hope DiamondCS doesnt fix this, PG is only doing its job and should do so. No game is worth lowering the security level for. I play alot of Call of Duty (punkbuster "protected") but I wouldnt want my security app crippled because of incompetent people at Evenbalance.
    Evenbalance can fix this problem easily if they want. It´s no rocket science.
    Unless, it is what I suspect; Evenbalance have no clue of how cheaters have used PG to pull down evenbalance´s pants down.
     
  13. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Hi all

    I have to agree with Sukarof. Only way Diamond CS could fix this is weaken PG. That is not in their customers interest. The fault here lies squarely with Punkbuster. Guys like you war can get them to change, but you may have to vote with your wallet. I understand why people enjoy the games, but if you chose playing games over online security that is your choice. Besides I understand Process Guard is not the only program at issue, so it isn't just Diamond CS.

    Pete
     
  14. Pilli

    Pilli Registered Member

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    In addition to what has been said above about lowering one's security - What madness prevails where one is forced to run from an admin account to run one's games? Absolutely laughable - NOT!

    Plli
     
  15. Joliet Jake

    Joliet Jake Registered Member

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    If DC work with Evenbalance then this can be sorted out.
    The guy (following one of the links) who thought that people cheating when playing games was somehow more heinous than things like trojans and viruses needs his head examined.
     
  16. war59312

    war59312 Registered Member

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    I agree completely guys but it will never be fixed if DiamondCS never takes action. Yeah I do not want to lower security level.

    The thing is why can I not just disable it or exclude PB and still play online. Simple as that.

    PB and DiamondCS need to work together to fix the problem and it just seems nothing really is being done about. Have not heard back from either in over a month. Have emailed both repeatedly. Even from different email addresses, different identity, and IP address in case they are ignoring me. ;)

    So to me it seems neither really gives a crap! :(

    "Guys like you war can get them to change, but you may have to vote with your wallet."

    Yeah but that would take a lot of people which will never happen. Seeing as what, less than .01% of the PB user-base probably even have this problem, let alone give a crap.

    So I guess I just have to come to the conclusion that the problem will never be fixed because DiamondCS and PB are in a never ending pissing match, blaming each other endlessly for the problem in the first place. :(
     
  17. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Hi War

    I feel your frustration, but frankly I doubt there is much that DCS can really do short of weaking PG to the point it doesn't allow the cheating. The heart of the problem really lies with Punkbuster. They are the ones forcing you to have to disable security programs. If they don't won't to rewrite their anti cheat stuff what can DCS do to make them. Unfortunately it comes down to your making a choice, but I do believe I offered you a solution using Raxco's First Defense. That probably is your only option at this point.

    Pete
     
  18. nick s

    nick s Registered Member

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    Hi war59312,

    Pete's suggestion of using Raxco's FirstDefense is one good way to go. Another approach would be to dual-boot between your main system and another strictly set up for gaming. My approach is to have a separate BootIt NG disk image with minimal security that I maintain just for gaming. I restore it when I want to play, and restore my main system when I'm done. I would rather put up with a little inconvenience than see PG compromised.

    Nick
     
  19. war59312

    war59312 Registered Member

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    Well I have decided to no longer be a gamer. :)

    Reinstalled PG last night. Screw PB!!!!!!!!

    :D
     
  20. Joliet Jake

    Joliet Jake Registered Member

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    Re-Punkbuster

    Has there been any update in the punkbuster problem with them having a blanket ban on anyone with Process Guard?

    I'm about to buy Battlefield 2 and would like to play online, but don't want to uninstall Process Guard.

    Cheers.
     
  21. Paranoid2000

    Paranoid2000 Registered Member

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  22. Joliet Jake

    Joliet Jake Registered Member

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    Re: Re-Punkbuster

    I thought Wayne was going to work with Evenbalance to come to some kind of solution.
     
  23. Bubba

    Bubba Updates Team

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    @ Joliet Jake,

    As you can see I have merged your other thread concerning this same matter. If and when DCS wishes to make any further comments other than what's already been said....we can then follow it one thread.
     
  24. Wayne - DiamondCS

    Wayne - DiamondCS Security Expert

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    ProcessGuard doesn't block Punkbuster, or any other software for that matter. Punkbuster does block ProcessGuard, but please respect that we (DiamondCS) are in no position to do anything about this as Punkbuster is not our software - the onus is on Even Balance (the company who makes Punkbuster) to find a solution.

    The reason why ProcessGuard has been banned is fairly simple ... the security that ProcessGuard offers is so strong that it can/has actually been used to defeat the protection Punkbuster offers (to the point where Punkbuster is effectively rendered useless), and the reason for that is because Punkbuster uses inter-process security whereby a second process tries to protect the first - this is to prevent people cracking the game in order to cheat. Some clever gameplayers discovered that they could use PG to prevent the two processes from talking to each other, effectively bypassing the protection that Punkbuster offered and thus allowing them to cheat.

    Even Balance were unable to come up with a solution (how willing they were i've no idea), so they have simply banned ProcessGuard, at least for the time being. That's the easiest and quickest thing they could've done, and I can completely understand that they used it as a temporary measure while they develop a proper solution. When I contacted Tony Ray (President of Even Balance) in February he assured me it was a temporary measure:
    However, this 'extreme' that they have taken is not fixing the problem, if anything it's creating a problem - forcing users to turn off security software just to play a game. They haven't been able to come up with an alternative, and even the blanket ban on ProcessGuard isn't a solution. Remember, Punkbusters protection was defeated simply by a security program - a program which wasn't even designed to do things like that, so if ProcessGuard was all it took to defeat the protection then clearly the protection is not very strong in the first place. Consequently it wouldn't be difficult for a software cracker to analyse Punkbuster to see how it detects ProcessGuard, and then make the necessary modification(s) (either to PG or Punkbuster) so that PG is no longer detected. It would also be fairly trivial for game crackers to write a dedicated anti-Punkbuster program which simply blocked the Punkbuster process from talking to the other process.

    In other words, ProcessGuard itself isn't the problem. The real problem is that Punkbuster can be defeated simply by preventing the protection process from talking to the other. This is a fundamental design flaw in the Punkbuster protection scheme, and that is what should be fixed if they are serious about protecting their customers software.

    Best regards,
    Wayne
     
  25. lupus

    lupus Registered Member

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    Since i installed the Battlefield2 Demo i had to uninstall PG and i absolutely do hate it, at the same time i am a gamer and if i can't play games with my PC i might as well buy a Mac or install Linux and be done with securities issues altogether.
    There must be a fellow gamer / PG user with some hacking skills that could come up with a solution to this problem........all i know is that PB detects PG even when PG is not running, maybe change the name or modify the PG driver just a bit....could someone please help out with this o_O
     
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