Inside or out?

I guess I just don't understand how TI 11 works. With my Windows XP Pro system, I used to use Symantec's Ghost to back up my system. And since XP had stuff which made it impossible to back up from within the OS, it always rebooted onto a floppy to do the BU from DOS.

My question is, how does TI 11 get a good back up from inside Windows XP? I'm wondering if using the scheduler is not the best way to back up. Rather, would it be best to use the Recovery CD to perform the backups from outside Windows?

~Dave

 

Even though you start the Backup from within Windows, the process restarts your system to do the Backup.

 

Please explain. All my backups are done within Windows; nothing gets restarted.

 

You're moving too fast today, dwnNdrty, becasue I know you know that the restores require that Windows not be operating and therefore, if started under Win then a reboot is done. But backups, even of the operating system can be done while Win is operating and that's what ATI does. It's ability to to dat was one of the things that set it apart from other image/backup programs many versions ago. Of course, now, even Ghost has goten on the bandwagon.

I don't know exactly how it's done but it's done and not an uncommon thing these days.

 

Do you know why restore requires a reboot, but the backup does not?

~Dave

 

Don't know the secrets but I would guess that for backups it implements functions much the same was a volume shadow copy does. Volume shado copy is a set of functions in some Windows OSs that allows the backup of open and locked files.

Reading a file holds much less prospect for changing or hariming any open processes, which is why I suspect that it is possible under appropirately diesgned OSs to back up an open file but not to restore one. When yo back up, yo aren't trying to change it; when you restore you might be.

 

So there is no benefit to backing up from the Recovery CD, outside Windows, as opposed to from within Windows XP?

~Dave

 

If you backup from the CD, you're running a version of ATI under linux -- this is often slower than doing it under windows--strictly a matter of the best hardware drivers are uasually written for Windows before linux. Otherwise, it shouldn't matter, except that you have to reboot to use the CD and don't if you backup under windows.

Some folks seem to suggest that somehow Windows is in a safer state if you backup from the BootCD. I've never seen any reason for this--XP and Vista allow reading open files.

 

Ok, thanks. For the time being, I will keep backing up from XP. I appreciate the information very much.

~Dave

 

My understanding (perhaps my terminology is not the best) is that when creating an image the drive is briefly locked (all activity frozen). Then a ‘snapshot’ is made at that point in time. Drive activity will then continue and the image will be created from that snapshot.

During a recovery Windows will not allow a restore of the system drive without a re-boot. See this FAQ:
http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/products/trueimage/faq/restore-system-partition/

Some folks prefer to make images using the Rescue Media CD because they feel this is safer. In my experience I’ve never had a problem using either method. In fact I schedule a full backup daily in Windows and they work just fine. You are correct that Norton Ghost prior to version 9 did require booting to DOS. That was a different technology.

 

Thanks for that link.

I noticed while reading unrelated FAQ's that the so called Scheduled Task bug is dealt with.
http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/products/trueimage/faq/scheduled-task/
But I don't have the know-how to follow the directions. Can you explain further?

Thanks,

~Dave

 

Re: Inside or out? - How it works

http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/resource/tech-talk/2003/disk-imaging-2-technology.html

Talks about how TI can image within Windows.

 

Re: Inside or out? - How it works

Wonderfully complete explanation. Answers ALL my questions in this regard. Thanks very much for this.

~Dave

 

Dave,

Regarding task scheduling in TrueImage Home v.11, build 8053 the reliability issue has not been fixed as many have reported.

Perhaps this link will provide some interesting reading:
https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=193986

 

I have followed your directions for using the Windows Scheduler. Now I wait and see. Thanks.

~Dave

 

One thing to keep in mind is that if you modify the task in TrueImage the script name will probably change. If that occurs you will need to modify the script name in the Windows Scheduled task also. This is certainly not very convenient but until Acronis gets their act together this should work reliably. The path in the Windows Scheduled Tasks must be absolutely correct. You can test it by going to the Windows task, select it and right-click on it. Select Run and it should start. If it doesn’t start look for an error in the path.

I wrote the procedure with more detail than is perhaps necessary but many of the folks that I work with need that.

 

I tried starting the task in Windows Scheduler, and it ran just fine. I printed out the procedure you wrote for future reference.

If Acronis wanted to "get their act together" wouldn't they just set up their tasks through the Windows manager instead of creating their own?

~Dave

 

Perhaps, but the procedure is more complex as you have seen. This would be a problem for people that have multiple tasks running. I don’t know if Acronis could do it. I don’t recall this being an issue with previous versions of TrueImage.

It is discouraging to note that build 8093 was posted November 7 and now three months later nothing has been updated and few issues acknowledged.

 

Sounds like the reason Symantec has gone down the tubes.The last I heard, they were on life support, with a morphine drip.

~Dave

 

Symantec support has been degrading for several years. At one time they supported a forum such as this that was very helpful. The Norton AntiVirus forum had several Symantec employees working it. I had phone calls from four of these asking if I wanted to join them. At the time I was working (now retired) and I couldn’t devote the time to it.

We will never know what the issues are here with TI. My thoughts, and it is just that, are two fold:
1. I believe the TI-11 initial release pretty well coincided with the release of Ghost 12. Could be a rush to get into the marketplace. Marketing managers don’t always listen to the technical people.
2. The introduction of Vista with its issues had to pose some challenges to Acronis.

 

Yep. Bean counters will be the death of us all.

~Dave

 

Bruce Mahnke, just to let you know the scheduled backups have been performed without fail since using your directions with Windows scheduler. Very nice. Thanks for the directions.

~Dave

 

Happy to help out. It's always rewarding to see successes.

 

Well I messed the scheduler up somehow. I had to restore an image of my OS due to playing around with a dual boot when I didn't know what I was doing.

Now the scheduled back up just says it could not run. No explanation. Even the task in Acronis had several errors and could not run even manually. I even deleted the manual task in Acronis, went back to your instructions and redid the task in Windows Scheduler. It still cannot run. Says it can't pair the script. But the new manual task in Acronis will run ok, if I go in and run it manually. So manually seems to be the way I will have to run this from now on. Crap.

~Dave

 

I find that when ATI tasks start acting up, best thing is to just delete them and recreate them. Drive changes are one of the things that seems to spook them.