HP printers start rejecting budget ink cartridges

Discussion in 'hardware' started by hawki, Sep 19, 2016.

  1. hawki

    hawki Registered Member

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    "Large numbers of HP printer owners found their printers stopped recognising unofficial printer ink cartridges on 13 September....

    HP said that during its last firmware update, settings had been changed so HP printers would communicate with only HP-chipped cartridges.

    It also said some devices already had the functionality built-in...."

    http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-37408173

    NB: These reports are from Europe. It is possible that HP's new policy would not activate in the U.S., where it could be viewed as an illegal tying arrangement under the U.S.antitrust laws,depending on the degree of HP's degree of market concentration.
     
  2. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    While I generally don't recommend the use of 3rd party ink because of inconsistencies between brands and even batches from the same vendor often does result in printer/printing problems for some (including me) users. And that can cause issues for the printer makers - at least during warranty periods.

    But still, users should have the option to use 3rd party ink, if that is their desire.

    My issue here is, according to that BBC report, HP claiming they did this to protect their "intellectual property". Now I am 100% for protecting intellectual property, but I cannot see how using 3rd party ink threatens HP's intellectual property.
     
  3. lotuseclat79

    lotuseclat79 Registered Member

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    I assume that HP meant the so-called "intellectual property" of HP ink cartridges. This is nothing more than protecting their HP cartridge market. The way they have gone about it is unusual. The usual way would be to compete on the basis of price by dropping their price to drive their competitors out of business.

    This move by HP might yet cause hardware hacks (say firmware downgrades that can resist the upgrade causing this situation).

    -- Tom
     
  4. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    I don't see how. Intellectual property (IP) is stuff like copyrighted ideas, patents, songs, software coding, books, designs, etc. They are not suing for copyright infringement.

    I can see them saying if you use aftermarket ink, you void the warranty. But to add code that blocks actual use of aftermarket ink is going too far, IMO. To me, this would be like Ford preventing your car from starting if you used a FRAM oil filter instead of a Ford filter.

    And to be sure and for the record, I am totally against counterfeit inks and cartridges too. But if that is the intent, HP should say so.

    According to the Sydney Morning Herald, HP claims,
    That's good, but I guess my problem is, if genuine ink in a genuine cartridges is able to "improve print quality, reduce mistakes, and communicate its status", then I think the product should speak for itself with demonstrably superior printouts.

    I confess, I have mixed feelings about this. With genuine ink, you can be assured of consistent quality, cartridge after cartridge, year after year. With aftermarket ink, you really do take your chances from batch to batch and from supplier to supplier - especially if you don't buy from a reputable source. And I do understand that maintaining and guaranteeing that consistency in quality costs money - and that there have been many cases of unscrupulous aftermarket ink suppliers.

    So I really don't mind paying a little extra for genuine ink. But I said a little extra, not double. :(
     
  5. Rasheed187

    Rasheed187 Registered Member

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    I also read about this, and apparently HP has claimed this was a mistake, and they will try to fix this. But I won't be buying printers from them anymore, their low budget printers have always sucked anyway.
     
  6. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    HP does not have a monopoly on poor quality low budget printers. IMO, you get what you pay for, regardless the printer maker.

    And BTW, no printer maker is happy for you to use 3rd party ink. I have no doubt they were hoping HP would get away with it so they could follow suite.
     
  7. Rasheed187

    Rasheed187 Registered Member

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    Yes I agree, I've learned my lesson, I will never buy low budget printers anymore, because they all suck. I also had problems with Brother and Epson. I currently own a more expensive Brother "all in one", and it works perfectly.
     
  8. Victek

    Victek Registered Member

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    The marketing model is selling printers at a loss and making the money back + profit over time on the ink. For that to work there has to be a way to identify ink cartridges as "genuine", and so chips are put into the cartridges that communicate with the printers. This effectively locks out third party cartridges and also prevents the refilling of genuine cartridges by monitoring the ink levels. It seems to me that it has been this way for a long time - is there some mystery? :)

    Recently an alternative has become available from Epson which they call EcoTank Supertank Printers. Basically there are tanks instead of cartridges which can be refilled. Not surprisingly these printers cost a lot more; prices for the EcoTank line start at $300 and go up beyond $1,000. If you're curious there's info here:

    http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/jsp/Landing/ecotank-super-tank-printers.do?ref=van:us-ecotank
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2016
  9. ProTruckDriver

    ProTruckDriver Registered Member

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    I have 2 HP Printers:
    1. HP Office Jet Pro 8625 - I use for official work. I buy all ink cartridges from HP when on sale, Plus I get a Military Discount.
    2. DeskJet 932C (Old but still working like new). Refill all cartridges. A cartridge which has a large ink capacity will last about 3 to 4 refills. This printer has saved me $$$ on ink and I hope it never dies. :D
     
  10. Rasheed187

    Rasheed187 Registered Member

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  11. zapjb

    zapjb Registered Member

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    I can see where HP is scrambling. When HP was all one company 40% of their profit was ink sales. Aggregating at $5,000 a gallon.

    Since I don't have any strong demands in what & how I print. I reverse picked my my printer. Not like the 1st printer I bought cause I didn't know any better.

    So I saw a deal on a Epson XP-520 aio for $50 with great reviews. Also read how 3rd party cartridges are CHEAP & work well. I can attest to that. My 1st 5-pack cost $6 otd & the 2nd 5-pack was $4. And I got a 4-pack of all black for $4.
     
  12. Cloudcroft

    Cloudcroft Registered Member

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    Zapjb, do you mind if I ask where you get your 3rd party Epson ink?

     
  13. zapjb

    zapjb Registered Member

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    eBay from sellers with 10k FB or more & greater than 99.5% rating.
     
  14. Victek

    Victek Registered Member

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    I've not actually used one and so can't recommend them, but I think it's worth keeping an eye on. Eco-tank printers may prove to be cheaper to operate over time and they should contribute less trash to the waste stream. Potential issues I see are ink contamination (users open the tanks to add ink, etc) and clogging (just like cartridges).
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2016
  15. zapjb

    zapjb Registered Member

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    Too much money for that Eco setup.
     
  16. Cloudcroft

    Cloudcroft Registered Member

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    Thanks, I'll give it a look. I've been buyiing very inexpensive 3rd party ink cartridges from Monoprice for my old Canon inkjet printer, and they work great. I'm paying a fortune for Epson cartridges for an Epson printer, so I need to find something similar for that printer.

     
  17. Victek

    Victek Registered Member

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    Yes, but that is because we have become used to printers being "loss leaders". You have to pay a more realistic price for an Eco-tank printer upfront, but actual cost to operate over time may be cheaper. One reason is you're no longer locked into using "genuine" ink - generic ink is available.

    See these:

    http://www.ldproducts.com/blog/is-the-epson-ecotank-really-worth-the-money/

    http://komonews.com/news/consumer/consumer-reports-puts-400-ink-saving-printer-to-the-test

    Note that the cost comparisons don't consider generic Eco-Tank ink refills, so the potential savings could be much greater over time.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2016
  18. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    Another problem with ink jet ink is it has a shelf life and it is not very long - especially once the container (cartridge or jar) is opened. So if you don't print a lot, having a large reservoir of ink may actually cause problems with the ink drying and gumming up the print heads, or just going bad in the jar.
     
  19. zapjb

    zapjb Registered Member

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    Excellent point. Again unless you're printing HUGE amount the $300 Eco system is a WASTE of money & can be very messy. The generic cartridges is the easiest & cheapest.
     
  20. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    I do not totally agree. The generic may be the cheapest but because there is no consistency between the generic/3rd-party brands or even any assurance of consistency from batch to batch within the same generic/3rd party-brand, only the "genuine" OEM cartridges ensure compatibility and quality printouts, cartridge after cartridge. Therefore the genuine cartridges are the "easiest".
     
  21. zapjb

    zapjb Registered Member

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    Correct they are the easiest. Not the cheapest. I'm already ahead of the game the first round of replacements saved me $90+. The printer cost $50. So no worries here.

    With some printers people buy the printer over & over again. Keeping the ink & reselling the printers.
     
  22. Keatah

    Keatah Registered Member

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    I think that the small variances in ink characteristics are acceptable for generic home printing.
     
  23. Keatah

    Keatah Registered Member

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    Why not the cheapest?
     
  24. ronjor

    ronjor Global Moderator

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  25. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    o_O I think you are missing the gist. He is saying genuine HP, Brother, Epson, etc. cartridges are not the cheapest - and that is just they way it is, always has been, and probably always will be.
     
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