How long does it take to create image?

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by dakt, Nov 15, 2006.

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  1. dakt

    dakt Registered Member

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    How long does it approxiamtely take to create a .tib image of a 34 GB partition with minimal compression?
     
  2. dheijl

    dheijl Registered Member

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    Including verification and with normal compression I can do this in about 1 hour, to an external Firewire drive.

    Danny
    ---
     
  3. dakt

    dakt Registered Member

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    A full new image of 34GB takes 1 hour with True Image Home 10?

    Are the older versions (I might need vs8 or 9 because I have XP SP1) slower?
     
  4. starsfan09

    starsfan09 Registered Member

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    The first thing I like to do when creating an Image....is prepare the HD BEFORE making the Image. The best way to do this is by running "Chkdsk", and then "Defrag" (6-7 times)
    IMO...I believe this helps the Data read more accurately, will be a smoother process, and makes a more solid --error free Image.

    Considering you do the above, and use a USB 2.0 External HD...I figure it taking about 45min-1hr to make the Image. If you verify it afterwords, it will take just as long.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2006
  5. Xpilot

    Xpilot Registered Member

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    By the time you have run CHKDSK and all those defrags you could have made the image and be getting on with something worthwile [​IMG]

    Just out of interest how often do you run CHKDSK and what sort of results do you get?
    Is running several defrags really beneficial? I have never heard of such a series as doing any good.
    Other tasks such as Disk clean up and just keeping one restore point would in MHO be of more use.

    Xpilot
     
  6. John Farrar

    John Farrar Registered Member

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    FWIW
    Since version 8 it has never taken longer than 20 minutes to backup my 60GB hd. That is either to a Freecom USB drive or now to a SATA hd. Incrementals take about 8 minutes.
    John
     
  7. seekforever

    seekforever Registered Member

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    The stats in this thread are not very good unless people specify how much of the drive/partition was actually used since TI only backs up the in-use sectors.

    IMO, the best way to specify size is to state the size of the tib file(s) making up the archive and the compression level used.

    For a rough calculation I use the value of 1min for each GB of a normally compressed archive. Validating is a little less. This is to an internal HD.
     
  8. dheijl

    dheijl Registered Member

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    To be exact: my last image was 57 GB of used data on a 80 GB hard disk, to an external 250 GB Firewire disk.

    The image including verify took 57 minutes with TI Home 10 (just checked the log).

    Danny
    ---
     
  9. starsfan09

    starsfan09 Registered Member

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    People not willing to take the time to run important tasks Before making an Image, are likely to have more problems. Preparing the HD for an Imaging process is like doing anything else in life. Gotta have a little "preparation".
    I believe making an accurate, and dependable Image of your computer Before disaster strikes......IS "worthwhile".

    I run "Chkdsk" frequently. But always run it BEFORE making an Image.
    Also, run Chkdsk AFTER Restoring an Image as well.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ***The post below is an example of running "Chkdsk" right BEFORE making an Image. Notice the Cleaning up it's doing. Had I NOT run "Chkdsk" BEFORE making this Image, ...then all this would have been included in the Image. Notice there's no bad sectors.***

    A disk check has been scheduled.
    Windows will now check the disk.
    Cleaning up 15 unused index entries from index $SII of file 0x9.
    Cleaning up 15 unused index entries from index $SDH of file 0x9.
    Cleaning up 15 unused security descriptors.
    CHKDSK is verifying file data (stage 4 of 5)...
    File data verification completed.
    CHKDSK is verifying free space (stage 5 of 5)...
    Free space verification is complete.

    72597703 KB total disk space.
    5676424 KB in 27610 files.
    8040 KB in 1995 indexes.
    0 KB in bad sectors.
    97947 KB in use by the system.
    65536 KB occupied by the log file.
    66815292 KB available on disk.

    4096 bytes in each allocation unit.
    18149425 total allocation units on disk.
    16703823 allocation units available on disk.



    After the first couple of "Defrags", it really just takes about 5-10 seconds to run Defrag afterwords....that is IF you don't install, or uninstall anything.
    To make sure Defrag has fully optimized my HD,... I usually run Defrag 2 times. Then reboot the computer, and run it 2 times. Wait a minute, and then run it 2 more times.
    After this, I Reboot with the Recovery Boot-CD, ...and make the Image.

    I also run "Disk clean up" ...Before running Chkdsk, and Defrag.
    "CCleaner" is a very good program that also cleans Trash off a computer.
    I use it all the time, and always run it BEFORE making an Image.

    Why use "Windows Restore", when Acronis is much better.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2006
  10. foghorne

    foghorne Registered Member

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    yes but this is circumstantial, anecdotal and non typical. I never run chkdsk as a rule before my many daily backups. However I do run it on a random basis every month or so. If you are trying to imply that your errors are typical then I'm sure I would have noticed a few.

    The real philosophy I think you would be better advising is run chkdsk occaisionally and escalate ones approach to running it once problems are observed. Publishing horror stories like this is a bit of a timewaster all round imv.

    F.
     
  11. starsfan09

    starsfan09 Registered Member

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    What's "circumstantial" about it?
    If you don't feel running Chkdsk and Defrag will help, then that's your opinion!
    But information about how Chkdsk, and Defrag improves performance is all over the internet. Google it.
    Here's you a link from Microsoft. They imply you should run "Chkdsk" once a week.

    What's the first tip recommended to people on this forum when having problems making an Image? Just about everyone will recommend to run "Chkdsk", and then "Defrag". So, why not run them BEFORE making an Image?? "Defrag" certainly arranges the Data on the Hard Drive in sync, and therefore...will make READING the Data a Smoother process during Imaging.

    The above LOG file is NOT a Horror story. I wasn't implying everyone's HD will look like the Log. And I didn't say it was a "Rule", or must do in order to have a good Image. I personally think it helps to Prepare the Hard Drive a little BEFORE making an Image. What I'm recommending is certainly NOT going to Hurt anyone's computer. If anything, it WILL improve performance! The outcome, is a better Image.

    The LOG is results I got back AFTER running "Chkdsk". The "unused Index entries" would've been included in the Image...HAD I Not run "Chkdsk" before making the Image. Revealing problems on a HD that "Chkdsk", and "Defrag" can help fix is certainly NOT a "time waster"!!

    You do your computer how you want. I'll do mine how I want!
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2006
  12. Doug_B

    Doug_B Registered Member

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    I prefer to make an image before running a program, such as defrag, that results in widescale shuffling / manipulation of my data, a process which increases the risk of a problem that may require data recovery.

    Doug
     
  13. starsfan09

    starsfan09 Registered Member

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    Never heard of any scenario in which anyone had to Recover their Data... from just using Defrag. Do you have any links to validate your suspicions?
    I could include many links that support "Defragging" in a very postive way.
    But you could probably find more links on the net.
     
  14. Doug_B

    Doug_B Registered Member

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    A long time ago I was running a 3rd party version, and for some reason the PC rebooted in the middle of it. Didn't lose any user data that I could tell, just some minor trouble indicated when running chkdsk afterwards, IIRC (maybe temp files?). In any case, I didn't say I didn't support defragging, as I do still use it. But it is a utility that is performing an intensive amount of reordering of data on the drive, so why not have an up-to-date image just in case? There are plenty of programs / activities performed on our PCs that are supposed to work without a hitch...

    Doug
     
  15. seekforever

    seekforever Registered Member

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    I guess this is sort of chicken or egg situation. In my previous life as a systems manager we would never consider defragging a drive until a backup had been made. When I got my first PC and wanted to defrag it, I went out and bought a backup program. To my surprise it said on the package to defrag first so it would run faster.

    Now anybody who has read some of my previous posts knows that I am not a big supporter of frequent defragging on home PCs because for what I do, I don't really think it makes much if any difference. However, not everybody does the same thing on their machine. I will also say that the only proof I accept of better performance is what you measured with a stop-watch, not it seems faster or it now says I am only 2% fragmented instead of 15%. If I was running a server farm I would have a different view on the importance of defragging.

    Anyway, as far as chickens and eggs go, I think it is very prudent to run chkdsk before a backup or a defrag. I backup before the defrag not after, each bit shuffled is a potential error and if it runs a little slower, I don't really care. After all, isn't this one reason we have TI, to provide a fallback when we make significant changes to our data structure in case something unexpected happens.
     
  16. foghorne

    foghorne Registered Member

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    I see you have got a little confused between Chkdsk and defrag. I didn't mention Defrag. I was discussing chkdsk.


    That's funny, I don't remember telling you how to do your computer. I was discussing the advice you were offering others on running theirs.

    You do your computer how you want. I'll do mine how I want! ;)

    F
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2006
  17. DVD+R

    DVD+R Registered Member

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    Starsfan09 I just looked at your CHKDSK log, and you mentioned theres no bad sectors: actually there is, only there is no data on that sector please read your log again it says 0 KB in bad sectors, the words in bold lettering sugests that the sectors are actually bad, but are not in current use :shifty:
     
  18. Howard Kaikow

    Howard Kaikow Registered Member

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    Why run defraqg morethan once.
    Get a proper defrag program such as Perfect Disk or O & O Defrag,

    DEfragging has nothing to do with accuracy, only with speed.
    Chkdsk just corrects (most) errors, but does not affect accuracy.
     
  19. starsfan09

    starsfan09 Registered Member

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    The bad sectors line is there as part of Windows. If there are software related "bad sectors" due to corrupted software (bad installation), or other errors found on the HD due to program crashes... then they will show on that line. There isn't any in the Log.



    Seek, why do think running Chkdsk BEFORE making an Image is prudent?? I've been trying to explain how beneficial it is, but apparently can't find the right words to say. :(
    I'd love to hear your explanation.



    For now, I use Windows Defrag, and feel that running it more than once does a better job. If I did use "Perfect Disk" (which I plan on test driving) ....I'd still run Defrag many times before making the Image.

    By "accuracy", ...I mean a higher successful percentage without problems, and errors. Suppose you DON'T run Chkdsk Before making an Image, and there are Errors on the HD.
    All unknown errors (because you didn't run Chkdsk)... will be included in the Image, ..right?
    That is ..IF the Image is created -- problem/error free.

    Now, wouldn't that affect the accuracy of a successful Image? I can't see how it wouldn't.
     
  20. seekforever

    seekforever Registered Member

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    We know that TI when creating an image backs up in-use sectors and bypasses the file system thus running fairly quickly in comparison to an "open the file and copy" approach. However, we do know that TI has to understand the type of partition it is accessing and certain details of the structure or else it reverts to a copy the whole partition instead of just the used sectors. In effect, it isn't just a dumb sector copy.

    We also know that TI has to have enough understanding of the data in the archive file to restore the partition particularly since the sectors are not put back in exactly the same locations they came from, ie, data from sector wxyz in the source may not end up in sector wxyz when it is restored.

    We also know from this forum that flaws in the disk structure can cause TI failures and as you pointed out one of the first trouble-shooting tools is to run chkdsk.

    Probably the most compellng rule to ensure the disk structure is in good shape before making an image is the well known: "Garbage In = Garbage Out" which pretty well summarzes what I said above.

    I don't run chkdsk before every image I make but I do try to do it every few weeks just as a general principle to know everything is working well. One of the first clues that a HD is failing is a bad sector report.

    It is both amazing and a tribute to the much maligned PC that they continue to work as well as they do with the lack of a regular physical checkup. As we've seen in a couple of threads just this week there were 2 PCs running with bad RAM which wasn't apparent in normal usage.

    If you are concerned about your system to use a product like TI then you should certainly be prepared to do some other tests like chkdsk to ensure good backups and daily data integrity.
     
  21. foghorne

    foghorne Registered Member

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    This is my approach too, and it has served me well. The other reason why I don't subscribe to unconditional chkdsking is simply that it awkward to do on the system partition with automated backups. Running chkdsk on an adhoc basis is more to do with keeping an eye on your system and understanding when it is starting to go flaky. Running it purely as a protection measure for a backup image does not get me where I want to be.

    Each to their own.

    F.
     
  22. DVD+R

    DVD+R Registered Member

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    Simple and plain answer to this, without the gobble - de - gook is this:

    Your system degrades with time, nothing can prevent that, However CHKDSK was implemented by Microsoft as a simple System Disk Diagnostic Tool, that to a certain extent can/and will check your system disks for errors and repair or replace them. Ever noticed you get an eror on screen "your system has recovered from a fatal operation" ? Thats CHKDSK working in the background.
    Now, as to this defrag before image backup business, its really quite sensical to do so,and run CHKDSK also, The simple reason is, Your system will run smoother on the Image Backup,and Also the System has No known errors on disk after these tasks have been complete. If you make an Image while your system is fragmented or has disk errors, then these errors will also be transfered to the Image. Makes Sense doesnt It!...Enough Said. :isay:
     
  23. Long View

    Long View Registered Member

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    AT the risk of falling out with the supporters of Perfect Disk and O&O ( both of which I own) I still prefer Diskeeper especially 2007 Pro Premier. Manual Defrags, if needed, tend to take a couple of seconds - an exception being when ReBuilding several gig of DVD - when it might take 2 or 3 minutes. Normally however the ongoing defrag nature of Diskeeper means that I no longer do a special manual defrag before imaging the system.

    Edit - Using ATI 10 recovery disk - time to image system disk to second disk 48 seconds - what a program
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2006
  24. starsfan09

    starsfan09 Registered Member

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    I should've really pointed this out earlier.

    Yes indeed...I always run Chkdsk, and Defrag before making an Image. But however, I only make a FULL backup Image ONCE a week,... or when I feel the need to make one.
    I don't back my system up every single day. Don't see a need to, and besides, I know everything on it. There's not one single file/folder, and program on it that I don't want on it.
    So, in my case...that would mean running Chkdsk on the 7th day. It makes sense for me to run Chkdsk, and Defrag at this time before Imaging due to the duration of time between Images.

    Now, if you're an Automatic type guy - who uses Acronis to the fullest by having it set to make "Automatic" Differential, or Incremental backups on a daily basis....then there is NO need to run Chkdsk every single day.
    As long as you don't have system errors, or program crashes all the time.....running it once a week, or every 2 weeks...would be sufficient. But however, if you experience system errors, and program crashes frequently....then run it immediately -- whether or not you're making an Image. May also check into what's causing the errors & problems, and squash it.

    For optimal system performance, and to make it easier on your HD for reading and writing...I personally like a daily "Cold Boot" Defrag when the system first boots up after being OFF all night.

    Might as well add that I'm a "Manaul" type guy. Every program on this computer that has the ability to "check for updates", or "schedule" anything has been Disabled. I Don't use "Automatic" schedules, and updates for anything at all. Everyting is done Manually.

    But all in all, ... every user has their own style and preferences. Every tip we share helps us all get better. :cool:
     
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