How I found Wilder's and why it should be proud

Discussion in 'General Topics' started by Galcoolest, Nov 18, 2004.

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  1. Galcoolest

    Galcoolest Registered Member

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    Hang with me on this, my point will be made after some set-up!

    I'd just like to say that considering the millions of websites now populating the net, when I finally got a bit more with the "security program" overall and simply held my best friend GoogleGuyGoGo's hand to confront it , I came up with only a very few, and I mean shockingly few, really reputable places to go searching for answers.

    In the immense scope of cyberspace, I was astonished at the fact that in the U.S. there may be 12 security forum sites worth a damn, and maybe 7 very popular ones , and EVERYBODY knows it!!!). [And MS's isn't one of them, if you ask me, and a lot of savvy folks agree, apparently- not to bash, but state a recognized opinion some hold].

    And as far as utility or info spots, only 60 or so at most get any truly meaningful attention, and way fewer than that the BIG NOTICE and RESPECT. And without getting into it, it's perfectly clear after some basic snooping which security freeware excels, what the other software is, etc. A person new to the "security scene" can see these facts maybe especially well, as mentioned, by the cross-referencing and citing that goes on. Just reading what folks say in the better forums... who says what about what and whom.

    I know that today a consumer is able to discern such things in large part because of the innovations of Google. The main reason Google is so fabulous and successful (and why MS is grinding its teeth as they try to break into its stranglehold) is the way in which they sort searches- not by "content" of the inquiry actually, but more by a mathematical ranking of prior hits on the same keywords. In other words, my understanding is that they created an engine wholly uninfluenced by editorialized content links and truly of the people, getting you what other people are grabbing as on point, based on the stats, and not some junior suit in SillyVal's opinion of what's relevant on a particular subject.

    The final point of all of this after that exhaustive preamble is that Google definitely spots Wilder's as one of the more well-known and established and popular security help spots. And other sites/forums refer users over consistently.

    Its reputation and position, as such, means this url deals with all sorts of issues that both members and guests bring to the table daily. It can't be easy for the admins and mods to navigate all that gets thrown in the mix every day. But they do a darn good job, and I want to commend those folks for their efforts and their valuable contributions to the knowledge and enjoyment of computing to folks like me.
    :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2004
  2. Acadia

    Acadia Registered Member

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    Ditto everything Gal said. As this site grows in membership it is all the more amazing to me how Paul and the mods have the patience and wisdom to keep things flowing as smoothly as they do. I'm sure they've got some stories that they could tell but we only see the smoothness. Great job guys and thanks for being here.

    Acadia
     
  3. still_longhorn

    still_longhorn Registered Member

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    I recognize a few names here who help out in other forums...
    Have you googled lately? Well....? The last 20 searches I did never mentioned WSF, sad to say....
     
  4. Detox

    Detox Retired Moderator

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  5. Galcoolest

    Galcoolest Registered Member

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    Thank you Detox... maybe SL needs a refresher on what he was looking for- and how to query it. Hmmm, I think "security forum" sounds pretty good, huh? Doesn't even have 'computer ' or 'PC' included, and you get Detox's results. And when I tried "best security forum", Wilders was on Page One, too. Mmmm.
    In all fairness though, 'forum' is the key here, because other sites with more generic names like PC or Security in their titles are going to get more hits because they came up first, and then they'll continue to come up first as more neophytes het the links. And MS gets high rankings obviously, as many consumers type in "Microsoft XP security" probably and off it goes to Bill's Bunch.

    The more important thing overall, and which I didn't stress as well as I might have, is the links to Wilders from other recognized and reputable sites. I wound up here because I saw the name on Google and mentioned over and over elsewhere.

    Now- links on other pages are content based- put there by an editorial judgment of the operators. Not a googling result by sheer numbers. This is true. But when a new searcher sees Wilders mentioned editorially on sites and then statistically as "a goodie to check out" according to Google- it says this is a place that out of the thousands upon thousands of web sites talking about computer security must have something to offer.

    I do have a beef or two with Wilders, which I may drum up the courage to PM some authoritiy types about, but overall I have been ever so grateful for the quick, in depth and expert help I've found here. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :cool:
     
  6. still_longhorn

    still_longhorn Registered Member

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    Unfortunately, I don't go on the net to google for forums I know that exist or chances are, I have book marked. I google for things as mundane as Bugtraq ID: 10736, CVE ID: CAN-2004-0594, CVE ID: CVE-MAP-NOMATCH, and vulnerabilities recorded by my scanner, Exploits, or even items like IBIS, Velocity, Speed Blaster, HotBar, etc.

    Now try it because that is where the real work is.... but not too many of you "security experts" know that I guess.... :rolleyes:

    Your definition of security is discussing it to death instead of finding files and patches and Demo software on its prevention, removal and patching... Security Forum indeed!

    LOL! C'mon Detox, remove this post like you usually do....
     
  7. Detox

    Detox Retired Moderator

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    No, I'd certainly rather leave this one here since you managed to not cross over any lines - and let everyone see your behavior and what low esteem you have for all the people who frequent Wilders.
     
  8. LowWaterMark

    LowWaterMark Administrator

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    Ah, well... :D

    It's truly a wonder that you read and post here since you seem to dislike this place so much. To each their own, I guess.
     
  9. Eldar

    Eldar Registered Member

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    I second that. :p
     
  10. Primrose

    Primrose Registered Member

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    I look for that stuff and more ;) ..but no use arguing about the whole thing..
    I do not search Wilders with google either.. I remember at one time Google would only show the main pages at Wilders and not the Google Dance ;) for deep spider search of posts and topic..much less word search into the posts of members. I have no idea how they have it set up now.

    It really all depends on how your let Google penetrate your Board. I am sure the Admin have it set like they want it at this time.

    What is the Google Dance ?
    http://www.google-dance-tool.com/what_is_google_dance.html
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2004
  11. Primrose

    Primrose Registered Member

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    Well i will expand on my own thoughts..


    google search on

    Flux Removal Tool
    and
    dll injection

    puts Wilders right up there on the first page and the dance is being allowed.
     
  12. wildman

    wildman Registered Member

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    :cool: I don't know about the rest of you, but all the search engines that I have used point me to Wilders when asked very basic questions about security topics. I have yet to figure out just exactly what SL considers a security topic however. If one wants a diverse opinion on computer security related matters, I know of no better to log into than Wilders. If one wants just a little silliness, Wilders has that also. This forum is a wealth of information and fun also, and I also add my thank you .

    Thanks
    wildman
    :cool: :D :p
     
  13. wildman

    wildman Registered Member

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    :rolleyes: SL: You don't need Forums, all you need is a damn good search engine.

    Wildman
    :D
     
  14. still_longhorn

    still_longhorn Registered Member

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    Funny, but I thought I did a decent living looking for solutions to security problems over the net...
    Well, Hallelujiah! Perhaps the next miracle would be a discussion of real security issues like why too many sites are experiencing a flurry of hacker attacks....
    Now this is what makes Wilder interesting!
    First sensible post in answer to mine.
    Wrong! First the facts. Then a discussion of the facts... Not a conclusion first, then a search for facts to support the conclusions...
    To see the silly side of a discussion...?
    I stated a fact that got you all riled up! You all feel insulted by my experience? Jeesiz! As I love to say "Don't argue with it! Test it!" Search for the latest Bugtraq, or exploit. Try malware, or a hijacker.... Post the link, rather than be up in arms. That should silence me... LOL! Or all of you...
     
  15. still_longhorn

    still_longhorn Registered Member

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    Point well taken Primrose. But the keywords today are Exploits, Bug Traqs, cgi-bin, coredump and the like... even About:Blank, sleazeware, hijackers and whatnot...
    You are sadly referring to WSF of yesterday when HJT logs were allowed to be posted. Hey, don't get me wrong... desisting from HJT was an administrative decision not to be questioned... consequences are consequences are consequences.... The day WSF stopped discussing the details of hot sleazeware issues of today was the day it stopped appearing on my radar.... To give you cry babies something to crow about, only a few months ago, any search on R1, R0, 03, 04 entries yielded WSF threads. In case you haven't noticed, the last few posts on HJTv are about to be archived. When that happens, the blip disappears completely and only the silliness remains.... Referral to links unfortunately don't count even in a Google dance...

    Don't argue with a hypothesis! Test it! LOL!
     
  16. nadirah

    nadirah Registered Member

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    Well, you could say that I stumbled upon this forum by chance. I found something last year on a website, and it had links to various forums. I clicked on one of the links and whoosh! I came to wilders security forums. I sort of found this place interesting, so I joined in.
    I help people if I can(but not so often), and I frequent update alerts, software and services and ten-forward the most. I log in when I'm free. Right now it's the school holidays. Where I got my knowledge about computer security and spyware from, it's all from wilders security forums.
     
  17. Detox

    Detox Retired Moderator

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    *scratch scratch*


    hmmm

    *comtemplate*

    All riled up? Insulted? What where who when uhhh what o_O
     
  18. still_longhorn

    still_longhorn Registered Member

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    Detox,

    Don't ~snipped~ argue with a hypothesis... Test it! ROFLOL!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 19, 2004
  19. still_longhorn

    still_longhorn Registered Member

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    Sorry guys but that was Last Year.... I'm talking about today.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2004
  20. Rita

    Rita Infrequent Poster

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    Hi Nadirah
    like you,I find it most interesting here-it's my home away from home and I'm proud to be a member!I also help if I can(not often)because I dont have the knowledge to do so(me-not you)but everything I've learned I learned here!I find it a wealth of info.
    Rita
     
  21. BlueZannetti

    BlueZannetti Administrator

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    still_longhorn,

    This certainly seems to be quite at variance with your postings

    Sorry for being a bit of a simpleton, but exactly what hypothesis are you discussing. I see a flurry of subjects, none terribly closely defined in this thread. Not the best starting point for testing of any sort.

    Blue
     
  22. still_longhorn

    still_longhorn Registered Member

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    OK Blue, here goes:
    I found this incredible since I do a lot of Googling. And I posted it as follows:
    Straightforward opinion of my experience. Nothing personal.
    Wow! Nice sniping here as a consequence of a moderator who had to jump in and post his sentiments. "Hey mod, you moderate and please do not intercede in behalf of someone..."
    Well Duh...! Of course WSF will turn out if the keyword for a search is "Security Forum" but who uses that in searches today? We google for other things and my hypothesis was, if we search for other security topics as Bug Traqs, Exploits, cgi, buffer overflows or even simple sleazeware names and phrases, WSF wouldn't be mentioned at all... One should not argue against that. Simply test it!
     
  23. still_longhorn

    still_longhorn Registered Member

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    If there is one thing about my posts, they are so boringly consistent...
     
  24. Primrose

    Primrose Registered Member

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    :D Flux in the space continuum is just starting out and dll injection has not even reached the moon yet and far from a dead issue. It appears your real needs delve into serious discussion found only at few private Security Forum but unfortunately they are password protected and by invitation only. Google will not help you on that. As I suggested to you before.."I am just waiting for you to really get down to business at Wilders and help a member with the security of their own system since that is why most come here. They come here to learn, for help on specific problem and also to visit with the friends they have made in the course of those actions."

    A one-on-one hijackthis open forum has it's advantage as a learning tool for many and not just the individual seeking help..but Google has made a mess of all that since only a few talented and industrious people understand what they are seeing..and what they are not seeing then why in that limited diagnostic tool..thus Google is not your friend if you are searching for the correct answers..seen to many people try to do it on their own..with post of others they have found there..and failed miserably.

    There are just not enough of them around to fill the real need..and besides it also make some individuals fail to really Secure their system..why should they when help was just a heart beat away.


    You still fit in there someplace. Preventative or Reactive..they both hold a place in Security..but not in a metaphysical dispute.

    Wilders services the needs of its members..otherwise they would not spend time here..even anon love to post just to see what kind of reaction they will get. ;) You can spot the serious ones a mile away. For those it is a pleasure to help.
     
  25. Galcoolest

    Galcoolest Registered Member

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    SL wrote:

    Of course WSF will turn out if the keyword for a search is "Security Forum" but who uses that in searches today? We google for other things and my hypothesis was, if we search for other security topics as Bug Traqs, Exploits, cgi, buffer overflows or even simple sleazeware names and phrases, WSF wouldn't be mentioned at all... One should not argue against that. Simply test it!

    Sl states exactly the point I had made about when Wilders may come up... But guess what, 85% or so of the computing public DOES USE THAT SIMPLE LINGO IN SEARCHES TODAY--- and are not high volutin "computer security professionals", but average folks seeking basic answers to everyday questions.

    As a person becomes more well-versed in the highly technical aspects of what the demons are that are out there- which knowledge SL so repeatedly makes sure he shows off to us- then I, too, believe a site such as Wilders is no longer the spot for such an obviously advanced professional- it will just bore him, annoy him, frustrate him.

    But more importantly, in my view, and I will be perfectly damn blunt, a person with such a defensive, combative personality and who exhibits such astonishing arrogance and dismissiveness of others "not up to his level" has no business hanging out on any site whatsoever. He really oughta be off studying up on Carnegie's "How to WIn Friends and Influence People".. (and IMHO start to get worried about a lot more than the name of the latest exploit ).

    Sorry, I'm sick of reading SLs crap- I don't care what the hay he knows that I don't know- I wouldn't tolerate him as a teacher from what I have seen thus far. My inclination would be to try to TEACH HIM a thing or two about some stuff that's infinitely more important than computer security crap.
     
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