How do they get away with it?

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by ecps, Jan 26, 2007.

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  1. ecps

    ecps Registered Member

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    If I bought a new car, took it home, and then discovered that the rear doors would not open I would complain. If I was then told that the vendor knew that the doors were faulty but decided not to say anything about it then I would be furious. If I then tried to get my money back but was ignored ... Well, it just wouldn't happen. Why then should Acronis be allowed to get away with it?

    One of the reasons I bought True Image Home 10 was because it was claimed that it would back up emails simply. No-one mentioned, of course, that it would not back up the most common of all email clients - Microsoft Outlook. I now discover that Acronis have known about this for months but chosen to keep quiet about it. This is disgraceful. I have contacted Acronis to enquire about a refund and have, of course, been ignored.

    I have now decided to contact every PC magazine here in the UK so that others do not become victims of this immoral company. I am keeping a copy of this post and will include it in my correspondence together with any responses. I will also pass on details about when this post is removed.

    ecps
     
  2. Carver

    Carver Registered Member

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    I use Mozzila Thunderbird. Backing up email is a new feature, so of course I expect it not to work. Maybe next version, it is a step in the right direction.
     
  3. Ralphie

    Ralphie Registered Member

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    Carver, you are too kind ... the bug was reported about 2 weeks after ver. 10 rolled out, time enough for a fix to be out. Since it was a new feature, one would think that it would have been tested and tested and tested.

    Oh wait ... you're being sarcastic! LOL.
     
  4. seekforever

    seekforever Registered Member

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    I am prepared to cut a bit of slack when rather obscure bugs are found in a program given the diversity of PC hardware, drivers and other software.

    However, I just can't believe that TI10 was released with a bug that renders it totally useless in backing up Outlook email. If I were testing the program, Outlook would be the one I would have flogged to death given its broad user-base.
     
  5. Steve1209

    Steve1209 Registered Member

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    Seekforever,

    You make a good point IF I'm using the software to back up a file, but I might think most are using it(Acronis TI 10) to back-up a drive & restore a drive, the full drive back-up/restore works fine under TI10 Home, I used it today!
    Just my 2 cents worth...

    Steve
     
  6. seekforever

    seekforever Registered Member

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    I agree most are using it to make images and clones and I also agree that functionality works quite well. Based on the number of complaints about the failure of email backup along with the statement that email backup was the reason they bought the program it seems that this feature is desired. Even if it wasn't popular, Acronis states that it backs up Outlook but it doesn't work.

    Perhaps the real issue is the big picture. When TI9 was released it was dreadfully bug-ridden and shouldn't have been released. It took several builds before it was workable. I might add that the image and cloning technology was good it was the new Files and Folders feature that didn't work, images declared corrupt when they weren't and user-interface problems. When the direct DVD burning was introduced, it didn't work until a couple of builds later. Now email backup is introduced and it doesn't work. TI10 apparently does a validate in Windows and then does a validate again when the Linux recovery environment is started. This bug was introduced somewhere along the line with TI9, reported many times and yet persists in TI10.

    There seems to be no realization that there is a serious QA problem with software releases.
     
  7. foghorne

    foghorne Registered Member

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    My perception is that this an intentional development philosophy. They certainly did the same with V8,V6 and V1, and I think there were problems with the early V7 too (though I skipped that version). I think they feel that because of hardware and driver issues there is no way that they can get the quality to an acceptable level without pushing it out to a wider audience for feedback. The trouble is that this makes their early customers, paying Beta testers.

    If dissapointment is based on expectation this can not be a clever way to go, and the only reason they survive is that they are in the enviable position where their competition are relatively poor. This will not always be the case IMHO. Either Acronis will eventually adopt realistic quality procedures or they will start losing market share.

    F.
     
  8. jjbtnc

    jjbtnc Registered Member

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    I'm in the process of about to try the trial of TI10 - mainly interested in disk imaging but really looking forward to these kinds of features. I've even raved about it to friends at how good it looks and it really seems to be total backup solution for the pc rather than just a disk imager.

    I had just assumed that it worked with outlook! If it advertises itself as able to backup emails then i would expect it to work 100% with Outlook and Outlook express - not because they're better than other email programs just because they're so common.
    Think i'll still go with TI as it's great for disk imaging/cloning but this is a real downer for me - and also not mentioned in a pc mag review going on about how great TI is and it's great file and email backup feature!!


    Cheers fro the heads up! and i'll make sure i tell everybody i recommended TI to
     
  9. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    While agreeing about the the expectation that a program that advertises a new feature one should expect it to work, I am not sure I understand buying Acronis just to back up outlook email.

    Microsoft makes a free backup solution for Outlook, works like a charm. You can keep the file it makes off disk or whatever. When using Acronis just for imaging and restoring the disk it has worked fine. Little things like the progress indicator don't always work and that is a bit troubling, but I've always been able to restore images.

    There is indeed competition, and anyone following my posts elsewhere knows what I am doing.

    Pete
     
  10. mrtee

    mrtee Registered Member

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  11. jjbtnc

    jjbtnc Registered Member

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    true - you could also just manually back up your .pst file - it's a bit off saying it has an email backup feature that doesn't work with outlook though.

    As i said before i will still probably go with it depending on my experiences with the trial, as it is supposed to be the disk imaging/cloning tool of choice which is the main feature of the program, and definitely the one i am most interested in.

    I haven't tried it yet so can't really comment on what works and what doesn't - if you go to the main features page of TI

    http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/products/trueimage/

    there's this

    Backup your Outlook e-mails, contacts, calendar, tasks, notes, signatures, news folders, e-mail rules and user settings with just a few mouse clicks!

    and

    Outlook backup — Preserve your emails, contacts, calendar, tasks, notes, signatures, news folders, e-mail rules and user settings with just a few mouse clicks

    i don't know what/if there is a problem - but if there is then why advertise the aboveo_O
     
  12. mrtee

    mrtee Registered Member

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    I just tried the e-mail backup in TI10 and it of course failed, as it appears to be doing for everyone else. It saved something, but I am not going to restore it to see what it saved. Tried to open it for viewing and it told me that it was not the last part of a multi part file and is password protected.

    It is a lot more button pressing (with TI10) than pressing "Save backup" once when I close Outlook.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2007
  13. jjbtnc

    jjbtnc Registered Member

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    I don't want to get to bogged down on this as it's only a small feature - strange why they are still advertising it as 'outlook backup' when they know it doesn't - never seen anything like that before - puts me off the product a bit, not that it doesn't work more the fact that a company is advertising a feature of a product on their main page and enticing people to purchase when they KNOW it doesn't - just seen more posts referring to this problem and a support reply saying it's a known problem but still being advertised as a feature - not really a way for a company to do business.
     
  14. shieber

    shieber Registered Member

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    Acronis should stop saying that it can back up outlook in that special ay that it won't. It's deceptive at best. Or at least post a known bugs list. And it should be very prompt and easy to get a refund. Those things I would expect from any, I mean any company vending products or services.

    I realize all software has problems -- computing is so complicated that no one understands it anymore -- but Doesn't ATI still promote ATI10 the same as it did before the outlook bug became known?

    It's not a matter of software knowledge, it's a matter or good and moral business practices.

    Sooner or later someone is going to start contacting the Attorney's Generals in some of the USA states about consumer fraud and then it could get kinda weird. Whether it meets the legal definition of fruad in any USA state isn't clear since the USA has such lax laws about it -- but it could get messy for Acronis, legal fees and all or even class action filings -- ugh, it could be awful and all they had to do was admit the bug AND offer refunds and change the advertizing.
     
  15. simusphere

    simusphere Registered Member

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    I think this very clearly falls under the category of False Advertising. If it were a TV commercial that said such and such did such and such but it didn't then you can pretty much guarantee that the company advertising would change quickly, or else be sued. There are a lot of lawyers that watch TV on occasion.

    So the question remains, How do they get away with it? Probably because no one really cares enough to tell their lawyer about it. If any one of us was an attorney then we might see some action.

    Personally, I don't really care because I am not even using the new version. I still use the version 9 build 3677 because it works for me. And the main function of imaging a whole disk is really what Acronis is all about. All the other features and new stuff to sell a new version will only mean something when newer versions of Microsoft operating system become the norm. Right now win2000, winXP, and win2003server are still the big three out there.
     
  16. bodgy

    bodgy Registered Member

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    The problem, is, we don't know if there are people out there who have got this to work, and therefore haven't felt the need to come here.

    If the problem is being caused by an MS acknowleged bug - the bug doesn't show up in all versions of Outlook or OS's.

    Whilst that wouldn't be Acronis' fault, I would have expected them to have applied one of MS's workarounds and mentioned they'd be putting it in to the next build of TI 10, which must surely be due out soon.

    Colin
     
  17. ecps

    ecps Registered Member

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    I emailed Acronis with the following:

    Please explain how I can get a refund for Acronis True Image Home 10. I bought it on the understanding that it would back up emails. You advertised that it would do this and it does not. You are therefore under an obligation to refund my purchase price as you knowingly sold a faulty product.

    Please note that I am keeping a record of all correspondence between us on this matter and plan to send it to all major UK computer magazines if I am not satisfied with your reply.



    They replied with:

    ~ No private emails on the forums please - Ron ~


    I am replying by stating that I do not want a substitute product but I do require a refund. As far as I am concerned they have neither a moral nor a legal 'leg to stand on'. I notice that on the Acronis website they STILL falsely claim that Outlook emails can be backed up. I will post any further developments here.

    I continue to keep a copy of all communication on this issue to pass on to UK PC magazines.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 31, 2007
  18. ChairmanMeow

    ChairmanMeow Registered Member

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    When I first got ATI 10 I tried a backup of my Outlook Express emails. The progress bar didn't move for 5 minutes so I cancelled it. I assumed that it must be inefficient as I have 5 years of emails in various folders. I thought that they must be extracting each email in turn using some interface and that's why it was so slow.

    So, it seems that I have been hit by some bug also.

    Now I just close OE and backup the entire 'Documents and Settings' folder as that's where the email files are stored (and I assume the WAB).

    I mainly use it for regular disk backups (and a couple of restores so I know that works).
     
  19. RodM

    RodM Registered Member

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    Mine has yet to fail to perform a OE backup (well, it has caused an error at the initial backup process on a couple of occasions). My problem is the emails, while shown in the backup files, never get restored, only the address book.
     
  20. CatFan432

    CatFan432 Registered Member

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    The secret to happiness in backing up Outlook Express files and the address book is to move them to their own folder, (better yet a separate partition) then you can just create a backup job for that folder if you wish. It's worked great for me.

    Moving the email files is quite easy. Just create a folder for OE, then a sub folder for each identity. Open OE, then:
    Tools-Options-Maintenance-Store Folder - and then browse to point the file to your new folder. Note that you have to close OE before the files are actually moved.

    Moving the address book requires a registry edit, described in the attached text file. Of course, backup everything before making the changes.
     

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  21. Ralphie

    Ralphie Registered Member

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    That's good that you found a workaround, but why doesn't TI know to look at that OE path, and backup OE? I'm wondering if it is because one of the folders in the path is a series of letters and numbers which is different for each user/computer/install of windows.
     
  22. CatFan432

    CatFan432 Registered Member

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    To be fair to Acronis (disregarding that their program doesn't work as advertised) I'm not certain what their feature is supposed to back up. If it's aim is to pull settings from the registry, as their My Application Settings looks to do, then that doesn't compare to my method, which simply saves the address book and the assorted dbx folders.

    What I try to do is separate all my important data to a different partition than the O/S partition, so even if I have to restore an image for the O/S that's a bit older than I might like, my data remains current.
     
  23. bodgy

    bodgy Registered Member

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    I think Acronis uses the Outlook interface DLL. This DLL from Microsoft has has an error in it when 'foreign' programs use the hooks into the code. Though this is exactly what a DLL file is supposed to allow.

    MS have published a coding workaround in their knowledge base, but it doesn't solve the problem completely.

    It would be interesting to know if anyone has got this to work with all Outlook files in their default areas.

    Colin
     
  24. shieber

    shieber Registered Member

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    That might be the secret to doing backups with ATI but Acronis promotes the product as having another way to do it, a way that one would expect to be simpler and to work. It doesn't and, imo, refunds should be given to those that request them. A product must do what it's offered for sale as doing. It's not a question here of not working some some machines. It's a bug that Acronis admits to. The next step is, after admission, is to change the promotion and give refunds to those affected that ask for them.

    sh

     
  25. CatFan432

    CatFan432 Registered Member

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    No disagreement from me at all, it wasn't my intention to let Acronis off the hook, just to offer an alternative. Acronis could also take the "patch" route on some of these issues, like this one, that are really pissing a lot of users off, releasing specific fixes rather than their policy of just major releases, which delay just pushes customers away. -CF
     
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