Home 2009 Suddenly Reboots on Mount After Installing Echo Workstation on Same Machine

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by Marpost, Apr 30, 2009.

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  1. Marpost

    Marpost Registered Member

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    This question takes a while to explain, but isn't actually that complex a question. I really appreciate you taking the time to read it and help.

    I've been using True Image Home 2009 for several months so I have many images made using it. But I wanted to be able to use Universal Restore so I just bought True Image Echo Workstation. Since I may need to access both older images made with Home 2009 and newer ones made with Echo Workstation, I need both of them on my computer.

    When I first got Echo Workstation in trial form, I installed it. During the install, it recognized a few files that were apparently already installed by Home 2009. It asked whether to overwrite them and I chose no. Once I had it installed, I made an image with it and then played around with the older and newer images. I found that the built in explorer had been changed over to Echo Workstation, so I could no longer just click on old images and view them. To do that I would have to actually open Home 2009 and mount the image. This is fine since I assume that it will be rarer that I'll be using the older images, so I don't mind opening up Home 2009 and mounting them when I need to, though it is obviously a bit less convenient than when I could just click on them. But the newer image worked just clicking on it.

    I was also able to mount both older and newer images in Home 2009 and mount the new image in Echo Workstation.

    So all was well.

    Then I bought the actual Echo Workstation. I removed the trial version and installed the paid version. Since I figured I'd now be using Echo Workstation primarily, this time when it asked about overwriting those few files I said yes. It installed and then I installed Universal Restore. I then set about to do what I thought would be a nominal re-check that everything worked. Unfortunately, it didn't.

    Now, when I open Home 2009 and go to mount the old images, the strangest thing happens. It tries to mount for a while and then suddenly the computer reboots! No warning, nothing. It just suddenly reboots! I don't know if this has to do with having allowed the overwrite of those files during installation or what. I tried removing Echo Workstation and yet it still continues to do this. This is very problematic since mounting in Home 2009 is now my only way to access these old images on this computer. I have to be able to get it to where I can both mount those images in Home 2009 and also do everything I need to in Echo Workstation.

    Worse yet, when I try to do a System Restore back to before I installed Echo Workstation, it won't work now for who knows what reasons. But I can't get it back to where it was before to try. And I don't know precisely which files Echo Workstation overwrote because now when I reinstall it again it doesn't find them since its newer versions are still there I guess.

    Like I said, when I installed Echo Workstation trial version and didn't allow the overwrite - therefore apparently leaving a few key files from Home 2009 - everything worked as I need. I also should mention that when I had the trial installed and hadn't overwritten the files, clicking mount in my context menu always opened Home 2009. With the paid install and the overwritten files, this changed and clicking mount in my context menu on an image opened Echo Workstation. So my belief is that those few overwritten files were very much tied to the mount behavior and probably are the key to why now Home 2009 won't mount anything and instead oddly reboots the machine.

    If I could only do a system restore it would go back to those earlier files and probably work. But it won't. I could remove Home 2009 also and do everything from scratch if need be, but this would be a pain since I already have defaults and settings set up in it. The ideal would be if someone could tell me precisely which few files were overwritten and I could go back to my first image created with the trial of Workstation and replace them manually. Which few files would Workstation ask to overwrite or not on a machine with Home 2009 already installed?

    Or could this be something else? It's incredibly strange to me that Home 2009 not only won't mount the images, but that it suddenly reboots the whole machine when I try.

    Once again, keep in mind that both programs did work fine together after the earlier install so they can play nice together if only I had done the second install the same as the first I believe.

    Advice would be very helpful. Thanks!
     
  2. Marpost

    Marpost Registered Member

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    One more addition to this question is that it would also be helpful to have other ideas on how to work this combination of old Home 2009 and new Echo Workstation .tib files. Is there a way to have both the Home 2009 and Echo Workstation backup explorers working? I don't see how since .tib files would have to be read by one or the other by default it seems. But then again, perhaps right clicking on it would let me choose one or the other somehow.

    Even with a solution to that though, it's still critical that I can mount in Home 2009 without the computer rebooting. So I still would need an answer to that, but feel free to throw in other suggestions for how to work this combination, as well.
     
  3. Marpost

    Marpost Registered Member

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    One more piece of info that might help. The time when True Image Home 2009 keeps spontaneously rebooting the computer is after the little clock goes for a while while trying to mount an image along with the message that says it is assigning a drive letter. That hangs there a while and then suddenly it just reboots.
     
  4. bodgy

    bodgy Registered Member

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    I was surprised to read that Echo was happy reading a TI2009 image, as I thought there were still algorithmical differences between the two.

    I think at this stage the easiest thing to do, is uninstall both programs, download and run the Acronis Cleaner tool and then re-install TI 2009 with Echo afterwards.

    I don't think Acronis expect you to have the Home and the Echo version on the same PC. Having said that, I have done that with TI 11 and Workstation 9 and they played happily together.

    The only way I can think of getting the tib files to be opened by the correct utility, would be to have all the Workstation tib files be imaged to an image location, (I've got brain freeze at the moment and the correct terminology has escapes me), these files don't get the tib ending and only Workstation will recognise them.

    Colin
     
  5. Marpost

    Marpost Registered Member

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    Echo was not able to read a TI2009 image. That's precisely why the only way I can view those older images once Echo is installed is by opening up TI2009 and mounting the image. And that's what won't work anymore as it just keeps spontaneously rebooting while assigning a drive letter.

    However, TI2009 was - at least earlier on - able to work with both its own images and the Echo images. I think you misread and got this reversed.

    I was hoping before having to do a total uninstall and reinstall that I might find out just which those few files are that Echo asked about overwriting because I have a feeling if I could just go restore those few files it would work as it did before. And if only it would still have to overwrite them again, it would ask me one by one and I could write the names down. But it doesn't anymore since the Echo ones are now already there. Even just a complete list of all changes created by both the Echo and Home 2009 installers would let me see the overlap and answer the question. But I don't see this anywhere.

    If I do have to totally uninstall and reinstall, there is still a problem. I have seen a program to help fully uninstall TI Home 2009 (is this the Acronis cleaner you mention?) and I also have directions for a full manual uninstall. But how do I fully uninstall Echo? I already did remove in add/remove for both Echo and Universal Restore and that left a ton of folders and things it seems. Definitely doesn't seem to have fully uninstalled (though I may be wrong). Is there also a clean uninstall file or directions for a full manual uninstall of Echo? Or does the Acronis cleaner get rid of all Acronis files and registry entries, etc. for all Acronis programs? I was under the impression it doesn't.

    Yes I guess it would be possible perhaps to give the Echo images a different extension and assign that somehow. But it's really not worth my trouble. I don't think that I will go back to the old TI2009 images all that often, so I'm happy to let Echo be the default for everything. I just need to be able to mount the TI 2009 images when necessary and right now I can't.

    Thanks for the help. Hope some people can continue helping and get this solved. Much appreciated.
     
  6. bodgy

    bodgy Registered Member

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    Ah I did misunderstand which program was reading which file.

    One file that would have changed is the timounter.dll which will lurk in C:\program Files\Acronis\TrueImageHome

    The other thing that may have changed will be the upperfilters in registry and snapmansys.

    I think I know why mine might have worked - I didn't use the default program locations - this way they installed themselves in customised locations and couldn't overwrite any program files.

    On the folder point, I didn't mean you change the ending, in Workstation (from what I remember) there is the option of choosing a backup location, which is a special folder that allows the Echo products to provide the extra backup options that they have. Any task setup to use the backup location uses an Acronis generated filename - normally made up of the date and a few other things.

    I'd try ensuring neither program goes into their default folder - there might still be a problem with the files that go into common files folder.

    Maybe Koholo, Mustang, Mudcrab or DwnDirty may have some solutions.

    Colin
     
  7. Marpost

    Marpost Registered Member

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    Thanks. All of this sounds good. But like I said the main problem I have now is how to even UNINSTALL all the acronis files and registry items to make sure it's 100% clean. Like I said I do have instructions for how to do a full manual uninstall on the Home 2009. But the Echo Workstation and Universal Restore, I haven't seen that. I'm afraid I'll go through the whole uninstall and leave remnants of Echo and when I reinstall the same thing will happen. I guess I can give it a shot without hurting anything and perhaps while waiting for more replies I will. But it would be nice to know how to do a 100% clean one.
     
  8. bodgy

    bodgy Registered Member

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    The actual files that Echo products use will be in the same areas as TI 2009.

    So apart from what lurks in the Acronis folder and the Common Files folder there will be scripts and other stuff located in;

    XP: Doucments and Settings\your_logon_name\application_data\acronis

    Vista: C:\Users\your_logon_name\AppData\Roaming\Acronis

    You will need to be able to see system files and folders in Explorer - so you may need to change your view files choices.

    The tricky one is the stuff in registry. If you delete the Acronis UpperFilters entry, you may find the OS has problems locating and accessing drives.

    It is also worth checking that the Acronis Device entry in Devices is no longer installed - Windows button + Pause/Break

    Others have more knowledge of the registry entries.

    Colin
     
  9. Marpost

    Marpost Registered Member

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    Correct, the registry is really the tough part. The manual uninstall directions for Home 2009 point out one by one what all of them are so they can be deleted. But I see no such list for Echo Workstation. Hence the concern, especially since my biggest problem seems to be Echo files that overwrote Home 2009, not the other way around. On the other hand, I just realize. If I go to install Home 2009 again it should AGAIN ask if I want to overwrite and rewrite the other files. DUH. I'll be testing stuff out tonight and let you know how it goes. Thanks so much for the thoughts.
     
  10. Marpost

    Marpost Registered Member

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    Ok so I uninstalled everything as best I could just using Add/Remove. I reinstalled Echo Workstation with Universal Restore and then reinstalled TI Home 2009. Now everything seems to work!

    Except now a new issue has arisen. I may just have to live with it, but it is worrisome a bit.

    After playing around with images from my external USB drive, I keep having a lot of trouble getting safe clearance to remove it. This never happened before. I am on XP and in the past I always would just use the safe removal process to stop the drive and be cleared to remove it. Once in a while it would say "Problem Ejecting USB Mass Storage Device" The device "generic volume" cannot be stopped right now. Try stopping the device again later."
    But if I just did it one more time it would allow me to remove it.

    Now what's often happening is no matter how many times I try, it keeps giving me that message. In fact, I could never have removed it at all, but I downloaded Process Explorer. It shows explorer.exe keeps handling a couple of the .tib files even after I've already dismounted them all and even closed all TI programs. I have to force the handle to close in Process Explorer to be allowed to remove the drive.

    If this is just part of what I have to do, then I guess it's not too bad. But I'm concerned for the safety of the drive and the images on it. Especially because at one point in this process - I don't know how exactly - one of the old images got ruined. I had one called something like 1.10.09 Image.tib and it was in a folder called 1.10.09 Image. Well out of nowhere, I put the drive in and found 3 folders suddenly, 1.10.09 Image(1), 1.10.09 Image(2) and 1.10.09 Image(3) and all were empty! I don't know how this happened. Luckily that was an old image that wasn't that crucial, but I'd be really upset if I lost other images.

    So this is where things are at now. All working as far as Home 2009 and Echo Workstation and I can see all the images and work with them properly, both old Home 2009 and new Echo Workstation images. But I'm having this worrisome problem with USB drive removal after using them.
     
  11. bodgy

    bodgy Registered Member

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    XP has had an update that fixed that problem - I've had it too.

    It is a well known problem with XP.

    Colin
     
  12. Marpost

    Marpost Registered Member

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    Do you know which update it is?

    I have never had this problem in years of using this drive. It only started now. And it clearly seems to be due to the new installation and use of Echo Workstation. This never happened even using Home 2009. So I have a hard time believing this is due to a lack of Windows Update. Or maybe it's that I just didn't need the update before but now with Echo Workstation I do need it. In any case, can you show me which one it is? I'll try it out.

    I'm also getting two other interesting things now in my Echo Workstation log:

    1) Man instances of Information module 70, code 5(0x460005) which says "File or folder 'ramdisk.dat' not found."

    2) Every time I open up and explore an image (not mount, but just click directly on it on the drive), the Echo Workstation log says Error Module 53 Code 21 (0x350015) Invalid Password. This is especially odd since I am using the correct password. The images are all encrypted. I use the proper password and they open fine.

    So in all cases, this is very odd because the program seems to be working absolutely fine. I'm tempted to just ignore these codes in the log as some kind of odd side effect. I mean it's telling me wrong password when the password is obviously correct and the file opened? But I would rather figure out what is going on with them if possible.

    Thanks for your continued responses Colin. Anyone else with any ideas please chime in, thanks!
     
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