Help "How to" install Vista on a empty HD: partitions & cluster (Beginner)

Discussion in 'Acronis Disk Director Suite' started by admsupport, Jan 29, 2009.

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  1. admsupport

    admsupport Registered Member

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    I newly use DD on XP, and will install Vista on a new laptop soon. Can you confirm the following "how to". I need to make sure I fully understood this topic before trying (I want to make it right):

    Letters = instructions
    Q = question related to the instruction above

    Installing Vista on a fresh HD (how to):
    ---
    A1. either choose to make the partitions with DD (standard 63-sector) beforehand,
    Q. Can I create new partitions on an empty HD, using only the DD recovery CD (I mad the recovery DD disk with XP)
    A2. either use the vista tool (but do not mix DD and the vista tools to make different partition because of different sectors)
    ---
    B. set a boot partition: cluster size 4, and set a system partition: cluster size 16
    Q1. Can I set these 2 partitions using DD on the empty HD before even installing Vista: What must be the size of the BOOT partition (4k) and what must be the size of the SYSTEM partition (16K)(Vista Ultimate 32k)?
    Q2. Is the following correct: I must then install Vista from the DVD on the SYSTEM partition (and I won't be able to boot after that), then run and boot from the Vista DVD, and copy the Vista boot files from the SYSTEM partition to the BOOT partition. Then again edit the BCD settings as follow:

    The Windows Boot Manager {bootmgr} to "boot"
    The Windows Boot Loader {default} to "partition=c:"
    The advice to "partition=C:"
    The Memory Diagnostic {memdiag} to "boot"​
    ---
    Is that all? I read this thread, but I get somewhat confuse, and I would like a simple tutorial if it is possible.

    Many thanks in advance, especially since it is not new information.

    Added questions: Should ADD 11 make operations on Vista easier (warning message upon changing the cluster size on system partition; creation of a boot partition of 4k and a system of 8 or 16 or 32 k automatically)? And is there another disk management tool on the market to address this issue (or to state it clearly)?
     
  2. K0LO

    K0LO Registered Member

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    If you're installing fresh then it's very simple:

    1. Use DD to delete all partitions from the hard disk.
    2. Create a small boot partition as primary active NTFS. 100 MB should be enough. Make sure that this partition is formatted with a 4k cluster size. Vista's boot manager will not function if the cluster size is larger.
    3. Create a large partition for Vista as primary, NTFS. You'll need at least 20 GB; 30 or 40 is better yet. Don't worry about the cluster size yet because you can let the Vista installer format the partition.
    3. Boot to the Vista DVD. Run the installer.
    4. Point the installer to the large partition. Use the format tool to first format the large partition with a larger cluster size.

    The Vista installer will automatically put the boot files (bootmgr and the /boot directory) on the Active partition (your small boot partition) and it will install the rest of Vista to the large partition. You will end up with the large partition's drive letter as C: and the small boot partition will be D: or higher.

    The rest of the steps in your questions aren't necessary; they only apply to already-installed systems that you're trying to separate into two partitions.
     
  3. admsupport

    admsupport Registered Member

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    k0lo,

    A double tank you. First you have answered almost all of my posts, secondly your information is clear on concise (this double thank goes to MudCrab too) and I am about to be good to go!

    In the case of a brand new drive with unallocated space only, is this necessary?

    The DD partition cluster isn't 4 by default? I did not try it yet since there is no free space on my disk. If I see "default" as value, can I leave it as is?

    If I recall you have Vista 32 bit Business? I have both Vista Business & Ultimate to install on different machines.

    On XP Pro my primary partition C:\ reaches 15 GB counting the system & software (+ 6 GB empty space dedicated as temporary space to burn DVD or for additional software - is this temp space adequate?). All the documents are located on the D:\ volume.
    2009-01-30 9-40-18.png

    Are your values of 30 or 40 for the SYSTEM: E.g. Vista Ultimate 40 G + Soft ~8 G + Temp burning space 6 GB :ouch:

    Okay (at least one step question free!)

    On this post you advice the following:


    Does that mean I should stick to vista tools to manage my partitions and not using DD anymore on this partition or disk? I am too new to grasp the technical details, but that DD uses the old 63-sector offset and Vista the new 2048-sector offset.

    Still following your post: you use TI to have the correct 63 sector value on your partitions, i.e. you make an image of the partition with TI; clean the partition; and re-install the image to get the correct sector (~assuming if I have understood correctly?). If I make a partition with the vista tool at 2048 sector, what happens is I save it as an image with TI and re-install it?

    So no configuration at all?! Does that apply to XP too? I could never separate the boot from the system when installing XP from the CD. So the proper way was only to create this first small partition beforehand, and then to install XP or Vista on a newly created system partition? I guess I can achieve this result from the XP CD or Vista DVD without the help of DD or is it not possible?

    Without the forum and the active users, I could never figure how to get the best of DD, nor to partition my disk the way I want to :thumb:
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2009
  4. K0LO

    K0LO Registered Member

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    No; you're fine.

    For a small partition it may choose a smaller cluster size than the default.

    Vista Business at work and Ultimate at home.

    Yes. I have 40 GB system partitions and they're over half full. Vista itself is (very rough numbers) 7 GB, Programs take up 7 GB, Paging file 3 GB, Shadow copy files (15% of disk) 6 GB, don't forget about recycle bin, etc. Like you, documents are on a separate partition.

    If you are going to use TI and DD then I would advise using 63-sector offset (the older partitioning standard). If you use DD to initially create the two partitions then that's what you'll get. If you create them with Vista tools you'll get 2048-sector offsets. If you image one of these partitions and then restore it, TI will move the restored partition back to 63-sector offset.

    Vista and Windows 7 will automatically install their boot files to the active partition. I haven't tried with XP but I suspect it would do the same.
     
  5. admsupport

    admsupport Registered Member

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    Great! I will give it a try as soon as I find a second-hand vista compatible laptop I can afford, or repair :cool: ****update!!**** I found a computer with a broken LCD. As soon as I found a replacement LCD I can install Vista. I am very enthusiastic to give it a try!

    PS: How about Windows 7, does this tutorial also apply the same way?

    Unrelated questions:
    1. I guess ADD 11 will come in the same time as Windows 7. Any pointer if the version up (ADD/TI) will match the Vista/W7 standard 2048 sector or not?

    2. You use Ultimate in 32 or 64 bits, both on laptops? What CPU and RAM for each version? With a page file of 3 GB, I would say it is for the 64 bits version. Isn't that too much on a 32 bits with a max of 4 ram?

    3. When W7 will be available, will you choose the 32 or 64 version?

    4. They cut price on the electronic over 20% in Japan (it goes with the bonus on salary twice a year - for those who have one). All the makers have to change their models at that time (summer/winter). It can only be the color, but it HAS to be new.
    When W7 will be on the market, the latest Vista laptop machines' price will drop off >35%. Since W7 is similar to Vista in hardware requirement, I guess I could buy a machine closed eyes at that time? Did W7 turned fine on your Vista machines? Or even faster?

    5. Lastly, I purchased the XP CD retailed, then the Vista DVD retailed (still in the box...) I have read that an upgrade version did not need the former application installed, but only required its serial. Any experience with update versions? If that's correct, I will purchase an update next time.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2009
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