HDD going bad - Cloning to bigger drive

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by Dennis L, Jun 29, 2007.

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  1. Dennis L

    Dennis L Registered Member

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    Specs
    XP Home/sp2 all updates - Local build - 5 years old.
    OLD HDD - WD-120GB - C-Partition (41GB) and D-Partition (71GB). This drive boots fine - SMART issuing errors.
    NEW HDD IDE - Seagate 250GB/16MB - Never been installed - Currently jumper set to Cable Select
    Installed Programs - TI9/3854 and DD10/2160.
    Experience - Above average - I'm not a builder - Not familiar with MOBO / HDD Hardware configuration .. but a fast learn.
    See JPG - ALL Drives - Current Configuration - Nero Info Tools

    Would like to keep this HDD change as painless as possible.
    To temporarily slave in the new HDD for cloning process, can I use one of the optical drive cable sets for connection. (see JPG for current config). With computer OFF ...
    Which optical drive cable sets should I choose to connect new drive up to??
    Which optical drive do I put in TI9 rescue disk in??
    Once above done ...
    Boot computer via TI9 rescue disk.
    Select Clone process - Automatic or Manual??
    Cloning questions - Want to set new drive to same C and D partition scheme.
    If in Clone/automatic will this question be asked??
    If YES, will it ask the size for each partition??
    Would like to commit approximately 20% space to C-partition, balance to D-data partition.
    Will it ask for space allocated to primarily partition (system), with balance awarded to 2nd partition?
    Will I assign drive letters in TI9, or will that be managed in XP Disk Management / reboot from new drive (after clone process/swap old to new HDD's and reconnect optical cables??
    THANKS for all advice - Suggestions welcome.
    Dennis L
     

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  2. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Dennis L,

    Do you have any backup images created before you started to see SMART errors. Who knows what files system errors are present on your failing HD now. You don't want these being transferred to the new HD.
     
  3. Dennis L

    Dennis L Registered Member

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    Have BEFORE and AFTER images.
    Computer working great, but SMART stating HDD failure could occur. See jpg of SMART results.
     

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  4. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Excellent. Pick a before image that you can live with. Where are your images stored?
     
  5. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    I just noticed your external HD. So does it contain images of your C and D partitions or is your D partition backed up as "data".
     
  6. Dennis L

    Dennis L Registered Member

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    My internal C-partition contains OS, programs and their required files. D-partition is everything else, including C-partition images. Then I copy D-partition to external drive. I have past three months of images stored on external. I also have an additional C-image BEFORE copy sitting on network attached XP (just for safe-keeping). In all honestly, I would not know I had a potential problem with my internal drive if it was not for SMART. Computer runs fine. My preference is to clone directly from current internal drive. Trying to keep it is simply as possible. Their has been times TI9 does not see my external (USB2), so I'm gun-shy to try that approach.
     
  7. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Dennis L,

    This is what I'd do. Remove your 120 GB HD and install the 250 GB HD on the same plug. Make sure it's seen in the BIOS. Boot to your DDS CD and partition the 250 GB HD. Boot to your TI CD and restore your C drive image to the first partition. Remove the CD and boot to Windows. Copy your data from the external HD to the second partition.

    Any questions? There are several alternatives.
     
  8. Dennis L

    Dennis L Registered Member

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    My internal C-partition contains OS, programs and their required files. D-partition is everything else, including C-partition images. Then I copy D-partition to external drive. I have past three months of images stored on external. I also have an additional C-image BEFORE copy sitting on network attached XP (just for safe-keeping). In all honestly, I would not know I had a potential problem with my internal drive if it was not for SMART. I run MJ Registry Watcher and it has not stated one "unknow or unexpected change to registry, boots fine, computer runs fine. My preference is to clone directly from current internal drive. Trying to keep it is simply as possible. Their has been times TI9 does not see my external (USB2), so I'm gun-shy to try that approach.
     
  9. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    I wouldn't clone a suspect drive when images are available taken before errors started appearing. It's the safe way to set up the new HD.

    If TI doesn't see your external HD then you would install the 250 GB HD as a master with the 120 GB HD as the slave, partition the 250 GB HD with DDS (probably already done in steps above) and restore the C drive image. Then remove the 120 GB HD and boot to the 250 GB HD. etc.

    This is not more complex than the cloning procedure.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2007
  10. Dennis L

    Dennis L Registered Member

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    Brian - Our post's crossed.
    Reading your suggestion.
    Do I have to check in BIOS for Drives over 131 / 137GB (?) when following your approach? Read somewhere in Acronis about a setting pertaining to this.
     
  11. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Not that I've heard.

    I made a few edits to my last post. Getting sleepy.
     
  12. Dennis L

    Dennis L Registered Member

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    Thanks for all the help Brian

    I'm following your suggested plan to move new drive in.
    What I've done so far .....
    Swap out old drive, installed new drive. (Clean computer up while I was there).
    Booted computer, checked BIOS - new drive detected - 250GB.
    Used DD10 and set up C-system (Active) and D-data partitions (logical). (NTFS file type)
    Now have TI9 restoring new C-system partition (from external drive).
    I'm going to take a nap, TI9 says a two hour restore.
    On return I will boot up with new drive. Hopefully Windows will load, if yes will go into disk management.
    If C and D are status as healthy will begin to copy over D-data files.
    Catch you later ...
     
  13. DwnNdrty

    DwnNdrty Registered Member

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    Have you run chkdsk /r on the drive that has the SMART errors?
     
  14. Dennis L

    Dennis L Registered Member

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    Ok, back from nap. My computer was OFF.
    Wife tells me we had a momentary BLACK OUT - C R A P.
    Not knowing status, I rebooted from NEW drive.
    Stated, Missing MBR. (Master Boot Record)
    So Question 1)
    When I partitioned new drive to C and D with DD10, and then started TI9 / restore to C-system partition,
    should I have included MRB and Track option?? I DID NOT.

    This is how I partitioned new drive with DD10
    45.19GB - Primary (I labeled system).
    187.7GB - Logical (I labeled data).
    NO unallocated space.

    This is what DD10 sees on my new drive now ...
    40.99GB - NTFS - Status = Primary
    4.198GB - Unallocated
    187.7GB - Data (C) - Status = Logical

    From the math, everything adds up.
    When I started TI9 restore to above, it correctly stated
    40.99GB (size OLD c drive) and restoring it (TO) a 45.19GB partition and TI9 was calling it C-drive.

    Questions
    What is the best plan - fix (or) start over ....
    First problem, do not know if restore completed successfully. If it DID complete, would shutting it off create the above problem?? Or is the real problem caused by me NOT taking the add MBR/track when doing the original restore to C-system partition of new drive??
    Also, Acronis is stating 40.99 as "Primary" but is assigning NO drive letter name. Acronis states the "Logical" partition size correctly as 187.7GB, but calls it "Data (C).
     
  15. Dennis L

    Dennis L Registered Member

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    Started over ...

    In DD10 did the following ....
    Deleted all previous created partitions on new HDD. Created the following .
    45.13GB partition - Qualified as "Active" (Boot Drive).
    187.7GB partition - Qualified as "Logical" (Data drive).

    Reboot to TI9
    Chose 45.13GB "Active partition (target) to be restored by 40.99GB Archive (source) - (on external drive).
    Question - Do I include option ... MBR and Track 0 . (YES or NO)
    (This pass does NOT appear to run the restore, just validates larger new partition will be restored by a smaller partition).

    After the above process is done , TI9 will AGAIN ask you to select target and source, I select the SAME target and source.
    Question - Do I AGAIN include the option on this 2nd pass ... MBR and Track 0. (YES or NO)
    (this pass does the actual restore process)

    So in summary, when TI9 performs these two back to back processes, do I INCLUDE the MBR and Track 0 in BOTH passes ??

    Thanks
    Dennis L
     
  16. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Dennis L,

    Good work so far and bad luck with that blackout. You deleted the partitions and started again. That's what I would have done.

    There is a fallacy running through this forum that it's compulsory to restore the MBR and Track 0. It's not. Quote from Dan Goodell...
    .. but for most of us this doesn't apply. If you don't restore the MBR, Acronis TI creates a generic one, which is just as good and your computer boots. If you did have a special MBR, it only needs to be restored once and not at each partition restore.

    So it's up to you. Tick Yes or No depending how you are feeling. The computer will still boot.

    Any questions?
     
  17. Dennis L

    Dennis L Registered Member

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    Thanks for the rescue Brian ... The more I read about this on the forums, the more confused I become.
    Just so we are on the same page.....
    This is a NEW drive, obviously it will have different MBR geometry than the old archive source I'm restoring from.
    TI9, so far during the restore has me go through two loops of identifying
    TARGET and SOURCE (first loop does identify size differences of larger Target and smaller Source partitions, what else it does is unknown to me). In both cases I repeat the same target/source.
    So your recommendation for BOTH of these process loops ... INCLUDE OPTION for MBR and Track 0
    It does NOT matter, either one works??

    Thanks
    Dennis L
     
  18. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Dennis, that's correct. But keep everyone happy. Tick Yes.

    I tick No to be controversial.
     
  19. Dennis L

    Dennis L Registered Member

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    To late, I started process one, did NOT take option. :D
    Will repeat same on 2nd loop, unless you say different.
     
  20. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Again, tick Yes. It it fails for some other reason, I'll get the blame if you ticked NO.
     
  21. Dennis L

    Dennis L Registered Member

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    Setting up for pass two. Everything looks good.
    But, for some reason it is NOT asking for MBR / track.
    Oh well, wish me luck.
    Brian, if it does not work, will delete, start over and take the YES option. The problem is Acronis not posting an official position on this subject ... one that is easily understood to WHEN and WHEN NOT to use this options. Makes for poor PR.

    THANKS so much.
    Will probably be 2 to 3 hours before we know the verdict.
    Later
    Dennis L
     
  22. Dennis L

    Dennis L Registered Member

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    THANKS Brian
    New HDD booted up, Windows loaded, everything looks and runs just dandy. :D :) :thumb:
    On first bootup, windows discovered new drive, required a reboot, which I did. Checked Disk Management and both partitions are healthy and correctly mapped and sized. Fired up Driveman / SMART tool option and drive passed all tests. Computer runs fine - me happy - life is good.

    Summary...
    Acronis products, Brian's suggestions and advice worked liked a charm. Throwing a power outage in the middle of the restore (go figure, beautiful sunny day and the power is clicpped) was just Murphy shaking his finger in glee.
    My two observations - both with Acronis ...
    Why should it take 3 hours and 9 minutes to do the restore, seems a bit SLUGGISH.
    Option MBR and Track 0 - What is it's purpose?? If a new drive / different brand / change in partition size / change in drive size does NOT require the use of this option - what is it's purpose. Currently it serves one purpose, and does it very well ... confuse and frustrate end users.
    Again Brian, I thank you very much for your help and support. You have a great weekend.

    Dennis L
     
  23. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    Happens all the time in California... that's why I use a UPS.

    When restoring a complete drive image to a new or wiped drive, I always check the box to restore the whole drive (which restores the MBR and Track 0). This is necessary when using boot managers (which I do). If you are only booting Windows, it's not usually necessary.

    To give you another example, with the current Vista sector 63 bug in TI, if you restore just the Vista partition, you'll need to do a repair to be able to boot. If you do a partition and MBR/Track 0 (whole drive) restore, then Vista will boot okay.

    Basically, if it doesn't work correctly one way, then try it the other way. TI saves it in the image file just in case you need it.

    If the restore times are too slow, you may want to consider creating a BartPE cd. This is usually 2 to 10 times faster than using TI in Linux mode, depending on your hardware.
     
  24. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Dennis, good work. I'm please to note we have similar backup strategies. Only the OS partition is imaged, the data partitions are backed up as data. Same native file type on the data backup partition as the source.

    As MudCrab mentioned, the MBR needs to be restored if it's a special MBR which you and I don't have. I have no experience with Vista so no comment.

    I always get a kick out of the restore process.
     
  25. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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