Getting a bit tired of SeaMonkey, looking for privacy friendly and secure browser

Discussion in 'other software & services' started by Fly, Feb 7, 2016.

  1. Fly

    Fly Registered Member

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    This is for a Windows 7 system.

    What's not to like about Seamonkey ? Maybe it's the GUI/the way it works. By now I have some experience with Firefox on Windows XP. User-friendly and convenient layout, sure. But not exactly ideal from a privacy perspective. Even if you tame it a bit, there are privacy issues. A simple example of that is that it seems to remember stuff even if you configure it not to remember login data.

    I really don't want a Google/Chromium product/clone. IE is pre-installed anyway, Seamonkey uses the Mozilla engine.
    Preferably I wouldn't want a 'suite' product like Firefox. Personally, I don't like frequent updates AND having to check the privacy/security settings of new versions ...

    Maybe I ask for too much. Just simple, safe, effective, secure, robust ... The good old days ...

    Also, I have never used an ad blocker on any of my own systems. For that, a modified HOSTS file seemed to work quite adequately. And as it has turned out, some (Ghostery?) ad blockers do some tracking of their own.
    But maybe it is time to install one. Any recommendation to block ads and other unwanted 'stuff' ?

    This is for a desktop, btw.
     
  2. amarildojr

    amarildojr Registered Member

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    It's not too much to ask :)

    Have you considered the Tor Browser Bundle?
     
  3. Joxx

    Joxx Registered Member

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    That has Palemoon written all over
     
  4. Brummelchen

    Brummelchen Registered Member

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    he asked for a secure browser, not TOR or palemoon. :p

    while testing chromium forkes i will stick to opera (chromium based) because real portable, not bound to any google account like chrome, vivaldi and others.

    "secure" is relativ. i need to trust a browser in several ways, reliable at first, must be stable and fit my needs.
    why not? any special reason against?
    firefox has upcoming changes and will be more like chrome after 2016, servo engine is coming, XUL is close to death.
    webextensions are nearly same after june'2016 for all browser.

    against annoying ads and some filter options i use uBlock origin in all my browsers - i can transfer very easy settings from one to another and all will act same. it also offers a hosts file usage from several sources - those sites are blocked by default.

    palemoon is using a complete other engine as firefox and people starts collection the xpi extensions because mozilla will remove them, firefox is no longer capable when xul is dropped after 2016 (beginning 2017). same for seamonky and thunderbird as they are community driven projects.

    so regular updates with filled security gaps is my first target - like i install windows updates. i use several (passive) methods to secure my system and a browser is only one brick, nothing special. so TOR is no option for me, in fact tor is pseudo and slow, files can be manipulated in some bad manner and you wont get it. if anonymous then vpn.
    that's the regular way for all browsers meanwhile, you cant avoid.
    settings - you should check some sites for preview information about new versions. i do.
    on the other hand you still can ask in support forums.
    from my view privacy settings are not change in a heavy way, they just improve from time to time.
    the most trouble is caused by using lots of extensions, in special firefox with its last two versions (v43/v44). but nothing some can solve in minutes.

    you wont find a browser which fits 100% of you needs - you can buy such cars, but not a browser :D
     
  5. vasa1

    vasa1 Registered Member

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    https://github.com/conformal/xombrero
     
  6. Fly

    Fly Registered Member

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    Brummelchen,

    Chrome/Chromium/Google, well I just don't trust Google products. It has been a long time since I studied that one. Either Chrome or Chromium transmites data to 'Google' by default, then there is the issue of the source code. Short version, I looked at these browsers years ago and decided not to use them if possible.

    'that's the regular way for all browsers meanwhile, you cant avoid.' Not for all, as long as you don't install a new version of IE an update will usually not change the security settings. But that happened at least once with Seamonkey.

    While I could do research first ... 'servo engine is coming, XUL is close to death.' 'palemoon is using a complete other engine as firefox and people starts collection the xpi extensions because mozilla will remove them, firefox is no longer capable when xul is dropped after 2016 (beginning 2017). same for seamonky and thunderbird as they are community driven projects.'
    I don't know anything about xpi or xul. Are you saying that seamonkey and palemoon won't work in the future/2017 ?

    While I know more about security/computing than the average Joe, I'm not a 'techie'.

    Palemoon and security, what's wrong with that ?
    Anyway, I'm old fashioned and I prefer a browser that is not a 'suite', that is managable, easy to understand, that doesn't have a massive attack surface, that doesn't need to be updated all the time, and that doesn't require 'faith' in the 'non-profit' institution to allow it to do what it does, like phoning home and updating.
    But I guess it is not 1998 anymore ...
     
  7. Joxx

    Joxx Registered Member

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    Nothing.
    Give it a try and check their forums.
    Yes, uBlock Origin.
     
  8. Brummelchen

    Brummelchen Registered Member

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    @Fly - firefox is currently using gecko engine and xul/xpcom as GUI - css for styling an xpi for extensions. xul+xpi is not to deparate - if xul dies xpi also. and that is coming 2017, starting with firefox 48 june'16. palemoon uses a gecko fork = community project. its complete off mozilla. and they need to examine themselves where the issues are, because firefox is using servo. TOR browser is now firefox 38 esr (always latest). next esr is upcoming v45, with firefox_47 v38esr will be forced for upgrade to v45esr. next esr v52 is definitely servo without xul and xpi.

    some says that firefox with servo and webxextension will become same "simple" as the firefox android version - only buttons, no styling. thats like chrome forkes behave _now_
    thats why i investigated some time in january for chrome, vivaldi and opera (as known products - i dont care about minor forkes with less users = less support). and it has to be portable easy - chrome will forget some settings and all extensions if no google account (opera or vivaldi account) is used.

    if you find connections to google or chrome sites that might update checks or the safelist - opera and vivaldi do not use all the code from chrome. at least firefox do same, but on mozilla servers (except the google safelist). palemoon claims to be free from such code but at least is also loads the same safelist if ticked, so what? although palemoon can use most firefox extensions the amount is shrinking due other engine. if palemoon wants o use webextension is has to use servo is will be back in place where it went off with switching the engine.

    ofc mozilla is still a non-profit institution it need to make money to pay their devs and other stuff. the google contact has run out and mozilla decided to join with yahoo and yandex (not all firefox languages) and other. nevertheless they dropped FirefoxOS which failed in complete against android or apple. mozilla also is researching some things and developping some code - eg chrome uses most code fragments from mozillas javascript engine (fastest engine) - and mozilla uses some code from chrome.

    chrome drops npapi like firefox, chrome will drop xp next versions, firefox will follow for sure.

    and the stats pointed out - firefox lost over the half of its user base to chrome (or forkes).

    while xmas i noticed firefox connections which are blocked from windows hosts file. on startup, in between, unregular and several times in a minute - across several windows os. makes me pensively.
     
  9. Joxx

    Joxx Registered Member

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    @Brummelchen
    You took some lessons from Finnegans Wake, but at least that had the excuse of being literary.
     
  10. Arthfael

    Arthfael Registered Member

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    I'm not sure there is such a thing as a privacy-friendly and secure browser. Up to a point, yes, but they all have trade offs. Chrome of course is known to be decently secure, but then you have Google and its privacy issues to worry about. Firefox isn't all that great out of the box, but extensions such as NoScript and your choice of ad blocking can help there. Privacy is a bit up in the air, but so is the future of Mozilla itself. They seem like they don't quite know where they are right now. Internet Explorer is, well, Internet Explorer. It isn't terrible, but it isn't wonderful either in my own opinion. Out of the box security is getting better, but it couldn't have gotten worse. As for privacy, Microsoft isn't looking so hot. They seem to have quit caring in my eyes.

    You have your forks to choose from of course, but in the end they mostly differ in branding and what updates they do and don't get. The TOR bundle is probably the best choice if you don't mind all the drawbacks that come with it as well. As they say, there is no free lunch.
     
  11. Brummelchen

    Brummelchen Registered Member

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    sorry, my english isnt the best if you meant that. i never read that book or any about, not clear what else you try to tell me. we never had James Joyce in school, only annoying Schiller, Goethe, Walraff and some other crap. :D
     
  12. Fly

    Fly Registered Member

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    @Brummelchen,

    That was a good explanation, thank you.

    ' palemoon claims to be free from such code but at least is also loads the same safelist if ticked' So it's opt-in, at least in a custom installation ?

    I have always had doubts about 'free' products, including Mozilla's. I don't recall the latest version of CCleaner, but it had something I didn't like ... Anyway, if I would use that product I'd use an older version. ('slim build')

    'while xmas i noticed firefox connections which are blocked from windows hosts file. on startup, in between, unregular and several times in a minute - across several windows os'
    You mean Firefox was bypassing the hosts file ? Any idea about what sort of connections/where to ?

    It seems I have to think about some things.
     
  13. Fly

    Fly Registered Member

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    @Arthfael,

    I honestly wouldn't mind paying, at least if it was a one-time fee.

    TOR ... way too much trouble. I don't need it.
     
  14. Arthfael

    Arthfael Registered Member

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    I've always wondered how a paid browser would sit with the public. You hear all the time that people just won't pay for anything anymore, but if that were true the antivirus companies wouldn't still exist. If it's a very well supported and secure browser without any "gotchas", I would pay a fee myself. As far as TOR is concerned, it's a great way to retain your privacy. But that's only if you trust the nodes you connect to and don't use anything like Flash.
     
  15. Brummelchen

    Brummelchen Registered Member

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    nah, hosts is blocking as wanted - i noticed some blocked connections/redirections to 127.0.0.1 on windows 8.
    windows 10 firewall control (from sphinxsoft) showed me the real address that was redirected - always an adware server - but from a number of 5 or 6 only, not more, rotation. i still assume that it is random and shared with another adress which mozilla is using, maybe an amazon cdn. i went back to early v38 and had that too - ~year back. thats also reason why i think its an unlucky choice of some cdn.

    the happening for being caught was luck, i have set my firewall to suppress allowed connections within the defined zone rule.

    concerning opera - they got an offer from china, the first west world browser in chinas hand. bad news for me because i started to like it.

    www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/apps/opera-browser-gehoert-wohl-bald-chinesischen-unternehmen-a-1076618.html
     
  16. Fly

    Fly Registered Member

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    I used to like Opera (12.17) on Windows XP but it got too old to deal with many websites. In particualr, Google.

    Just not a pleasant idea, Opera in Chinese hands. Not to be unkind, it's just that China's government has a history of censorship that is unlike what people in the USA and Europe are used to. You can never know.
     
  17. Daveski17

    Daveski17 Registered Member

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    I can't see in what way a Chinese consortium take-over of Opera AKA would affect something coded and distributed from Norway.
     
  18. Daveski17

    Daveski17 Registered Member

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    What about PrefBar for SeaMonkey to aid any privacy issues? PrefBar was originally based on the inbuilt K-Meleon privacy bar. It's very customisable and quite effective. As you probably know, you can drag almost anything into SeaMonkey's GUI. Here I've dragged it onto the Menu Bar. The SeaMonkey theme is 'Easy Blue', if anyone's wondering.

    sm1.jpg
    You can even customise PrefBar's spelling!

    sm2.jpg
     
  19. IvoShoen

    IvoShoen Registered Member

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    FWIW I recommend using Sandboxie with Palemoon as well as some of the above suggestions.
     
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