Freeze and Unfreeze

Discussion in 'FirstDefense-ISR Forum' started by ErikAlbert, Apr 18, 2007.

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  1. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    I use a frozen snapshot and if I change something on that snapshot, I have to re-freeze it to keep those changes.
    Today, I added 3 shortcuts of PDF-files on top of the desktop, the first row of icons for another (successful) experiment

    1. I use "Freeze" and reboot.
    The 3 icons are still on my desktop, that's good, the position of the icons were changed. In stead of on top (all 3 in horizontal position), they were moved to the bottom (all 3 vertical in position). That's wrong. So the "Freeze" didn't work.

    2a. I put my icons back on top.
    2b. I use "Unfreeze" without removing the freeze storage.
    2c. I use "Freeze" and reboot.
    Same result. Wrong.

    3a. I put my icons back on top
    3b. I use "Unfreeze" with removing the freeze storage.
    3c. I use "Freeze" and reboot.
    Same result. Wrong.

    4a. I put my icons back on top
    4b. I use "Unfreeze" without removing the freeze storage and reboot
    4c. I use "Freeze" and reboot
    Finally my icons were still on top. So that worked.

    So a reboot AFTER "Unfreeze" seems to be IMPORTANT to make "Freeze" working properly.
    Anyone else noticed this ?
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2007
  2. Horus37

    Horus37 Registered Member

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    Does it have anything to do with the auto refresh function of desktop? I noticed my tray icons change position all the time when in a frozen snapshot when rebooting. Every time I reboot a couple of them will change position. Evidently there must be a driver that functions to keep track of tray icon position. I saw a "group similar icons together" function in xp and wonder if that has to do with why they keep changing. Other than that I have never seen the freeze function NOT erase something it never was supposed to erase on reboot. there's got to be a reason why these icons change in a frozen snapshot reboot.
     
  3. stapp

    stapp Global Moderator

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    Probably nothing to do with freezing (as I don't have any frozen snapshots) but I have recently been in email discussion about something similar with raxco.
    I noticed when I did a copy/update from my primary to secondary, and then booted into the secondary snapshot, the icon for my process explorer was replaced by the standard white square one.
    They said it was a windows caching issue as I was able to make the icon "colouful" again by clicking on it.
    When I rebooted to my primary, the icon had moved futher down the screen. Never happened when I has RSS!
     
  4. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    Frankly, I don't know if WinXPproSP2 has anything to do with it, I know FDISR alot better than winXPproSP2 and any other software on my computer, because FDISR is supposed to save my computer.
    I admit, I should study winXPproSP2 more deeper, but I need more freetime for this and my job has nothing to do with PC's. So everything goes slow.

    You are right about the icons, a frozen snapshot never deleted icons on my desktop, I would notice this immediately. But when I install a new software and I position the icon where I want it followed by a re-freeze and reboot, the icon is back in the position where it was installed and not on the position where I put it. Re-freezing is supposed to keep the icon and it does that very well, but it doesn't remember its position.
    Re-freezing is not only freezing the snapshot, it also UPDATES the file "Freeze Storage.ARX" and this is also mentioned in the User Manual.

    Another thing I noticed is that Look'n'Stop doesn't remember the new authorizations. Each time I reboot I have to redo the new authorizations and another member confirmed this, because he noticed the same thing on his computer.
    "Unfreeze" + "Freeze" + "Reboot", doesn't do, what I thought it would do.
    "Freeze" + "Reboot", doesn't work either completely.
    I don't think it's something serious, it's only annoying that re-freezing doesn't remember EVERYTHING.

    From now on, I'm going to use this : "Unfreeze" + Reboot + "Freeze" + Reboot and I hope that this combination will remember everything. Of course I changed this recently, so I don't know yet if it will also work for LnS, but time will prove.

    I also think, that not many FDISR-users use a frozen snapshot, because a frozen snapshot is a total different world, than a normal snapshot and it has its own specific problems. They might use a frozen snapshot occassionally, but that is not enough to detect this problem and not all of them use LnS either. I still don't know if LnS or FDISR or LnS+FDISR is the problem.

    My online snapshot is frozen CONSTANTLY, but I still have to learn how to work with such a snapshot and I mean the total picture, not just solving one little problem, like the icon problem.
    I also have to find the RIGHT security softwares to protect it against infections in the period between two reboots.

    Of course I can do like anybody else and protect a normal on-line snapshot with a classical security setup, but that would bore me to death, because I already know that this would work also.
    I consider my frozen on-line snapshot as a personal experiment and my off-line snapshot is my haven of refuge, if something goes wrong in my on-line snapshot and I still have my images to solve the worst disasters.
    Since I have my new computer in march 2006, I've spent all my freetime on RECOVERY, not on security. That's the next step, because I have my own plan and I don't care what other people think about this.
    If these people want to spend their time on scanning their computer for hours to remove infections INCOMPLETELY and overload their computer with many security softwares, that's their choice, not mine. :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2007
  5. EASTER.2010

    EASTER.2010 Guest

    Exactly why i prefer to depend on Power Shadow for those duties when i absolutely positively need a FREEZED snapshot plus eleviates another lengthy learning curve with all the freeze-unfreeze-re-freeze scenarios and holding my breathe :blink: everything will turn out exactly as expected
     
  6. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    I don't understand what PowerShadow has to do with Freeze/Unfreeze.
    Freeze and Unfreeze are used to maintain frozen snapshots.
    The problem is fixed.
     
  7. EASTER.2010

    EASTER.2010 Guest

    PS offers virtual freeze and maintains your configuration in order to return it again to it's same state before shadowing. Basically the same principle applies wouldn't you think?
     
  8. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    PowerShadow doesn't replace a frozen snapshot completely and I still don't know how it works in snapshots. I asked you, but you never gave an explanation. :)
     
  9. EASTER.2010

    EASTER.2010 Guest

    Power Shadow doesn't replace a frozen FD snapshot at all, because it's not FD nor is it designed to be, but what it does do is shadow any snapshot in a tightly protected virtualized environment and thus preserves the original state of that snapshot from any changes after the reboot from shadow-mode.

    How exactly it works? I don't read chinese and i don't have the luxury of time to make acquaintences with either it's developers or those familiar enough with it to provide you (AND ME) with all the answers you seek.

    I do know it WORKS! and for me anyway PERFECTLY! and i've hammered it with rootkits/malware inside the shadowed volume without fail a simple reboot returned the system to it's former glorified state minus any traces of a change in either settings ot otherwise.
     
  10. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    You summed all the reasons for me not to use PowerShadow. I have already PowerShadow and a better one. :)
     
  11. EASTER.2010

    EASTER.2010 Guest

    If you also take into consideration WORKS! and PERFECTLY! by not just my results but the many other reports posted and enjoyed by all those many satisfied users/customers, then one might could be lead to wonder with some serious reservations, just what that statement indirectly indicates about that decision of yours.

    I understand ErikAlbert your most concern is how it functions COMPLETELY! and is the basis for steering away from PS for you, but also many other softwares including FD-ISR itself do themselves a favor by respecting at least some degree of TM trade-secrets that protect their intellectual rights to business which position them as a marketable commodity. In this case, an electronic software program.

    I don't need to discuss in depth the differences, and neither should you when it comes to "light" and "less space" as concerns PS compared to FD's freeze-mode which also is subject to confusion if not fully understood. Power Shadow straight out-of-the-box is ready to cover a volume/partition and is easy to use as it is simple for first-time users to understand and enjoy that feature with immediate results.
     
  12. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    I don't need to know how it functions technically, but I need to know how I can use it.
    PowerShadow knows only harddisks and partitions and doesn't know what snapshots are.
    I'm not going to spend my time to find out what kind of problems might occur regarding snapshots because there is nobody to support me, except Chinese people, a language I don't speak.
    You only focus on PS itself. For me PS has to fit in a total solution for a work environment, not for a test environment.
    PS is for me a DOUBLE software without support and enough information.
    I don't need something I already have. I need something, I don't have.

    I had a little problem with Freeze/Unfreeze. I don't fix my little problems with using ANOTHER software, I fix it in the solution I already have and that is FDISR, not PS. And AGAIN, I can't fix my problems with speed and less space, because they are not functions or procedures. If you don't understand that, then we will talk and waste our time forever.

    The Freeze/Unfreeze problem seems to be fixed :
    1. Look'n'Stop remembers its new authorizations.
    2. New icons are keeping their positions on the desktop.
    Case closed. :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2007
  13. EASTER.2010

    EASTER.2010 Guest

    If Power Shadow has a drawback at all i would tend to agree because Chineez is not on my to-do list of learnings to take on any time in the near or distant future myself. :isay:

    I would venture to say even without going out on a limb, that PS is still worth the effort in BOTH a work & test environment but i also fully understand your position and whats expected in your current situation, so given those expectations you list, in it's current state it can't offer your environment whats expected of it, and thats the bottom line.

    Glad you got that sorted out to your satisfaction and in timely fashion too. See? FD-ISR doesn't leave one groping for very long on issues.
     
  14. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    I started to get curious about PowerShadow, but since I am fortunate that Sandboxie plays for me it does offer a couple of advantages.

    1) I can go surf and play on the web, and when done, I don't need to reboot, I just delete the sandbox

    2) On the other hand if for some reason I don't want to delete the sandbox just yet, I can just leave it, and it stays intact thru reboots.

    I have found this scenario works best for me, leaving fdISR for the more major stuff, like software tests.
     
  15. EASTER.2010

    EASTER.2010 Guest

    Yeah, i never had a problem with HOW sandboxie works and found it to my advantage for just those things you point out. The sandbox is there if you want or you can empty it.
    I been after that program for a long time and tried several versions with the same results though, instability :( I'm still holding out for that one version i can finally get to prove totally compatible without quirks or slowdowns. I went thru the same marathon session with snoopfree, no matter what it just wouldn't cooperate untill this latest "free" version of all things, and like magic it's been quietly working the background without a single hiss. I'm a patient man :D
     
  16. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    I consider Sandboxie as a possible in my frozen snapshot, but Sandboxie doesn't cover everything.

    If a malware bypasses my firewall of straw, I'm still infected.
    If a malware bypasses Sandboxie, I'm still infected.
    If a malware bypasses Anti-Executable, I'm still infected.
    If a malware bypasses ANY other security software, I'm still infected.
    My frozen snapshot will remove all these infections as a CHANGE during reboot.
     
  17. aigle

    aigle Registered Member

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    Hi Eric, I think the change of position of Icons is not so important. It might be something in XP itself. I have encountered it with ATI as well.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2007
  18. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    The icons wasn't really a problem, but LnS didn't remember its new authorizations and that was annoying.
    I think that my new method of re-freezing, solved more problems than icons and LnS only, but there is no proof of it.
     
  19. tradetime

    tradetime Registered Member

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    Hi Erik, so if I am working with a frozen snapshot and I want to keep changes, say security and program updates, maybe a program setting modification, having done what I need to do, I should unfreeze, reboot, freeze and reboot? Is this correct.
     
  20. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    Yes, that is correct and this seems to work everytime.
    Freeze and reboot will probably work most of the time, but not always.
    It's a mistery, that "Freeze + Reboot" (according the manual) isn't always enough.
     
  21. aigle

    aigle Registered Member

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    I think, instead, it should be--- unfreeze, reboot, update/ modify as needed, freeze, and reboot.
    Am I correct Eric?
     
  22. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    Yes I think you are right. I only tested with icons not updatings.

    1. UNFREEZE makes the freeze storage INACTIVE.
    2. REBOOT
    3. UPDATING and CHANGES
    4. Scan and clean computer + history cleaning
    5. FREEZE updates the freeze storage.arx
    6. REBOOT

    Warning !!! Keep the Freeze Storage as CLEAN as POSSIBLE
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2007
  23. tradetime

    tradetime Registered Member

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    Cool thanx guys, understand all that.
     
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