First Defense

Discussion in 'FirstDefense-ISR Forum' started by maddawgz, Sep 17, 2005.

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  1. maddawgz

    maddawgz Registered Member

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    Hi all..I made a snapshot yday but had to go back to it as bad program was installed..anyhow i noticed now the one i created is now got a green arrow next to it..and it says primary on yellow one underneath?? Now i booted to this snaphot do i need to make a new one or can i keep using the same snapshot to boot back too... like if i get a virus later will this snapshot b ok still..even thought is primary that make sense i uploaded a picture thanks MD o_O
     

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  2. Acadia

    Acadia Registered Member

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    Re: First Defence

    Use the Sept.18 Snapshot to update the Primary, that way the Primary will be identical to the Sept.18; you would have taken the Primary "back in time" and the bad software program will be gone.

    Acadia
     
  3. maddawgz

    maddawgz Registered Member

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    Re: First Defence

    ok thanks for that but I've gone back in time already and its gone that picture taken when i went back? so do i still update the 18th thanks Acadia
     
  4. Acadia

    Acadia Registered Member

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    Re: First Defence

    maddawgz, sorry, I'm not sure exactly what you're asking.

    Was the bad software program only on the Primary Snapshot and not on the Sept.18 Snapshot? When you booted over to the Sept.18 Snapshot, did you then use the Sept.18 Snapshot to update the Primary Snapshot?

    If you did that, then YES, the bad software program will be gone and you can now reboot back into the Primary Snapshot and continue using it. Good luck.

    Acadia
     
  5. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Re: First Defence

    Hi Acadia

    Have you updated to the new build of FDISR. It's reallllllly neat.

    Pete
     
  6. Acadia

    Acadia Registered Member

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    Re: First Defence

    Yes, I have Peter .. FUN TIME!!

    Acadia
     
  7. maddawgz

    maddawgz Registered Member

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    Re: First Defence

    ok thanks got it...btw how u get the newer version?? whats different in it? :D
     
  8. Acadia

    Acadia Registered Member

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    Re: First Defence

    http://www.raxco.com/support/windows/SupportOptions.cfm

    Just follow the instructions on the above link and they will send you to another link where you can download the new version; will not cost you a dime. Main change in the new version is the ability to archive Snapshots onto another hard drive; the archived Snapshots are not bootable like the regular Snapshots but there is also no limit (other than drive space) to how many of them that you want to store (whereas the regular Snapshots limit you to ten). :cool:

    Acadia
     
  9. WWS

    WWS Registered Member

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    Re: First Defence

    Or instead of rebooting after you've updated the "Primary" using Sept. 18 as the source, rename what was the "Primary" to the present date (Sept 19?). And then rename the "Sept. 18" (the green one) to "Primary."
     
  10. Acadia

    Acadia Registered Member

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    Re: First Defence

    As I understand it, it is best to always keep your primary snapshot (which was your original c:drive) always as your primary because that is the one and only snapshot that you should never delete. All Snapshots that you create can be deleted; the primary was never created, it always was. If you rename your Primary you may forget which one it is and accidently delete it; then you could have some real problems.

    Acadia
     
  11. WWS

    WWS Registered Member

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    Re: First Defence

    Hello Acadia,
    Here's what I wrote to Raxco about renaming snapshots and their answer..

    -----Original Message-----
    From:
    Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 22:41
    To: Windows_support
    Subject: Product Support Request for FirstDefense-ISR - Purchased - Software Assurance or Maintenance customer
    Product: FirstDefense-ISR
    Product Version: v 2.14.122
    Software Status: Purchased - Software Assurance or Maintenance customer
    Registration:
    Issue: General Question

    Problem Description: Let's say while working in the Primary (green arrow) I download a bad program. I then boot into a 2 day old Secondary snapshot. While in the Secondary snap I update the Primary snap using the Secondary as the source. When that's done, both snaps are now identical. Considering that the Secondary now has the green arrow is there any difference whether I just rename the snapshots or should I re-boot back to the Primary? Either way, I'm still 2 days back in time, yes?


    Hi ,
    Yes, you are correct. No, it doesn't matter what you call them as long as they make sense to you :)
    Regards,
    Jason Claiborne
    Senior Systems Engineer
    Windows Software Support
    301.519.7888
    On the Web @ http://www.raxco.com/support/windows/
     
  12. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Re: First Defence

    Hi WWS

    Based on the way you worded your question Jason from Raxco gave you a very correct answer. But if you were asking if you can treat the snapshots equally, I would answer both yes and no. Yes from the stand point that you can do almost anything in a secondary snapshot that you can do in the primary. But just remember the primary snaphot is your system before you installed First Defense. Everything you add when you install First Defense, including snapshots are installed in a hidden folder under your C:\ drive. In that sense they aren't equal. While you can indeed install and uinstall software from any snapshot, I wouldn't want to try to do a complete uinstall of FDISR, including removing all snapshots, from anything but the primary snapshot.

    Partly what Jason was saying is it doesn't matter what you call them as long as you can keep track of them. What I am adding is there is a good reason for keeping track of them.

    What I do is generally stay in the primary snapshot keeping the secondary snaphot for safety. Occasionally if I want to do something like install a program that I know I will want to remove, I will boot the secondary snapshot, install and test or play around, then boot back to the primary and refresh the secondary.

    In reality you can work many ways. You just want to be careful not to shoot yourself in the foot.

    Pete
     
  13. WWS

    WWS Registered Member

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    Re: First Defence

    Hi Peter2150..I see where you're coming from.

    The point I was trying to make, in the example I gave him, is that the difference between the Primary and Secondary is time and content. The Secondary was 2 days older and some files were excluded when it was created. The Primary is 2 days younger and has those excluded files plus whatever more it accumulated in those 2 days.

    So, if I went back to the Secondary and updated the Primary from there, I'd have lost those newer files.

    And I've done that..but before I booted back, I saved what files I didn't want to lose to a second drive or removable media. (don't forget e-mail)
    Same thing as going back to the Secondary and uninstalling FD and the Primary...you'd just wind up with 2 day old image.

    So, that's the damage that can be done.

    The more I think about, your way sounds better.
    Rebooting is fast enough.
     
  14. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Re: First Defence

    Hi WWS

    I am not sure you still realize the difference in snapshots. Yes one factor might be time, but thats not all. In simple terms think of your hard drive before you install FDISR. You have the root c:\ and directories under that. (simple example excluding partitions etc.) Then you install FDISR. It creates a hidden directory $ISR under c:\. The program and any snapshots you create are kept there. These area's are well protected under without getting into ownership, permissioning etc, you can't get in. Your primary snapshot is really your original system as it existed prior to installing FDISR. When you create an additional snapshot the files are copied into the new directories which are still within the original c: structure.

    I don't know what would happen if you tried to do a complete uninstall, removing snapshots, from within a secondary snapshot. My hope is it wouldn't work.

    If you want to see what I am talking about go into windows explorer and set your folder options to view hidden and system files. There you will see the structure, although you can't get into it.

    Just understand this so you don't get into trouble.

    Pete
     
  15. WWS

    WWS Registered Member

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    Re: First Defence

    For what it’s worth: it works.

    Here's what I did Saturday morning.

    I booted into the secondary snapshot and while there I “removed” the primary snapshot. The only result was that the used space on C drive went down about 50%, as expected.

    Next, I completely uninstalled FDISR through Add/Remove. (Chose “Remove All” not “Just Program Only.”)

    Then, starting fresh, I reinstalled FDISR and created a secondary snapshot. Now C drive doubled, as expected.
    Next, I booted into the secondary snapshot and this time I completely “uninstalled” FDISR from the secondary snapshot. (again, chose “Remove All” not “Just Program Only.”)

    Prior to doing all this, I had prepared an image of C drive and an FDISR snapshot, both archived to my second HDD just in case something went wrong.

    Finally, I reinstalled FD and imported that archived snapshot and I’m back to where I started. No problems.

    (another quote: "No, it doesn't matter what you call them as long as they make sense to you."
    Regards,
    Jason Claiborne)
     
  16. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Re: First Defence

    Hi WWS

    Fantastic, and many thanks for your experiment. I am even more in awe of this program. Just tonight I installed a beta and didn't quite do it right, ending up with a machine that wouldn't boot. 5 minute fix. Again thanks for trying what you did and posting.

    Pete
     
  17. Acadia

    Acadia Registered Member

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    Re: First Defence

    VERY interesting WWS, thanks for being willing to make yourself the guinea pig! :cool:

    Acadia
     
  18. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Re: First Defence

    Hi Acadia

    Would you have tried that. I am afraid I'd be to chicken. Gosh it really amazes me how effective this program has become. Again to WWS, THANKS!!!

    Pete
     
  19. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Re: First Defence

    UPDATE to the above.

    I just had an interesting conversion with Jason at Raxco on another issue, and brought up this thread. I think what Acadia and I were saying really holds.

    Jason said, that what happens at install is the program creates a primary snapshot by changing pointers in the mbr. Thus your original drive is the primary snapshot. That is why it is quick. Then when you creat a secondary snapshot it is done by copying. When you do a total uninstall the additional added snapshots are removed and pointers reset. What this means is:

    Say on Day 1 you install FDISR, and also create a secondary snapshot. You now switch to the secondary snapshot and work there until Day 5. At this point you have a Primary snapshot at time Day 1 and a secondary snapshot at time Day 5. You decide to do a total uninstall, but don't refresh the primary snapshot, you just uninstall from the secondary snapshot since it is current. What happens is:

    FDISR removes the additionally created snapshot(the secondary) and resets the pointers. You know are back on your original drive as it was on Day 1. Oops.

    This is why it is wise to always consider the primary snapshot as unique and treat it as such.

    Pete
     
  20. mattc

    mattc Guest

    It was taking me an eternity to use this program

    I use goback on one of my systems and true image on 2 others. I was really interested in first defense and I tried the trial. I have about 25 gigs on a 200 gig WD 200. It indicated it was going to take a long time, (can't recall), but I think we are talking hours.

    Is it possible that it's that slow? I was running to a usb2 external 300 seagate. I can image the entire drive with true image in approx. 15-18 min.

    This program really sounded great, but not at the expense of tying up the system for such long periods of time.

    I sure would appreciate your thoughts on this.

    Thanks.
     
  21. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Re: It was taking me an eternity to use this program

    Hi Mattc

    I would guess based on my experience that with 25gigs the time you build a snapshot, it might take about an hour. Unless you are true imaging into the secure zone you must be going to an external drive so yes it is quicker. Also it doesn't have to map your files. But after you build the snapshot the first time refreshes will be must faster. On my drive with my data size, a first snapshot will take about 35 to 40 minutes, but the refreshes on average take a little less then 5 minutes.

    I can tell you it has saved me many times, from a badly trashed computer.

    Pete
     
  22. NAMOR

    NAMOR Registered Member

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    Re: It was taking me an eternity to use this program

    Sorry for being off-topic...

    I think it did just save my butt. Tonight I install the newest version on Zonealarm on a computer that I formatted 4 days ago. After ZA was installed, I rebooted. For some reason I believe that either Windowblinds or DesktopX was causing some problems with the new install. After I logging on to my account, the ZA window popped up that asks you to select trial, purchase, or enter key. While this window was open I could see some of my programs loading via the task bar. As soon a Windowblinds appeared in the task bar my computer would lock up. Used FristDefense to get my computer up and running to the state before the ZA install. So I’m pretty much sold. BTW thanks again Acadia for answering my quick question..
     
  23. Acadia

    Acadia Registered Member

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    Your welcome, NAMOR, ironically enough, I also had to use FD last evening when a new build to one of my programs rendered my system unbootable. Did the exact same thing that you did, booted into one of my older Snaps, updated my Primary with the older one, bingo, Primary was as good as new. Needless to say, I am NOT going to be upgrading to that new build ... it did not contain anything important anyway ... thank you, First Defense ... AGAIN! :cool:

    Acadia
     
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