First Defense Will Not Boot Into Primary

Discussion in 'FirstDefense-ISR Forum' started by silver0066, Jul 8, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. silver0066

    silver0066 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2004
    Posts:
    929
    I copied the my Test Snapshot to Primary before installing a small program. I did not like it and booted to Primary. My Dell laptop would not boot. Did not even get to the Welcome screen. Just a black screen after starting Windows.

    It used to work great. I am very disappointed with this program. Does anyone have any suggestions?

    Many thanks
     
  2. silver0066

    silver0066 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2004
    Posts:
    929
    Additional Info:

    It will, however, still boot to the Test Snapshot. I am using the latest version from Raxco. WindowsXP Pro on Dell XPS laptop. After the "starting windows" screen, the hard drive just stops and the machine stops with a blank screen. I have to turn off the power and restart. Then I hit F1 and can only boot to the Test Snapshot. This is consistent.

    Should I reinstall First Defense? I will see if anyone has had this problem before I do this as I would really like to get back the Primary.

    Many thanks for any help.
     
  3. sukarof

    sukarof Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2004
    Posts:
    1,714
    Location:
    Stockholm Sweden
    Just for reference: I have been using FDISR (raxco) for over a year, making/copying numerous of snapshots, and have not encountered such problem, nor have I seen anyone here at wilders experience it. It seems to me that somehow your copying went wrong. I assume you did not get any warnings? Have you looked at the logs of FDISR to see what they say? (tools/activity log.) Best thing is to file a support ticket at raxco, maybe you´ve found some kind of bug. I am sure they would be interrested.

    Do you have any HIPS like Online armour, Prevx, Tiny Personal Firewall, Appdefend/regdefend and so on? (just naming a few for reference) because if one blocks the wrong thing in such apps when they are configured will very effectively disturb programs like FDISR.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2006
  4. starfish_001

    starfish_001 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2005
    Posts:
    1,041
    I doubt reinstalling will fix your problem. FD sounds like it is working the data in the snapshot is probably not complete. Do you have errors in the log. Or is the icon for the snapshot different to the others?


    I would create another snapshot and copy your working windows to it and then try again.
     
  5. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Posts:
    9,455
    I don't understand.
    Assuming that your primary snapshot was a healthy snapshot, why would you copy a test snapshot to the primary snapshot,
    unless you approved the software(s) installed on the test snapshot.
    Maybe you did a copy/update with the wrong source and destination shapshot and that can happen if you think wrongly.
    Maybe you should give us a more detailed description of what you did exactly and maybe we can explain what you did wrong.

    Besides that, why couldn't you recover your system partition with a previous image backup o_O
     
  6. silver0066

    silver0066 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2004
    Posts:
    929
    No Errors in the log. What do you mean regarding the icon.? The Test snapshot has a green triangle and the Primary snapshot has a yellow triangle icon when I manage FDISR. I will will make another new snapshot with my TEST, call it TEST2, and see if I can boot into that. I want to preserve the Primary if possible.
     
  7. silver0066

    silver0066 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2004
    Posts:
    929
    What difference does it make why I do it that way? I use my Test snapshot for trying out software. If I don't like the software, I boot to the Primary. If I like it, I copy the Test to the Primary. That way, I keep the Primary up to date.

    I did not copy with the wrong source or destination.

    Give me an idea of what more details I can give you. I thought I explained the situation clearly.
     
  8. silver0066

    silver0066 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2004
    Posts:
    929
    I have been using it also for over a month with no problems. I did not get any warnings. No errors in the logs. I will file a ticket. I am running Nod 32 and ZoneAlarm Pro, latest versions.

    Thanks for your help
     
  9. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Posts:
    9,455
    Maybe your test snapshot wasn't healthy and by copy/updating your test snapshot to your primary, you screwed up your primary snapshot.
    In such situation I would recover my system partition with a previous image backup. I guess you don't have a previous image backup.

    EDIT:
    If I start testing software, I always have two healthy snapshots 1 & 2, and one test snapshot #3.
    If it's ok I copy snapshot 3 to 2 and reboot in the snapshot 2.
    In my experience a system partition can work properly, until you reboot and suddenly it doesn't work anymore, because you did a reboot.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2006
  10. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2003
    Posts:
    17,040
    Silver

    Can you boot into safe mode in the primary. That may help you at least get some stuff out of the primary. Otherwise you might have to do a copy refreshing your primary to the state of the one you can boot to, and see if that solves it.

    I always update an off disk archive for just this contingency.

    Pete
     
  11. wilbertnl

    wilbertnl Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2004
    Posts:
    1,850
    Location:
    Tulsa, Oklahoma
    Hello silver0066,

    This is what I understand from your information:
    You have one healthy backup snapshot, called Primary, and one test snapshot called Test, which was healthy and up to date.
    Before your evaluation of new software you copied the working Test over Primary.
    You evaluate new software and want to revert to the status before evaluation, so you boot into primary in order to make Test identical to Primary again.
    No error messages occured, but you are not able to boot into Primary.

    Could it be that you have a file system problem? Is it possible to run the following command in the Test snapshot?
    Code:
    c:\>chkdsk c: /r
    Are you able to start Primary into Last Known Good Configuration? (http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/boot_last_good.mspx?mfr=true)

    What happens when you copy Primary into a new snapshot, called Second Primary.
    Does the problem persist when you boot into Second Primary? Any error messages after that copy action?
     
  12. silver0066

    silver0066 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2004
    Posts:
    929
    I made a brand new snapshot called "Copy of Test". Same problem, it will not boot into the new copy but will boot into "Test". It will, however, boot into Safe Mode in "Copy of Test". This leads me to believe there are some real bugs in this software. I do have backup images, but this is not why I purchased FDISR. It really saps my confidence in this software. I had the same problems with RollbackRx after a few weeks, as it kept asking for me to do chkdsks and then would not boot.

    I will try a chkdsk /r and report back my results.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2006
  13. silver0066

    silver0066 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2004
    Posts:
    929
    I did the chkdsk /r from the "Test" snapshot. The volume is clean. I also copied the "Primary" snapshot to "Copy of Test" from the "Test" snapshot with no errors. It will not boot. I now have three snapshots. Test, Primary and Copy of Test. It will only boot into the "Test" snapshot. This leads me to believe there are major bugs in this program. This is a major disapointment as it has worked flawlessly for the last several weeks. I will now submit a trouble ticket to Raxco to see if they can be of any help. If not, I will ask for a refund and go back to ShadowUser.
     
  14. Acadia

    Acadia Registered Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2002
    Posts:
    4,048
    Location:
    SouthCentral PA
    There are two ways of booting into other Snapshots. Are you getting the Pre-Boot Screen? Are you using KAV version 5.0?

    Acadia
     
  15. silver0066

    silver0066 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2004
    Posts:
    929
    Yes, I am getting the Pre Boot Screen. I have tried both ways to boot into the snapshots, neither works. I am not using KAV.
     
  16. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2003
    Posts:
    17,040
    Hi Silver

    Lets step back. Let me review to be sure I understand.

    You've been using FDISR for a while, and it has worked fine, but now you are in Snapshot test, and installed something you don't want to keep. But you can't boot to Primary. By not being able to boot, FDISR, swaps to primary and starts to boot, but the boot fails as windows is loading.

    You then made a copy of test, and the same thing happens there.

    Am I correct in assuming that when you last left the primary snapshot it was fine, but without updating it you now can't boot to it?

    Have you checked to see if there were errors, and if so what they were in the logs.

    Since you are essentially stuck in test but can boot to it, what I would try is disabling NOD, and in Zone Alarm set it so it doesn't start on reboot. Then I'd reboot, do a refresh of copy of test, and then see if you can boot to it. Obviously Primary is corrupt so I doubt your going to get back into it. If that doesn't work then it's time for Raxco support. I would email them rather then go the standard support ticket. Either Acadia or I can give you the contact to email.

    Pete
     
  17. silver0066

    silver0066 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2004
    Posts:
    929
    Thanks for your help, you are correct in your assumptions.

    I decided to uninstall/reinstall FDISR. After doing this and preserving my old settings, I was still not able to boot into "Primary" or "Copy of Test". I then updated "Primary" and "Copy of Test" from "Test".

    It now will boot into all three identical snapshots. It appears that the program itself somehow got corrupted, which is strange since I received no errors either in the updating process or the logs and the Pre Boot Screen came up okay.

    Anyway, thank you all for your suggestions. The result of all this is that I lost my Primary Snapshot. I have also lost some confidence in the program. I will continue to use it along with Acronis True Image backups to see if this occurs again. I understand that an update has been issued by Leapfrog and maybe it will fix the problem when Raxco gets around to posting the update.

    I guess I am back in business for the moment at least. Thanks again to all of you for your help.

    Bill
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2006
  18. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Posts:
    9,455
    After installing any software and even when a software seems to work properly after installation, you have to TEST the REBOOT also with the new software on it.
     
  19. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2003
    Posts:
    17,040
    Hi Bill

    You aren't by chance using a back up program Bounceback, by CMS. That will I believe corrupt FDISR. It did for me, and I reinstalled everything to confirm and it did indeed do it again.

    Pete

    PS. I would maintain a series of archives on an external drive. That would have saved your primary here.
     
  20. silver0066

    silver0066 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2004
    Posts:
    929
    No, I am using Acronis True Image Workstation for my backups.

    I do not see how maintaining a series of archives on an external drive would have helped this problem. From my tests, it appears that the FDISR program itself was corrupted, thus corrupting the snapshots. I believe that archived snapshots would have been corrupted also. I can always get back an older snapshot of my system using Acronis if the situation warrants it.

    I have never dealt with Raxco Tech Support and plan on calling them on Monday to see if they can track down the problem. I have heard on this forum that they are responsive.
     
  21. crofttk

    crofttk Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2004
    Posts:
    1,976
    Location:
    Eastern PA, USA
    Just bear in mind that they're not exactly obliged to be responsive when you ask for support on a LeapFrog version if you've installed that instead of a version released by Raxco.

    Your archive snapshots, had you any, may or may not have been corrupted. I have a hard time imagining them or the program, either one, being corrupted, personally. But I won't debate your own personal observations, especially since I know nothing of the software you tested. I agree, in any event, with Peter's recommendation that you keep archives on another drive. Sometimes that's the most direct route to a recovery and it takes no more time to refresh than an ATI incremental backup, perhaps even less.
     
  22. wilbertnl

    wilbertnl Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2004
    Posts:
    1,850
    Location:
    Tulsa, Oklahoma
    Well, if that is true, then your final copy/update actions from Test to Primary and Copy of ... would have failed too.
    But you are saying that you have three identical and bootable snapshots, right?

    I think that you ran in a rare incident that turned into a disaster for you.
     
  23. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Posts:
    9,455
    What happened here, won't shake my confidence in FD-ISR.
    I don't know what exactly happened. I don't even know which software(s) have been tried. I don't see any description of the steps that have been taken.
    I can destroy my primary snapshot also, if I want too.
     
  24. silver0066

    silver0066 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2004
    Posts:
    929
    I am using Raxco's version. The software I tested was a program called MvReader. I have now uninstalled it and removed all references to it in my registry as I lost my Primary. I had not booted to the Primary for several days, so I really do not know what caused FDISR to become corrupted. I always boot to the "Test" snapshot and use the "Primary" for my updates. This may seem backwards to many, but it is logical to me.

    I agree with you in that I had a hard time imagining that the program could be corrupted, but when I made a full and fresh copy of my "Test" snapshot and it would consistently not boot, it convinced me that something was wrong with the FDISR program. Upon reinstalling the program, the problem was somehow fixed, although only after re-copying the "Test" snapshot to the "Primary" and the "Copy of Test" snapshots.
     
  25. silver0066

    silver0066 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2004
    Posts:
    929
    Are you insinuating that I wanted to destroy my Primary snapshot? If so, you are a fool.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.