FDISR and Imaging

Discussion in 'FirstDefense-ISR Forum' started by Peter2150, May 23, 2007.

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  1. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    The question is often asked, Do I need to image if I have FDISR. I can tell you after tonight, the answer is an unqualifed yes.

    Got a bit sloppy on my main business machine. Hadn't sync'd data in a couple of days, and also hadn't updated FDISR archive in a couple of days. Only smart thing was having a Shadowprotect job running taking 30 minute incrementals.

    Then stupidity struck. I was leaving and inititated a system shutdown. Without thinking and not checking to be sure the system was really off, I switched off the APC. Oops.

    Later when I went to fire up, the system wouldn't boot. Got past FDISR preboot and nothing. Hmm. Okay. So I thought lets boot to secondary and contemplate the next step. Same thing in the secondary, system wouldn't boot. Not good.

    Booted to the SP recovery disk, and it booted fine. I could see disks so hardware seemed okay. Restored the image, and then the system booted fine.

    Moral of the story is FDISR is fantastic, but imaging is also VERY important.

    Pete
     
  2. EASTER.2010

    EASTER.2010 Guest

    Hello Pete. EASTER again.

    This Topic couldn't be any more timely, that is unless it had been brought out sooner. For anyone who would measure my own experience with FD-ISR i'll tell you i'm only but a few weeks of having FD-ISR myself where many of you have been using it since 2006.
    So i am actively still making discoveries as to the absolute best or i should say, most safest methods to PRESERVE FirstDefense snapshots & archives in an unlikely but very possible event that anything can and will happen go wrong for us at the most inopportunes of time and carry the potential of leaving us grapling for a quick resolution to any dilema including HD failure.

    Of course, and as you so rightly point out Pete, IMAGING is also our very last avenue of escape from certain diaster which in this case equates to complete data/system loss.

    Thankfully, Leapfrog has already made an important provision for us in the program itself with the feature of allowing changing ARCHIVES location as well i assume the EXPORT feature which i've only begin to touch on myself.
    I recently experienced ARCHIVE corruption in an alternate location i kept some stored aside from the default FD-ISR locale at $ISR folder in C:\. This happened on the same drive as FD-ISR to one of the 3 partitions i selected to store them at and they were rendered contaminated. This WAS NOT fd-isr's doing but from a late night registry cleaner i shouldn't have bothered with which removed references that caused CHKDSK on the next reboot to regard them as removable and proceeded to do some delete actions which effectively without remedy scrapped my archives save only 2.
    Since FD-ISR is more forgiving thanks in most part to ability to recreate them on-the-fly, i was able to make over the ARCHIVES again as b4. Problem Solved!

    Since that experience i now taken the liberty to change ARCHIVE location in the FD Manager and store the complete compliment of snapshots i have via ARCHIVES to a newly zeroed & reinstalled (Separate) Hard Drive set up as a Slave and when finished that HD gets pulled out and put away for emergency. So even if my most active work HD happens to suffer any inconveniences whatsoever, i should be able to reconstruct my system again, completely intact, directly from those stored ARCHIVES. That's my alternate recovery disaster plan.

    I suppose even CLONING to an alternate drive would also have the same affect howbeit much quicker, and i am a big advocate of speed. The less downtown to recover the better.

    This is also where Peter2150's solution above and experience awakens that importance again of IMAGING. With the right imaging program that can prove itself dependable time and again, we can take the same precautions and surely save ourselves BOTH downtime and frustrations from complete data/system loss. I can't speak for Vista but with XP another critical and potential disappointment exists even if you image! Please feel free to correct me if i'm wrong but any hardware change except changing Hard Drives or the Power Supply can have adverse reaction with your currently installed XP system and render even those no solution. I'm suggesting if our motherboard needed replacement maybe. I recall once running XP Pro with a Nvidia Video Card for quite sometime and one day decided to just pull it and change the BIOS settings to run my OnBoard Video and upon first reboot i got met with a BlueScreen stating something to the effect that Windows could not continue because "this could be because of a Hardware Change", "if this is the first time you seen this you can try to restart Windows again" Blah, blah, blah.

    In effect, i was forced to forego that change and reseat the Nvidia Video Card before i could even continue to use my system.

    Very Important piece Pete, imaging is ONE of our very last rescues bar none others except maybe a duplicate drive CLONED. LoL :)
     
  3. flinchlock

    flinchlock Registered Member

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    YES, very important!

    It is also very important to have a paper document how you installed every piece of software in order to rebuild your system from scratch in the event imaging totally fails. I had a Ghost image that was corrupt, and thank the god of your choice, I had a PRINTED 25 page Word doc!! Over time as I discover little tweaks and new program options, I scribble on my paper print out, AND update my rebuild document.

    That is also my experience, the mobo. I have not really hard too many video problems over the years (fingers crossed).

    How true, how true.

    Mike

    P.S. Does anyone have the FD-ISR "Tools > Options > Tasks > Verify destination snapshot after copy" checked?
     
  4. EASTER.2010

    EASTER.2010 Guest

    Sure didn't but thanks to your mention i do now. :D

    In the end theres only one totally safe disaster recovery that i can think of, and that takes us back to CLONING again. Sector for sector and file by file complete duplication to another Hard Drive including MBR/Partition etc. IMAGES can and WILL fail, but your CLONE cannot unless the drive you cloned to was already defective IMO.

    I'll admit right here and now that i never trusted and never will with complete confidence any IMAGE. They are no more than a file and files can be tampered with either thru the imaging program Burps! or the system itself it rests on IMO. I guess the same could be said for FD-ISR archives, but get this, i place far more trust in those than i ever did images. That's not to say IMAGING is all that much a Risk, but from my experiences with them they are just that, a risk! and one i am very suspicious about.

    I hope that ShadowProtect can finally emerge as the remedy for this nagging suspicion of mine in IMAGING. Otherwise i will remain a dedicated CLONER!!:D
     
  5. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Hi Folks.

    I don't have that FDISR verify checked and never have. I've been using FDISR for a good 3 years at least, and if a copy goes with no errors I've never had an issue.

    On the imaging. My big concern on the dummy I did last night was a hardware problem. What I did, for sure isn't a recommended shutdown procedure. The image I had, was the collaspsed image of a base and 43 incrementals and I had verified it, but not test restored. Once I booted to the recovery cd and could see the drives, I was much happier, and I figured if there were no errors during the restore then the disks were fine. That was the case and reboot was non eventful.

    Pete
     
  6. flinchlock

    flinchlock Registered Member

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    Maybe the verify would be used only for snaps to DVD??

    Mike
     
  7. EASTER.2010

    EASTER.2010 Guest

    EUREKA!!

    I do believe i can finally settle on my winner. I finally managed time today to actually IMAGE a few of my partitions (First), then went in and deleted everything visible except of course System Volume Information/Recycler, and BOTH the imaging and restores went off without a hitch.
    Next i proceeded to HOT! image the very system i was working in and that also went over with flying colors thanks to PARAGON DRIVE IMAGE PRO.
    It's been under my severest scrutiny & review for awhile now since encountering some not so pleasant results before. I have to conclude now that it was either another app that might have been responsible for those glitches or else today was my lucky day. :D

    I might finally can ween myself away completely from the CLONE craze i thought i would always be limited to after these successes.

    One partition of 80GB w/ approx. 50 GB data took a little over an hour, which beats my own best time before by a whopping margin. Restores went perfectly. FD-ISR and snapshots/archives completely intact and working.
    This is a big deal for me, since this is one area i been sorely lacking in for a very long time. The drought is over. LoL
     
  8. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Excellent.
     
  9. EASTER.2010

    EASTER.2010 Guest

    I'll say. They can call me biased or whatever but from a personal preference i've narrowed my choices down to only 2 that i feel that i can trust, and i not even dabbled with Shadow Protect yet, but from all indications i seen so far it holds high expectations for making a very strong run at the leaders if everything proceeds as has already been mentioned and they market it reasonably enough for also so the home users can claim some advantage to preserving and even trasferring their systems, completely intact, as in Universal Restore.

    I just like to add a little something more that this Topic Title already touches on but needs expressing over and over again. Thanks a million times over to Leapfrog Team for all their efforts in this FirstDefense now BootBack recovery solution. I honestly can't remember when i personally been more excited over a single program like FD-ISR is proven to be, or been able to enjoy more confidence thanks in whole to this cleverly designed application. When i posted in another thread referencing the term "Near Perfect", that is my 100% honest assessment from actual results. Many of you already dicovered this long before i entered the picture, but your own satisfaction back then was very loud and clear and reached well beyond the limits of a single support forum. My thanks to all of you too and the invaluable discussions along the way. All The Best!
     
  10. kennyboy

    kennyboy Registered Member

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    I'd like to 2nd the thanks by Easter to the Leapfrog Team. It is indeed a remarkable program.

    The only time I have been in trouble with it has been when installing XP in a new snapshot, and the install went wrong. That left me with an unbootable system, and no way of getting to the FDR screen to change to a working snapshot.
    Imaging to the rescue of course but gave me a scare at the time.

    Imagine not having a boot disk then!! :eek:
     
  11. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    I bought Image Backup first, because that's a MUST and then I bought FDISR to get immediate system recovery, but that is pure luxury.
    If you don't care about immediate system recovery, you don't need FDISR, just an Image Backup software.
    Working without Image Backup is stupid and means you have no respect for your personal data. In other words you are gambling with your data as if nothing will happen to your computer. My brother thinks like that.

    Of course when you start using FDISR, you don't need Image Backup that much anymore, but that is a logical consequence and like any luxury, you will miss it very much, when you have to work without FDISR.
    If I ever have to choose between ATI and FDISR, I ditch FDISR without hesitation.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2007
  12. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    I have to agree Erik. FDISR is fantastic, but nothing like an image to save you from what I did to myself.
     
  13. screamer

    screamer Registered Member

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    I'm 100% in agreement here. Imaging & FD-ISR go together like two peas in a pod.
    I recently had to purchase another copy of FD-ISR (BootBack) for installation on my NAS box (Dell Deminsion 8200 nLited. Now all I need is a decent imaging app for this box.

    Office 1 FD-ISR / ATI / 2 ext hdd
    Office 2 (wifes box for games / nothing)
    Office 3 FD-ISR / ATI 1 ext hdd
    NAS_Server FD-ISR / ?? still looking / 2 ext hdd
    NA daughters box = too screwed up to even mess with ;)

    ...screamer
     
  14. flinchlock

    flinchlock Registered Member

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  15. screamer

    screamer Registered Member

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  16. flinchlock

    flinchlock Registered Member

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    I am also thing about did buy this product especially with the discount. Here is part of my reason why...

    http://www.drive-backup.com/corporate/professional/

    Mike
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2007
  17. flinchlock

    flinchlock Registered Member

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    Last edited: May 25, 2007
  18. screamer

    screamer Registered Member

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    hmmm, looks interesting: anyone else used this app for imaging?

    ...screamer
     
  19. flinchlock

    flinchlock Registered Member

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    UPDATE: I now understand your question, that 50% 70% link also applies to all? their products... I bought Drive Backup, just like EASTER.

    There is a post by EASTER.2010, and he is so very happy with this product (Pro version), I think he was probably crying with joy when he posted his results... no joke!

    Let me find that link... I will be back... https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=1011213&postcount=7

    From a PM to me, May 24th, 2007
    Mike
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2007
  20. screamer

    screamer Registered Member

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    I D/L'd the trial version of Drive BackUp 8.5.1?

    Installed it, did a BU to ext hdd. Took 8m for 6GB. Tried to restore: After OK'ing, it said 1) close any open programs on C: 2) restart machine 3) dismiss or whatever operation.

    I chose Re-Start. Box shut down and re-started, Drive BackUp screen appeared, said press any key to continue, I did, stayed that way for 60secs. And box re-started again, into Windows. I didn't notice any progress bars or anything moving while in Drive BackUp screen. In fact, I can't find any record in the app that it did actually re-store the drive??

    What do you guys see during a re-store?

    ...screamer
     
  21. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    If you zero your harddisk, you will know for sure if it has done something or not. :)
    ATI and SP show at least something that moves during the restoration, like processing bar, time-counter, %-counter, ...
     
  22. EASTER.2010

    EASTER.2010 Guest

    You are quite right Mike. Hello again everyone. I am completely beside myself. I always knew from the older versions of PARAGON that they were good, but have a peep for yourselve as referenced above to their latest improvements. I am most satisfied now with this choice. I been at this consistently for 2 days and nights unending, Imaging and Restoring, several times over again & again. The Pro version is the Da Bomb! for me. I am completely finished with anymore Personal Versions, it's obvious to me by now that they lack greatly compared to the Professional and IT versions when it comes to something as important as successful imaging & restore.

    This renews once again the faith i found in PARAGON some 3 years ago. As i post this i'm HOT! IMAGING this partition to another Hard Drive and those little gears just rotate without a single hesitation. No errors, no glitches, nothing but a pure image. One note: While i never been a big proponant of HOT imaging as opposed to Cold, i found no difference in the end results. That for me is a very big plus. I can finally trust HOT! Processing without the fear of something someplace going off balance or having to use a CD/DVD recovery environment to IMAGE away from an active system.

    PARAGON is incredibly quick and performs even basic partition jobs, formats etc. at an incredible pace. Time is no longer any issue for me in IMAGING either with Paragon, i'm not interested in any speed race but instead i favor most a steady but consistent and resonable length of time with perfect results each and everytime.

    Paragon Drive BackUp does for me what Paragon's Drive Copy couldn't. I can't explain the reasons why and i don't waste time trying to find out, and you don't have to. They have a variety of IMAGING solutions to choose from and it just takes finding that single ONE that does all you expect of it and more. LOL
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 26, 2007
  23. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    Easter,
    You are quoting the wrong person (ErikAlbert) again.
     
  24. EASTER.2010

    EASTER.2010 Guest

    EDITED:

    Thanks. Too much excitement going on here. :)
    Between your Boot-To-Restore, (PS) for me, and the FreezeStorage.arx with everything else dependable in FD-ISR snapshots/archives. Couple just those with all this IMAGING craze going on right now and i hardly can contain myself.
    Malware? Virus? What malware, what rootkit, what virus? Bad programs? What can any of those potential risks really do to your system even if any happens to bypass your front lines, which with me is HIPS, and in your case, AE? Answer: Natta, Nothing. :D
    We have too strong a SHIELD and plenty enough of them in place to block out completely the most frantic designed malware. Maybe they should look into ways to hijack our electrical current leading to our machines, they may have hope then, but i also use a SURGE protector. :D
     
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