FD-ISR errors with NIS 2009

Discussion in 'FirstDefense-ISR Forum' started by Karen76, Dec 11, 2008.

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  1. Karen76

    Karen76 Registered Member

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    My NOD32 license expires next month and, due to the numerous positive reports posted about Norton Internet Security 2009, I recently checked out the trial version on PCs running XP SP3 and Vista Home SP1. Creating/copying FD-ISR snapshots with NIS 2009 installed resulted in FD-ISR errors reported even when NIS was configured to exclude FD-ISR from scans and auto-protect. If I completely disabled NIS 2009's anti-virus auto-protect then I was able to create/copy snapshots without errors (similar to what I had to do when I had ProcessGuard on my PC).

    Are other FD-ISR users experiencing these same errors with NIS 2009 active? If so, is there any way to use FD-ISR without having to manually disable NIS before making/updating snapshots? Thanks in advance for any assistance.
     
  2. Longboard

    Longboard Registered Member

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    Ha:
    Was just about to install NIS 2009 :(
    Cant have conflicts with FDISR or out it goes.
    For the record never had an issue with NIS 2008 or other real time 'anti' apps
    What were the errors, can you show us?
    Some more info: VSS or RSS, what version of FDISR?

    Unless NIS has introduced some unlockable/uncopyable/unimageable files...
     
  3. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    What version of FDISR?
     
  4. Karen76

    Karen76 Registered Member

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    I have FD-ISR v3.21 build 205 on my XP SP3 PC and v3.31.233 on my Vista Home SP1 PC. Both are set to use VSS.

    Here's an example of one of the errors:

    Error - GHW Create File: the process can't access the file because it is being used by another process.
    Windows error number 32
    Error - Creating folder 'Program Files\Norton Internet Security\mui\16.0.0.125\14\01'
     
  5. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Yep, sure sounds like norton is protecting something. That's been an occasional problem with other security software.

    You could look in the log file and see if you can tell which file it is but that might not do you any good.

    Some programs do this and I am with Longboard on this, conflict with FDISR (or Sandboxie) and bye bye.

    Pete
     
  6. crofttk

    crofttk Registered Member

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    I'm running FD-ISR (was build 205 in the relevant timeframe, now I've got 233 - Thanks,Todd!) and NIS 2009.

    NIS 2009 does frequent "streaming" updates, I mean like in windows of several minutes. When I examined snapshot errors I found after installing NIS 2009, FD-ISR had problems with files deep within the Application Data folders for NIS. These files appeared to have most probably been AV signature updates although I can't tell you that definitively. Personally, it made enough sense to me that I didn't let it bother me. I have done snapshot updates which were brief during which I expect there happened not to be NIS streaming updates occurring and no snapshot errors occurred. I think it only happens when streaming updates occur while a snapshot is in progress. You should check this behavior yourself and decide for yourself of course. Perhaps anchoring of the right folders in the Application Data structure for NIS can eliminate the conflict.

    Zone Alarm Security Suite screwed me up so badly on my 6 machines and I am so happy with NIS 2009 (particularly, the significantly lower performance impact which Norton products had gotten a reputation for) on them that I'm not going to chuck NIS automatically. I'm proceeding with a "trust but verify" approach for the time being.
     
  7. crofttk

    crofttk Registered Member

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    Eh, perhaps "pulse" updates is the more correct term, not "streaming".
     
  8. Longboard

    Longboard Registered Member

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    I keep NIS 2008 set to manual updates only: 'control' issue and dont like any possible interruptions to other running apps.
    I've not had NIS errors with that set-up.
    AFAIK: NIS 2009 can be setup for manual control of updates.
    ( although this would go against the flow of current improvements )

    I remember when CyberHawk had issues with file copying secondary to "locked" files, that was resolved.
    :)
    :thumb:
    I think likely too
    :)

    @Karen: want to try with NIS LU set to manual only ??

    Hope Todd is watching
     
  9. Karen76

    Karen76 Registered Member

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    I'll pass on using an anti-virus program relying on manual updates. Also, I'm not convinced the conflict is due to NIS 2009 downloading updates while FD-ISR is working on a snapshot. I made numerous snapshots with NIS installed; short copy/updates and creating new snapshots which took much longer. The number of errors reported ran from two (the most common number) to dozens. A copy/update of a snapshot which only took 2-3 minutes to complete had over 50 errors while the creation of a new snapshot stored on an external hard drive which took around an hour to finish only had two errors.

    As a general rule, disabling NIS's auto-protect usually stopped the errors. However, one copy/update I ran on my Vista PC with auto-protect turned off still produced two errors.

    I used Acronis True Image to restore my PCs to their pre-NIS state. There's a lot I like about NIS 2009 (excluding the Norton toolbar in browsers and nag screen to set up a Norton online account), but FD-ISR is too important to me to live with any program which isn't fully compatible. I put up with a year of having to disable ProcessGuard when making FD-ISR snapshots on my XP PC (before dumping PG) and can't see doing the same again for an AV program, especially since that may not be a perfect solution.

    If Todd knows a way around this problem, I'd sure appreciate hearing it. In the meantime, I'm giving the combination of Avira AntiVir free and Online Armor a try.
     
  10. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    That should be trouble free. I use OA, and I Avira free on for a while, and there was no conflict.

    Pete
     
  11. Longboard

    Longboard Registered Member

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    @Karen
    :D We're all singing the same song

    There might be another option to try: I had issues with some FDISR copy/update errors in the past
    : ran check disc and fix which corrected the issues: there are a couple of tools here if you want to run some checks
    http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb457122.aspx
    ( eh : image first ;) jic )

    In view of my clean install, I'll stick fdisr in early, make a couple of snaps then give NIS a run in one of the snaps and report back.
     
  12. Birdman

    Birdman Registered Member

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    2 weeks ago, I emailed Todd regarding this issue with FD-ISR and NIS 2009.

    I had to fully uninstall FD-ISR, run CHKDSK and re-install FD-ISR in order to rid of the errors.

    Hopefully Todd can correct this issue because I'm really happy w/ NIS 2009 and have no intentions of dumping it.
     
  13. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Hope so, but remember FDISR is discontinued software, and technically not supported. If there was a major FDISR flaw, knowing Todd he'd probably try and fix it, but solve some new compatibility issue brought on by a new version of NIS. Well don't be too surprised if nothing happens.

    You may have to choose.
     
  14. crofttk

    crofttk Registered Member

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    In any event, I'm not seeing any errors since I moved up to Build 233 back on 12/1/08. I have both NIS 2009 and FD-ISR Build 233 installed on 3 desktops and 3 laptops, all XP Pro systems. I guess I HAVE reinstalled FD-ISR on all 6 machines, in a sense - but I've done no reformatting. I can't speak to Vista - so far, my resistance has not been futile.:)
     
  15. osip

    osip Registered Member

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    No issues here whatsoever with NIS 2009 and build 233...I always copy/update disconnected from the net and no defrags in the background.
     
  16. SourMilk

    SourMilk Registered Member

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    I use FDISR 1.73 on one of my machines with Norton 2009 Gaming Edition. I just disable auto-protect before snapshots, archiving, refreshing, etc. No errors occur. I had similar error problems with Avira until I stopped the "real time guard" running in the background.
    SourMilk out
     
  17. Karen76

    Karen76 Registered Member

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    Whether I'm suffering from masochism or what, I've been continuing to experiment with trying to get FD-ISR and NIS 2009 to work together without snapshot errors. I've uninstalled, reinstalled and tinkered with both programs to no avail.

    Since osip said he had no problems with FD-ISR/NIS 2009 making snapshots after disconnecting from the Internet, I thought I'd give that a try. Normally, both of my PCs are connected to the web all of the time by wireless cable modem.

    I rebooted into my Secondary Snapshot then replaced Avira AntiVir and Online Armor with NIS 2009. Next, I ran the NIS LiveUpdate, downloaded and installed over 20 MB of updates then rebooted.

    I copy/updated regular and archive snapshots after disconnecting from the Internet. These took less than two minutes to complete and no errors were reported. Great ... apparently the previous errors were associated with NIS's "pulse" updates ... but I wasn't sanguine about having to disconnect from the Internet every time I wanted to use FD-ISR. Then, reconnecting to the Internet and without disabling NIS's Auto-Protect or excluding FD-ISR from NIS's scans, I copy/updated these snapshots again: still no errors. Hmmm...

    Perhaps NIS 2009 never made any pulse updates during these brief periods so I ran another copy/update, this time also running a NIS LiveUpdate. This resulted in two big surprises: First, no FD-ISR errors were reported. Second, even though NIS's LiveUpdate recognized it had just checked for updates four minutes earlier, it downloaded and installed the same 20+ MB updates then told me to reboot the PC. o_O

    After rebooting again, I created an entirely new snapshot while connected to the Internet and while running NIS's LiveUpdate (no new updates were available). This took 1 hour 5 minutes to complete and 142 FD-ISR errors were reported (the Transfer Info window said there were 71 errors). Reviewing the activity log, the errors I examined were all the "Windows error number 32" "the process can't access the file because it is being used by another process" type.

    I deleted that snapshot then created another new one after disconnecting from the Internet. After an hour and three minutes, it completed with 130 errors. So much for disconnecting from the Internet solving the problem.

    I'm going to keep NIS 2009 in my Secondary Snapshot for a while for further experimentation but I'm thinking about renaming it as the Twilight Zone Snapshot. :cautious:

    I've never had any conflicts between FD-ISR and KIS, NOD32, Avast!, Avira or any other AV I've tried except for NIS 2009. I have to believe my FD-ISR errors are related to NIS's Auto-Protect yet today I copy/updated some snapshots without any errors and without disabling Auto-Protect while a few days ago I copied a snapshot on my Vista PC with Auto-Protect disabled and there were two errors. The lack of consistency makes identifying and correcting the problem a tad tricky. :rolleyes:
     
  18. osip

    osip Registered Member

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    This gives me the impression you have some other problem not necessarily related to FD-ISR.
     
  19. Karen76

    Karen76 Registered Member

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    I don't think so. You reached that "impression" because one NIS update apparently didn't install correctly? o_O This in spite of the fact NIS never asked me to reboot after the first 20 MB update following initial installation (which I did on my own volition)?

    I'm having snapshot errors with FD-ISR and NIS 2009 (and only when NIS 2009 is installed) on two very different PCs, one running XP SP3 and the other Vista SP1. I've repeatedly installed, uninstalled, reinstalled and updated NIS on both PCs (along with uninstalling then reinstalling FD-ISR). After initial installation, sometimes NIS 2009 asks for the PC to be rebooted following the first LiveUpdate, sometimes it does not; I reboot in either event.

    Other posters in this thread also reported snapshot errors related to NIS 2009. This isn't just happening to me and only on one PC. You're the person who always disconnects his PC from the Internet before making FD-ISR snapshots. I didn't jump to any conclusion about your PC being faulty merely because you routinely engage in a FD-ISR-related practice I regard as bizarre. The connection between copying/creating a FD-ISR snapshot and disconnecting from the web eludes me. Until I read your post, I'd made hundreds of successful FD-ISR snapshots on multiple PCs and never remotely imagined disconnecting from the Internet first.

    SourMilk experienced errors with Avira and FD-ISR. Avira works fine on my PCs without stopping AntiVir's "real time guard" and no conflicts with FD-ISR. Different PCs can have the same software installed and encounter very different results. I genuinely want NIS 2009 to work on my PCs (especially my XP PC), without FD-ISR snapshot errors and without having to disconnect from the Internet, disable NIS's Auto-Protect or hold a lucky rabbit's foot. If a program as temperamental as KIS is compatible with FD-ISR without jumping through any hoops then surely NIS 2009 should be. :)
     
  20. osip

    osip Registered Member

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    Not so bizarre as you think...I have only mobile connection which means I start up my pc disconnected...
    Well, that' s the weird thing...

    I only (during some 5-6 weeks) only once been prompted to reboot after update, and that was when the prog updated itself from .25 to .33...

    So, you re telling you got this problem after the 20MB+ update after reboot, connected or disconnected, but no problems before the update ?
     
  21. Karen76

    Karen76 Registered Member

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    No, I'm not saying that. After installing any new anti-virus program, the first thing I do is have the AV update to the current signatures. Is there anyone who actually doesn't do this?

    Since I immediately ran NIS 2009's LiveUpdate after installing the program, all of my FD-ISR snapshots were made after that step. I'm not suggesting there's any connection between this update and the snapshot errors. I only mentioned the fact I promptly run a LiveUpdate after installation so someone doesn't accuse me of forgetting that prudent step. I also thought it very peculiar that, on one occasion, NIS downloaded/installed the same 20+ MB update it had ostensibly installed four minutes earlier.

    What baffles me about this situation is the lack of consistency. When I had ProcessGuard installed on my XP PC, it was necessary to disable PG before using FD-ISR or errors would result. I believe all PG/FD-ISR users experienced this; I certainly read about it enough times on this board years ago. If NIS 2009's Auto-Protect was the culprit then I could accept that. However, today I made three consecutive copy/updates without errors and without disabling NIS's Auto-Protect. Then I created two new snapshots with 100+ errors each with Auto-Protect engaged. Once on my Vista PC, I ran a copy/update with Auto-Protect disabled yet there were two snapshot errors.

    NIS's so-called "pulse" updates don't seem to be the cause and neither does being connected to the Internet. I wish it was just NIS's Auto-Protect keeping FD-ISR from accessing some files like PG does but that's evidently not the problem, or, at least, all of the problem. I'm simply baffled. Based on so many positive reviews, I really wanted to give NIS 2009 a thorough evaluation. But none of my software is as important to me as FD-ISR (it being discontinued from sale to the public constitutes a Crime Against Humanity IMO) so if NIS isn't compatible with FD-ISR on my PCs then I'm out of luck. :'(
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2008
  22. osip

    osip Registered Member

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    Ok, ,sorry I cannot solve your problem...I suspect some other conflicting app. All I'm saying is that I do not have these problems. For your info I run additionally on this NIS-FDISR XP pro sp3 setup : Keyscrambler, sandboxie, admuncher,mbam(on demand)...
     
  23. crofttk

    crofttk Registered Member

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    Karen, have you tried the new NortonCommunity forums? Issues are posted on FD-ISR and PerfectDisk - I haven't been there in a month or so and can't spare the time right now, so I'm not up to speed on the forum, may be worth a shot.

    Hope this isn't TOS or etiquette violation - :rolleyes: http://community.norton.com/norton/

    I won't disagree with anyone's giving priority to FD-ISR over NIS but you could get lucky and find someone who has the problem in the exact way you have and worked it out.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2008
  24. pandlouk

    pandlouk Registered Member

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    Hi Karen,

    do you have perfectdisk 2008 installed too? There is an incompatibility between NIS 2009 and pd 2008 drivers (it cannot perform offline defrags). I had the same type off errors with FD-ISR, until I installed the hotfix of pd2008; after that I have not seen any errors with FD-ISR.

    Panagiotis
     
  25. crofttk

    crofttk Registered Member

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    Lucky you, I still can't get PD2008 to do my non-system partitions offline, defrags the system drive offline fine - and this is with the latest builds of PD2008, NIS 2009, and FD-ISR, yet I'm not having the FD-ISR snapshot errors.

    Anyways, I would "bet" this won't be an issue in the next version of PD.:ninja:
     
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