Fatal Excetion OE and OD

NOD32 Antivirus System information
Virus signature database version: 1.835 (20040806)
Dated: Friday, August 06, 2004
Virus signature database build: 4737

Information on other scanner support parts
Advanced heuristics module version: 1.008 (20040804)
Advanced heuristics module build: 1057
Internet filter version: 1.001 (20031104)
Internet filter build: 1012
Archive support module version: 1.018 (20040727)
Archive support module build version: 1093

Information on installed components
NOD32 For Windows 95/98/ME - Base
Version: 2.000.9
NOD32 for Windows 95/98/ME - Standard component
Version: 2.000.9
NOD32 For Windows 95/98/ME - Internet support
Version: 2.000.9

Operating system information
Platform: Windows 98
Version: 4.10.2222 A
Version of common control components: 5.81.4916
RAM: 248 MB
Processor: x86 Family 6 Model 11 Stepping 1

Misc. info and problem description:

1. Uninstalled PC-Cillin 2000 as scan engine no longer supports Trend Micros new pattern file system.
2. Installed Spbyot S&D beta version 1.3.1 with TeaTimer enabled (This was done as I am a helpter at Net-Integration and participate in the beta tests.)
3. Installed Nod32 described above
4. Power management is set to always on for desktop with monitor and harddrive to be shut down after 1 hour of the system being idled.

When I go to awaken the computer I am always confronted with the same blue screen of death:

Fatal exception OE at 0167:BFF9DFF current application will be shut down. Press any key to continue.
Fatal exception OD at 0028:C000028EA in VXD VMM(01)+000018EA application will be terminated. Press any key to continue.
At this point the sytem is non-responsive and I have to force a restart.

System boots fine and appears to operate fine otherwise.
With the exception that at system start I used to have 96% system resources free and now Windows always shows only 80% free. However, a check of running processes shows nothing running that wasn't before.
The only TSR's at startup are:
System sound volume control
Neoworx Neowatch firewall
Trojan Hunter Guard
Adaptec Direct CD and Create CD
Nod32 antivirus system
Late edit: Just realized I left off the TeaTimer in this list.

This only began after installing Nod32

 

See the following link that will give you further information on that error:

http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/IIS/6/all/techref/en-us/iisRG_MSG_6.mspx

and more info here:

http://www.computing.net/windows95/wwwboard/forum/21519.html

Hope this helps...

Cheers

 

Thanks for the links but those are of no help.

While the OE error would appear to be the one about

That doesn't help me to identify what was trying to be initialized during the session while the system is idled and nothing is running except the TSRs noted.

The second link seems to apply to QuickTime on a Win3.1 system.
This is not related to QuickTime.

This would appear to me to be related to a failure in Nod32 being able to initiate one of it's scheduled tasks.

There are only two scheduled tasks.
1. To autocheck for updates at 17:00 hours if connected to the net and if not to try again in 24 hours.
2. To do log maintenance of removing logs older than 30 days at 3:00am. I'd disabled the log autodefrag as I know TeaTimer will cause defrag to restart over and over if TeaTimer is not exited first.

 

Try uninstalling Direct CD and Create CD, I have seen problems with this in the past...

Cheers

 

No offense intended:

But why would software I've had installed for five years without problem and which is not trying to initialize (start up) while the system is idled suddenly be causing an increase in system resource usage at startup and be causing an initialization error when the system is idled?

 

No offence taken, I was just saying that we have seen problems associated with this software in the past, and being that I have NOT seen your system and nor do I know how long you have had your software, this would be a start, wouldn't you think...

Have you cleaned the registry of PC-Cillin 2000?

You do not state which operating system you are using, other than Nod32 listing "for Windows 95/98/ME - Standard component"

Have you tried doing a search on Google as I did last night, took 2 seconds, to see if anyone out there has similar problems with those error messages and what the solutions were? Such as here:

http://www.google.com.au/search?q=0167:BFF9DFF&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&meta=

and here:

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=0167:BFF9DFFF&spell=1

Cheers

 

Re: Fatal Exception OE and OD

I'll try to provide you with all the information I know. This is a very basic barebones system.

1. This problem did not exist for the past several years and the installation of all the same software on two different boxes.

2. Prior to 08.06.04 when I uninstalled PC-Cillin and installed Nod32 for the reason explained in my original post this problem did not exist (OE/OD errors) nor the available resource change I mentioned.

3. The current software and configuration prior to the removal of PC-Cillin and installation of NOD32 has been consistent for the last three years and problem free on the same box with no conflicts including the installation of SpybotS&D/TeaTimer, SpywareBlaster and IESpyAds for at least the last four months, AdAware 6 Build 181 which I've used for a few years now, and/or the installation or removal of other minor software programs or applications or the downloading and running of tools I've downloaded to review as part of my helping at Net-Integration such as killbox, AboutBuster or things of that nature. In fact I'm rather meticulas about maintaining a bare bones sytems and not installing and uninstalling much as I only install and maintain those things I feel I absolutely must have. Even then those are rather commercial programs such as WordPerfect, MSOffice97 with Excel, Access, etc. Lotus, PaintShopPro and things of that nature which have been installed on this system for years now. But all of those are on-demand and nothing is autoloaded except the things originally noted in my first post.

4. All programs function normally during normal operation without error.

5. Windows 98SE was a Clean install using the Full OEM CD which I installed myself on a harddrive I fdisked and formatted personally, at time of purchase of the box about 3 years ago now I think.
System information shows this as Windows 98SE Full OEM CD /T:C:\WININST0.400 /SrcDir=E:\WIN98 /IZ /IS /IQ /IT /II /NR /II /C /U:xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

6. The motherboard and BIOS setup etc were professionally installed and configured. Nothing has been changed by me with regard to that.

7. Windows-managed swap file on drive C (2218MB free) is handled by the default settings as are any virtual memory settings.

8. Available space on drive C: (FAT32) is roughly a little more than 1/2 the available space on the 5Gb Hard drive.

9. The box is a 1.0 Ghz Intel Celeron Processor
FIC FR33E Motherboard
128MB SDRAM
248MB RAM which is all this motherboard will allow as far as I know and according to the professionals who built the box (Columbus MicroCenter). I wanted to increase the RAM at time of purchase beyond the 248 as I'd just installed new RAM in the old box and wanted to transfer it but was told there was no room for it in the new box but not because of there being a noncompatability issue with the sticks. This barebones system just didn't allow for any more according to what I was told.
Note: The reason for the new box was that the old box had an integrated audio/video as well and the integrated video/audio was shot. The new box also has Integrated video, audio and ethernet (10/100 N/C) which was not really my first choice but a matter of economics, but no problems with any of those as far as I know. I did update the video driver I think it was during a check of the Windows updates/Critical udpates but otherwise have only installed the windows Critical Updates aside from that to keep them current. (After updating the driver there were no problems and that was done at least one or two months ago and long before this problem arose.) I refer to a "new" box just for the sake of clarity but this box and OS installation is at least 3 or 4 years old now but well-maintained.

6. The ethernet drivers have never been loaded as I don't use the ethernet. There is no form of shared networking. I use an external modem for dialup internet connection.

7. When viewing "My Computer" or System Information for device management conflicts or errors the only thing now or in the past being reported is the missing/uninstalled ethernet drivers. No other problems or conflicts are indicated.

8. The 5Gb harddrive is a Fujitsu IDE primary. There is no slave drive.
Note: thorough scandiscs and disk defragmentation never report any problems or things that need fixing. I run scandisc and disk defrag at least monthly (more frequently if I've been doing a lot of moving around or deleting of temp files or personal files) and always after a software uninstall or new install of software such as when I uninstalled PC-Cillin and then installed Nod32. No problems were encountered or corrected in that process.

9. The CD-R-RW and CD-ROM drives along with the hard drive were transferred from the previous machine into this box at the time of purchase again about 3 or 4 years ago and to be honest I forget their make and models now.

10. There is one 3.5" drive a: standard but it's never used and only noted here for the sake of completeness in the info.

11. Using pv163 reg-cleaner and a manual review of the registry for PC-Cillin reveals no remanants of PC-Cillin and no "green" cleanable registry entries. Temp files, recent documents and all of that type of thing and MRU's are frequnetly cleaned using the reg-cleaner or are done automatically at startup by window washer.

12. Window Washer runs and terminates at startup to ensure internet files, window tracks, index.dats temp folders and cookies etc are washed and bleached.

13. After uninstall of PC-Cillin the autoexec.bat has no visible entries at all and the two for PC-Cillin that did exist were removed automatically during the uninstall when the system automatically reconfigured itself when windows rebooted.
Note: There used to be two entries in the autoexecbat for PC-Cillin but at this time I couldn't tell you what those command lines were other than I believe they were parameters for a virus check which was performed on the memory and boot areas and directories c:\ and c:\windows between the automatic system checking of the DMA pool verification and prior to windows loading.

14. In this regard the only other noted change was that prior to removal of PC-Cillin on any system restart the BIOS display at startup would show the Celeron Processor Info and the Memory SDRAM/DRAM info. Now that only is displayed after a forced/restart. However, memory checks show no problems in that area when "My Computer" or System Information is reviewed. It does still display the autochecks for the installed drives. After a forced restart the BIOS does display a running memory check at startup that has no errors.

15. I see no evidence of PC-Cillin in any of the system configuration files viewable via sysedit such as win.ini, config.sys, sys.ini etc. Nor any readily noticable changes in those files with the exception of the previously mentioned autoexec.bat changes.

16. I have manually changed nothing in any of the system configuration, ini files, etc.

17. Nod32 was installed using the default installation settings. The only thing I changed was the schedule information to set it up as described in my first post and the deletion of scheduled tasks aside from those that I didn't want when it comes to Nod32.

18. I'm somewhat hesitant to uninstall the Adaptec software as you suggested as it's never been a problem and all purchased software downloaded from the net, windows patches, etc is stored on either CD-Rs or CD-R-Ws and other critical data is all stored or backed up onto those CDs as well as critical data such as critical financial information, etc. that I access or write to a CD-R-RW daily.

19. As far as personal troubleshooting I haven't done a whole lot except to check the BIOS/CMOS settings against the manufacturers recommendations to see if those had been changed. (I changed nothing.) I didn't note any changes there from the original purchase setup. This was done when I noticed the memory and processor info not being displayed as it had been prior.
When this problem occured I did try uninstalling SpybotS&D and the TeaTimer to remove the beta version and reinstalled both back to their original SpybotS&D Version 1.3 setup/configuration as I had them prior to when the problem began. This had no effect on the problem as I described it so I went ahead and re-installed the beta version after having been reassured by Eagle1 that this should not be the source of my problem and especially since it had been no problem prior to the removal of PC-Cillin.

20. I have checked the windows Device Manager and System Info to see if they reported any problems or conflicts. They don't with the exception of the missing ethernet driver previously mentioned. But that I've been aware of ever since I first installed the OS 3 or 4 years ago and I'm well aware it was never installed as there is no ethernet setup that's been done.

21. I did try uninstalling and re-installing Nod32 with the default setup installaion values but it had no effect on the originally reported problems.

22. I have not tried uninstalling Nod32 and re-installing PC-Cillin to see if that would resolve the problem because then I would have no updatable antivirus software.

23. I haven't tried many other changes at startup as this is a brand new problem. The only thing I have done is to disable now the programmable power management feature to have the harddrive shut down after being idle for an hour. (I left the monitor shut down after 1 hour in place.)Otherwise the system is set to "always on". I did this to see if the problem was found in the morning when I return to the computer after I end my pc usage for the evening. However the Nod32 task is scheduled to run at 3:00am and as it's almost 3:00am now it may be another 24 hours before I know if the problem still occurs with this change as the system will not have been idle long enough when the task tries to run. The OE/OD error ONLY occurs when the system has been idle. (Note hibernate or standby is not enabled as previously noted and never has been enabled ever.)

24. The OE/OD error ONLY happens AFTER the system had shutdown after being idle for an hour and is only discovered when I move the mouse to "wake" the system. It does not occur during normal operation of the computer.

25. Tonight when I stop using the system and let it go idle after making the only change above noted in #23 I will also disable the teatimer and see if the problem exists in the morning when I return to use the computer. However, as mentioned the system will have not been idle long enough to have shut down the monitor before the Nod32 task runs at 3:00am.

26. The bit about the 80% resources only being free now instead of the previous 96% I have no explanation for at all as nothing has been changed in the startup or running processes when viewed in HJT, Spybot S&D or MSCONFIG with the exception of their no longer being the entries for PC-Cillin and instead the two new entries for the Nod32 processes.

27. The Neoworx Neowatch firewall software I can try to disable for you from running at startup and leave diabled for a period of time if you desire me to but please note that it is a real PIA to try to uninstall as it tries to uninstall shared driver files in use by my other programs. In fact it is the reason I did not just upgrade PC-Cillin which only comes now with it's own firewall. I wanted a standalone antivirus program that didn't come bundled with a firewall to avoid having to uninstall the existing firewall software. The fact that it always has passed with flying colors all security checks from security space and other similar security sites kind of influenced also my desire to not deal with the real hassle of trying to remove it and replace it with another firewall.

With the exception of having getting nailed back in late May by the MK:MSISTORE vulnerability which brought me to TomCoyote and Net-Integration before MS released their patches is the only problem I've ever had when it comes to malware, spyware/adware, trojans or viruses. So until my PC-Cillin scan engine went out of date at the end of July I had no real need to change security (ie firewall/antivirus) software operating from the basis of "it ain't broke so why fix it" except for keeping Critical updates and other basic preventions in place and up to date.

I hope this isn't overkill but I don't know what other information you need or what else you want me to do.

If I absolutely have to as a test for you , I will uninstall the Adaptec software to see if it and Nod32 have a conflict but with protest for the reasons previously mentioned and because of the fact that prior to the installation of Nod32 this software has not been a problem. In fact there were no problems at all until I uninstalled PC-Cillin and installed Nod32.

 

T-Zero, really good post, from what I have just read in a MS Knowledge base artical:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=/support/windows/topics/errormsg/kbfe0d.asp

A Fatal Exception 0D is an error message that is most commonly found, but not limited to, out dated or damaged video display adapter drivers and out dated multimedia software...

The other article I read here:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;187214

refers to CD Creator problem - similar error code.

Let us know how you go.

Hope this helps...

Cheers

 

Ok. Everything was working fine when I last posted except for the decreased resources which has remained constant.
The Nod32 scheduled taks ran fine while I was still here posting at 3am.
I made the changes noted with regard to disabling the hdd no longer being shut down when the system idels.
I went to bed.
I awoke, reawakened the computer had the same blue screen errors.
Read your post.
Checked the first link. The referenced pdr file is neither missing nor corrupted.
Read the second post. I have no Corel CD software installed. My error also seemed to be related to the vmm vxd which I think is multimedia related so you do seem to be on the right track here. So! I went to windows update and had it do a scan. This time it updated the VIA audio driver rather than the VIA video driver.

Only problem is...
Now I have NO SOUND at all PLUS I still have the same problems as before.

Also what I fail to grasp here is why/how can the original problems have been being caused by outdated multimedia software if there were NO PROBLEMS at all with any of this stuff untill I uninstalled PC-Cillin and installed Nod32. What would either of those two things have to do with multimedia or video?? Everything worked perfect until I did that uninstall and new install of the antivirus software.

 

Ok. I have sound back.
I used the motherboard install CD and uninstalled and re-installed the VIA audio drivers to undo the windows update changes made this morning.

Other than this snafu things appear to be back to the same status quo as when I originally posted.

Do you have specific instructions you wish to provide on what you want me to do or to try based on all of the information I've provided?

This would appear to be the manufacturer.
http://www.viaarena.com/?PageID=69
VIA AC97 is how windows update identified their update. Also after reinstalliing from the motherboard driver CD when I go to Device Manager this seems to be the one that was also reinstalled.
The Device Manager driver information states for:
C:\Windows\System\Reinst~\PCI#VE~2\viaudio.sys
VIA Technologies, Inc. 8-10-2001.
File version 5.12.01.3200 built by WinDDK
C:\Windows\System\VMM32.VXD (ntkern.vxd)
no info available
C:\Windows\System\MMDEBLDR.VXD
Microsoft Corporation
File version 4.10.1998
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\DRIVERS\VIAUDIO.SYS
Via Technologies Inc
File version: 5.12.01.3200 build by WinDDK

I think this is where the above link refers one:
http://www.viaarena.com/?PageID=328

 

By the way... I failed to mention I do appreciate your help.
I'm just hesitant to replace these files or uninsall or install anything new at this point without some guidance.

Thanks!

Late edit:

I imagine it would be good for you to have this info also.
In an earlier thread I'd mentioned I updated the VIA video driver via windows update. The one udpated today that knocked out my sound was the audio driver. Both drivers at windows had July 2001 update dates. (Generally I only do the critical updates and never get other updates from MS for the reason I ran into today which is why it took until now to do the July2001 driver update.LOL After looking at the MS info it seemed compatible as it matched what I had installed. Who knew? LOL) When I used the motherboard CD to uninstall the audio driver that knocked out my sound today that process also removed the previously updated video driver I had done from windows update as well. So all audio/video drivers now are the original ones from the original motherboard install cd.

I hope that's not too confusing and makes sense.

Oh and to clarify

What I mean is, if the drivers installed were/are compatible with the older software that was being used at the time why would those drivers now be causing a problem since the media (Adaptec) specifically that you mentioned wasn't updated either? Old stuff using old stuff should be fine I'd think. LOL
Unless Nod needed something or updated something??
And why would the error only occur while the system was idled down and none of the programs were actually being used?
To me that seems like maybe it's a video issue or power management issue? You know, that when the system tries to turn off the monitor that sets something off?
When I actually use the programs I don't get any errors and they still work fine.
I'm so confused.

 

Sorry to bug you...

Just wanted to mention since those changes were made today...
I'll also disable teatimer.
Then see if in the morning when I wake the computer if I'm still getting the blue screen error after having made these driver uninstalls/installs today or if the error changes.
I'll let you know what happens.

 

1. Disabled TeaTimer and restarted system
2. Uninstalled/reinstalled motherboard drivers and restarted system
3. used system as usual and restarted system
4. allowed system to idle and monitor to be shut off
5. re-awakened computer
6. No blue screen of death
7. Re-Enabled TeaTimer and restarted system
8. used system as usual and restarted system
9. allowed system to idle and monitor to be shut off
10. re-awakened computer
11. Blue screen of death -- exact same errors -- forced restart
12. Disabled TeaTimer and restarted system
13. allowed system to idle and monitor to be shut off
14. re-awakened computer
15. No blue screen of death

 

Another good post T-Zero, it appears as you have found through logical step by step elimination, that there seems to be a conflict with tea-timer.

Just for the sake of things can you see if there is a newer version of your on-board video driver, to see if this alleviates the problem altogether...

Cheers

 

With help from Eagle1 we were able to identify the motherboard chipset and download the updated driver.

1. Installed the updated motherboard driver.
2. Rebooted
3. Re-Enabled TeaTimer
4. Used the system as usual
5. Restarted
6. Allowed system to idle and shut off the monitor
7. Re-awakend computer
8. Blue screen of death -- exact same errors -- forced restart
9. MSCONFIG disabled both Nod32 entries, left TeaTimer enabled
10. Restarted computer
11. Allowed system to idle and shut off monitor
12. Blue screen of death -- exact same errors -- forced restart
13. MSCONFIG re-enabled Nod32, disabled TeaTimer
14. Restarted computer

and this is where I'm at now. On the upside, since updating the video driver I do seem to boot up slightly faster and page refresh when switching between windows while multitasking has definitely improved, but otherwise it had no effect at all with the TeaTimer and blue screen of death.

 

So am I right in what I believe I have read, that it comes down to a sole problem with Tea Timer?

If this is the case, they have a forum here:

http://forums.net-integration.net/

They may have some further suggestions...

Hope this helps...

Cheers

 

I'd posted here first as Eagle1 at Net-Integration had requested I open a thread here. After you and I had been posting for a while he had requested I begin another thread in the S&D forum at N-I. I did so on the 11th and linked them to this thread at Wilders where you've been assisting me.

Here is the topic thread at Net-Integration.
http://forums.net-integration.net/index.php?act=ST&f=28&t=21141

I appreciate your help Blackspear. And all the help and attention people have giving to this.

At this point I honestly don't have any more idea now than I did before. It would seem to me that it's something to do with TeaTimer as when it is enabled when the system idles is the only time the problem occurs, but...

I think what everyone seems to be saying is that it seems to be a memory issue like maybe the RAM has gone bad?

To be honest -- I no longer have a clue.

If you would rather close this thread at Wilders since I was requested to open one at Net-Integration I would understand. It doesn't really seem to be a Nod32 problem.

Thanks for the assistance. I appreciate all the time and information you've provided.

 

If your system was brought into one of my shops, we would place in a cheap video card and disable the on-board video, wait for it to go into hibernation. This due to the error message that points to a video driver problem.

If this didn't work we would then try swapping out the RAM, and again wait for it to go into hibernation. One of the two should fix your problem…

Do you have a local computer shop that you can ask then to do what I have advised above?

Hope this help...

Cheers

 

The standby or hibernate mode is not enabled as previously mentioned. The system is set to "always on", unless you mean having the monitor set to shut off after 1 hour of idle time is synonymous with "hibernate".

While I'm still having a hard time figuring out how a Resident ( TSR on 98 ) module with nothing but a System Tray Icon can affect video, I do think we may be onto something however regarding the onboard video (or RAM) both on your part and from comments made at Net-Integration.

Since my last post I have discovered the following:

After having opened and cleaned the box and checked the seatings for the sticks to see if they were loose, I disabled the default setting in Nod32 set up for the graphics setting control panel interface "Enable Windows Graphics Mode" so that it would use just the "plain Jane" Nod32 skin for it's menu/control panel interface rather than Nods customized colors and logos etc. I then left TeaTimer and all other TSRs enabled. Restarted the system. Then let it idle and shut off the monitor. When I went to wake up the monitor there was NO blue screen of death.

Then I re-enabled the Nod setting "Enable Windows Graphics Mode", left all TSRs enabled, restarted the computer, went to bed and let the system idle and shutdown the monitor. When I woke up this morning and went to wake up the monitor the blue screen of death errors were back.

This morning I've disabled again the "Enable Windows Graphics Mode" in Nod32. I haven't been able yet to restart the system and let it idle again to see if once more with this combination of that setting disabled and all other resident items enabled if the blue screen error has gone away again. Once I'm able to test that again I'll let you know the results.

Yes. But for a hefty fee.

 

Ok ignore this:

Disabling "Enable Windows Graphics Mode" in Nod32 had no effect. Evidently the reason I did not get the blue screens previously was because I woke up the monitor too soon after it had been shut down.

The evidence remains that the ONLY TIME I get the blue screen error when the system has idled and the monitor has shut off is when TeaTimer is enabled. No matter what other TSR is disabled, if the TeaTimer is enabled when the system idles and shuts off the monitor I get the blue screen error.

 

Do you have a friend that can loan you a video card so you can install it (don't forget to disable the on-board video) and see if that eliminates the problem, that would either rule out your on-board video or prove it to be the culprit.

The other thing you can do, is if you have 2 or more sticks of RAM in your system, pull them all out, replace ONE only stick and try to force the BSOD.

Let me know how you go...

Cheers

 

Hi Blackspear.

Thank you again for your advise.

Sorry for taking so long to respond again but in the Net-Integration thread I was being asked to test somethings to see if this was related to the Win98 power management wonkyness issues. It doesn't appear to be.

Anyway, rather than duplicate the information again here if you wouldn't mind looking at my post from today in that thread I'd appreciate it as it relates to Nod32. I'm having you look there so you can see my latest post at Net-Integration in the context of what preceeded it.

http://forums.net-integration.net/index.php?act=ST&f=28&t=21141&st=30#entry97259

 

Hi T-Zero, I had a read of your posts and replies at net-integration. I still would head down the video path first, then RAM.

You can download a FREE File Monitor tool here:

http://www.sysinternals.com/ntw2k/source/filemon.shtml

This may shed some light as to what processes are running with your system...

Unfortunately I'm running out of ideas until we cam rule out the above...

Cheers

 

Hi again.

Thanks for checking that thread. However, have you read the current information from today? I'm sorry but this really does not seem like a power management or a video/memory issue to me but a conflict with Teatimer and Nod32 which also would seem reasonable since the problem never started until Nod was installed.

Filemon I've used before but only with a filter for something very specific we were looking for at the time. Is there a particular filter I should use this time?
Should I just launch it and let it run when I go to bed?

 

I have both running on 100+ PC's without a problem, though we are not turning off the monitor in the manner you are. I'll test a machine tonight and see what happens...

Cheers